M3 vs Bolt Production Numbers

[viktorleon]

I was thinking about how Tesla is getting blasted on their M3 production ramp and how their producing +-2700 cars per week seems minimal for a mass production vehicle, but what about the Bolt?

The bolt has sold +-28,000 units in the 1.5 years it's been on the market and the M3 +-18,000 in the last what, 5 months? I understand that Chevy has been around for some time now, but given Tesla's age, they're doing pretty darn good. Yes, Chevy beat Tesla to an "affordable" option but I don't get the whole production talk.

Tesla is/should be easily surpassing Chevy in production numbers, correct? I'm I making sense here?

It just sucks that Tesla is getting all this negative publicity over production when it seems that they're easily beating competitors.

Correct me if I'm wrong. This has been bugging me these past few days. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Glamisduner]

I think allot of people bought late last year because they thought the tax incentive was going away and they wanted an afordable electric car.

It's also much easier to go to a dealership and drive home in a new car than it is to sign up, pay $1000 and wait for 1 year or two for a model 3. Model 3 will far surpass the bolt once they are more readily produced and available.

Bolt is a decent car though, other than the seats it was pretty good for the money. It sure isn't as nice as the model 3 in the looks or technology department though.

I feel like the bolt was really just made to get carbon credits, according to Chevy they are losing money selling them too (those carbon credits are invaluable), but they don't have a huge incentive to produce a ton of them.

 

[bro1999]

I was thinking about how Tesla is getting blasted on their M3 production ramp and how their producing +-2700 cars per week seems minimal for a mass production vehicle, but what about the Bolt?

The bolt has sold +-28,000 units in the 1.5 years it's been on the market and the M3 +-18,000 in the last what, 5 months? I understand that Chevy has been around for some time now, but given Tesla's age, they're doing pretty darn good. Yes, Chevy beat Tesla to an "affordable" option but I don't get the whole production talk.

Tesla is/should be easily surpassing Chevy in production numbers, correct? I'm I making sense here?

It just sucks that Tesla is getting all this negative publicity over production when it seems that they're easily beating competitors.

Correct me if I'm wrong. This has been bugging me these past few days. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

It's pretty simple.
GM: Ran the Bolt through proper testing (yes, there is that HV battery low voltage issue with some Bolts), soft tooling phase with pre-production units, no outlandish sales goals (or any sales goal promises actually) then finally a slow ramp with the production cars.

Tesla: Bombastic unveiling party for the "$35k" Model 3, promises of 200k cars in 2017. Then we've seen the Model 3 go through various stages of production hell, missed targets, delayed deliveries, build quality issues, etc, etc

Much of Tesla's negative press has been because of self-inflicted wounds. The company's CEO's lips flap faster than the company can crank out cars.

 

[viktorleon]

I feel like the bolt was really just made to get carbon credits, according to Chevy they are losing money selling them too (those carbon credits are invaluable), but they don't have a huge incentive to produce a ton of them.

Completely agree with you here. The same goes for other manufacturers. I know the Prius wasn't making Toyota much money until recently, but they jumped on board and began production to get those credits.

 

[viktorleon]

Much of Tesla's negative press has been because of self-inflicted wounds. The company's CEO's lips flap faster than the company can crank out cars.

YES!! You hit the nail right on the head with this. It's all broken promises... I'm used to them by now lol.

 

[insaneoctane]

The Model 3 is highly desired with 400K+ pre-orders. The Bolt, much less. GM is capable of ramping up quicker, but without much demand and (maybe) losing money on each car, why? Tesla has far more need to ramp quickly, but less experience and, thus, far more aggressive goals. I'd rather have Tesla's problems with the Model 3 than GM's problems with the Bolt. I could have bought a Bolt for less money and I would be driving it now, yet there is not a Bolt in my garage.... There is an HPWC waiting for a mate instead.

 

[seattlite2004]

Completely agree with you here. The same goes for other manufacturers. I know the Prius wasn't making Toyota much money until recently, but they jumped on board and began production to get those credits.

Looks like those credits are pretty valuable for Elon also: Tesla Goes From Zero to 100 in Three Months

 

[McRat]

The Model 3 is highly desired with 400K+ pre-orders. The Bolt, much less. GM is capable of ramping up quicker, but without much demand and (maybe) losing money on each car, why? Tesla has far more need to ramp quickly, but less experience and, thus, far more aggressive goals. I'd rather have Tesla's problems with the Model 3 than GM's problems with the Bolt. I could have bought a Bolt for less money and I would be driving it now, yet there is not a Bolt in my garage.... There is an HPWC waiting for a mate instead.

A car company has 'The Press' drive a '200+ mile' EV that will sell for $37,500. They liked it. This was January 2016. You could not order them.
Two months later, Tesla says they will sell a 215 mile EV for $35,000 with better performance. And you can order it today! Tesla accepts 180,000 pre-orders in 24 hours.

If somebody was smart, they would say today they will sell a 350 mile EV, for $32,500, that is quicker than the Tesla Model 3. Then collect deposits. Move to a country with no extradition.

While there are lots of 240+ mile EVs (Bjorn Nyland Numbers) on the road that sold for as little as $22k after rebates, there is no waiting list.

There is only a waiting list for $50k Model 3's. You cannot buy one through Tesla. Even if you ordered that $35k car the first day, you cannot get one for $50k yet. They have only produced at most 14,000 of the 180,000 day one cars.

Welcome to the future. I'm surprised Nissan, Jaguar, Porsche and Ford have not learned this trick from Tesla. This is how you sell cars in the 21st Century. The real beauty, is the car doesn't even have to have all the advertised options with the car. They will be delivered at some point in the future.

 

[strykeroz]

At the lower production rate Chevy is producing Bolt is there a queue forming?

 

[McRat]

At the lower production rate Chevy is producing Bolt is there a queue forming?

No, you can drive one today. Neither Chevy or Jaguar accepted deposits on their EVs.

 

[strykeroz]

No, you can drive one today. Neither Chevy or Jaguar accepted deposits on their EVs.

So in essence the bigger noise is caused by the pent-up demand. There aren't queues at Chevy dealers, so there's no clamouring crowd. I don't even think the big noise is from all us waiting - it's the reaction of those I speak to who ask when my car is coming who would like to buy one but would never wait so long (and shouldn't have to ultimately of course). Their impression is Tesla can't bolt cars together as a consequence. I get to see a lot of eyes rolled as I expect we all do.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

No, you can drive one today. Neither Chevy or Jaguar accepted deposits on their EVs.

Huh?

Jaguar says it has over 25,000 confirmed orders for the I-Pace, with customers in big markets in Europe and the U.S. placing "four-figure" deposits, despite the not knowing the exact final price. That order book is almost two year's worth of production at Magna Steyr's contract manufacturing plant in Graz, Austria, where the I-Pace will be built based on capacity predictions from IHS Markit.

Why Jaguar won't show the I-Pace at Frankfurt

 

[McRat]

Huh?



Why Jaguar won't show the I-Pace at Frankfurt

SoCal Jaguar dealers are not accepting orders. They don't even get their order sheets until June. Europe is could be different.
Not sure who their source is. If they accepted orders, I'd have dropped off a check.

First, the dealers will order for stock. They can get up to one First Edition car or zero. You can order a first edition though, as well as any config you want after the dealers order for stock. They want $1000 to special order.

Perhaps unscrupulous dealers are taking money? But how would Jaguar know?

 

[viktorleon]

These are all valid points folks. Thanks for the dialogue. I guess we must realize that patience is key when it comes to Tesla, sorta like the Hare vs Tortoise analogy - very optimistic that Tesla is the latter.

When I reserved my M3 on day 1, I understood that promises had been broken before and timelines were delayed, so mentally, I was OK with waiting 2 to 3 years to commit to Tesla and everything they stand for. I would have jumped into a MS, but it was just not realistic (monetarily) at the time.

It pains me to see people abandon their reservations but I know that life happens and everyone has their needs.

Welcome to the future. I'm surprised Nissan, Jaguar, Porsche and Ford have not learned this trick from Tesla.

Right? All the additional (upfront deposit) money that can go to R&D (not like they need it) would be HUGE and make it a more competitive market.

 

[seattlite2004]

At the lower production rate Chevy is producing Bolt is there a queue forming?

When I visited my local Chevy dealer at the end of March...they had no Bolts on the lot..and most of the Bolts they had coming in were pre-sold...just waiting for the car to come off the rail car and trucked to the dealer.

 

[gregd]

I'm surprised Nissan, Jaguar, Porsche and Ford have not learned this trick from Tesla.

The trick they haven't learned is how to produce an EV that 450,000+ people want to buy.

 

[seattlite2004]

The trick they haven't learned is how to produce an EV that 450,000+ people want to buy.

But they do know how to make a profit.....specially Porsche.

 

[ulrichw]

[...] and how their producing +-2700 cars per week seems minimal [...]

Duude - I just wanted to commend you on correctly using the possessive with a gerund ("their producing" instead of "them producing").

And to address your point, my personal theory is that the pundits' and analysts' feedback is comparable to Elon Musk's promises.

Just as Elon Musk constantly misses his targets because he hasn't started a car company before, the pundits and analysts constantly miss their mark (both on the positive and negative sides) because none of them have experience watching a brand new car company start.

I'm sure somebody out there has a real idea of what they're talking about but drawing superficial comparisons between the operational performance of a well-established traditional car producer and that of a brand new upstart producer that has probably outperformed most people's expectations (other than its own CEO's) is anything but valid, in my opinion.

 

[ebmcs03]

But they do know how to make a profit.....specially Porsche.

Cuz their cars are that good. I would be more willing to spend more on them given their track record.

 

[cmaster]

The body style of the Bolt shares the same as the Buick. They didn't need to spend time to retool their facility to produce the Bolt. We can't compare Chevy to Tesla. However, Tesla is able to adapt quickly to change so they will ramp up.