But I think you're knocking down a straw man. Aesthetics and tire performance are not either/or. I agree that Tire and wheel performance is more important than Aesthetics, but it's not as though with low aspect ratio Pilot Sport 4S tires you're looking at something unappealing. Indeed both my car and my wife's car frequently get comments about the tires and wheels with people asking what they are, how much they cost, Etc. As for low profile tires being more vulnerable to puncture, there's no data to support that assertion. They are more vulnerable obviously the curb and pothole impacts. No question about that. But since switching to 30 series tires on my car (265/30 - 20 in front and 275 / 30 - 20 in back– both Michelin Pilot Sport 4S) I've had no issues with bent rims, flats or any issue in relationship to the tires at all for that matter. I've also however have forged wheels and am pretty careful to avoid curbs. In your case, you may be comfortable with 18s and believe the trade-offs work better for you. I guess that's the beauty of it you get to pay your money and make your own choice. I couldn't be happier with how our cars have turned out.
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M3P coming soon and wife wants a better ride. Will 19's make any difference or do I have to go with 18's?
- Thread starter ssrobinson
- Start date
But I think you're knocking down a straw man. Aesthetics and tire performance are not either/or. I agree that Tire and wheel performance is more important than Aesthetics, but it's not as though with low aspect ratio Pilot Sport 4S tires you're looking at something unappealing. Indeed both my car and my wife's car frequently get comments about the tires and wheels with people asking what they are, how much they cost, Etc. As for low profile tires being more vulnerable to puncture, there's no data to support that assertion. They are more vulnerable obviously the curb and pothole impacts. No question about that. But since switching to 30 series tires on my car (265/30 - 20 in front and 275 / 30 - 20 in back– both Michelin Pilot Sport 4S) I've had no issues with bent rims, flats or any issue in relationship to the tires at all for that matter. I've also however have forged wheels and am pretty careful to avoid curbs. In your case, you may be comfortable with 18s and believe the trade-offs work better for you. I guess that's the beauty of it you get to pay your money and make your own choice. I couldn't be happier with how our cars have turned out.
Those are 18x10.5 with 295x35 a052 and 19x9.5 with 275x35 cup2. I think it's more about wheel color and design rather than ride height which is not extremely low in my case. A052 doesn't fit for street since it will wear out instantly and 295 is somewhat too much for the range loss. Cup2 was not a good decision - they still die on the track and don't work good in wet vs 4s. I will flip them back to 4s once they will be done. I also have stock 20 inch with winter tires and for passing tech inspection, but I keep curbing those and damaging tires - 20 is just plain bad.
Candleflame
Active Member
They sure do - silly me sold them. Now I want them back... I'll wait till I wear down these QuietTrack tires on my 19s (which is a shame - I LOVE the QT's -- excellent tires.)
Mahamilto
Member
It’s not so much the wheels, it’s the tires. The profile is slim and the pirelli sloped sidewall is a disaster.
That makes a lot of sense. Really appeals to my practical side. While the M3 is a very nice looking sedan, it's not like a work of art or anything. I'm used to the attention I've gotten in the various "toys" I've had over the years. One of the appeals to this car is that I can go have some "fun" and nobody is going to pay a bit of attention. So this made me think that I'd rather focus on the driving experience rather than the "walking up to the car and getting in" experience. Want to stick with the Michelin's though. So to those with 18"s... I understand they ride better, but will I sacrifice handling? If I take a bit of a pothole chance with 19"s, does that gain me anything in handling?
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
A lot of people who setup their Model 3 Performance for the track (road-racing) use aftermarket 18" wheels. Let that sink in.
Corner grip is more about the specific tire selected than rim size. People tend to go with too low of a profile because they've heard it will corner "better" but if what you're after is actual cornering performance, do what the fastest guys on the track do. I can tell you that the winning race cars don't look like the cars of little "racer boys" with low profile tires. Dragsters don't use low profile tires, road-racers don't use low profile tires, sprint cars don't use low-profile tires, land-speed record cars don't use them either. Who uses low-profile tires? Little racer boys with flat tires on the side of the road.
Tires have an important job to do, don't handicap them by spending a bunch of money to make their job harder. I have the OEM 18" MXM4 Michelin all-season radials on my car in the spring-fall because I need good cool weather performance where I drive the most. It is rarely very hot and often quite cool. Their performance falls apart if I heat them up by driving aggressively for a few minutes but, when driven normally they can do evasive maneuvers better than a sport tire that hasn't reached temperature yet. The MXM4's perform pretty consistently for aggressive driving in moderate temperatures as long as I run them around 46 psi. but they are obviously not a tire for the track. You will find the guys at the track that get the best lap times run their sport tires at pressures higher than you might expect and with sidewalls taller than you might think.
It's both. The OEM wheel weighs over 30 pounds. Are you suggesting that that much unsprung weight is not relevant to the poor ride? Obviously, small side walls are perhaps a / the primary factor, but large amounts of unsprung weight is a huge issue over uneven surfaces. And it directly contributes to the vulnerability of both the wheel and the tire to impact damage as it becomes harder in a sense for the massive wheel tire assembly to move out of the way and conform to the surface so to speak when it hits a road undulation bump or pothole.
Mahamilto
Member
It’s both. Yes. But the tires are garbage. The geometry of the sidewall makes them prone to the blow out type I had and to bubbling. Unsprung weight is bad, but I’ve had 40 profile tires with a square/unstretched sidewall on heavy cast wheels before and didn’t have the nonsense happen like I did with this setup. The combo of sloped/stretched sidewall with a 35 profile is just disastrous unless you have nice roads.
So while I 100% agree the heavy wheels are an issue, the tire choice was beyond bad and I suspect the bigger culprit. If it had been a 40 profile, or even a squared sidewall, let alone both… still at bigger risk for damage but nothing like destroying 3 tires in under 1k miles.
oh… and I’m more talking in terms of tire damage than the ride. I don’t find my new setup (245/40 on wheels weighing nearly 10lbs less) to be that much superior in terms of ride quality. Better… maybe a touch, but not night and day by any means. Durability? Night and day.
I have 19x9 +35 Titan 7 T-S5 in Techna Bronze in-stock.
Full forged @ 22lbs per wheel.
We can also have a couple flow-formed options @ 23-24lbs by Apex (special promo).
And of course we have Forgestar in 19" readily avaible in most size and finish like on @Mahamilto 's car!
Let me know you have any questions. I'm happy to assist you in finding your 20" boat anchor replacements
Danny
I keep doing lots of reading. There is no shortage of opinions. Haha. Now thinking Martian 18" MW03 wheels with the Pilot Sport AS 4 tires.
I'm hoping that gets me a sweet spot of not losing too much acceleration for a better ride and can also carve a corner or two. Is there anyone with that setup or close to it that can weigh in?
I'm hoping that gets me a sweet spot of not losing too much acceleration for a better ride and can also carve a corner or two. Is there anyone with that setup or close to it that can weigh in?
Mahamilto
Member
Dropping weight will always improve acceleration. 10lbs off a wheel is like 40lbs (give or take) off the car because it’s unsprung rotating mass. So going to a wheel/tire combo that weighs 10 lbs less is like having 160lbs less weight in the car.
Noticable, iffy. But maybe .05s off say a 0-60. Not mind blowing, but you would always have one less full grown adult in a car if you’re trying to post the best time.
Range is an issue and depends on the contact patch, tire compound, rolling resistance, and aero of the wheel. Most aftermarket wheels are lighter, but less aero than the stockers. Going summers to all seasons will help range; other way around you lose some.
Im getting similar range (slightly better tbh… but only 10mi/whr) with less aerodynamic wheels having a much bigger contact patch, but being all season compounds. It’s more or less a push.
The new all season 4s are far and away the best all season I’ve owned. No comparison. They are laser sharp with tons of grip. I couldn’t be more happy. Had the DWS06 (not the new plus tho) and the prior gen A/S3+… these are flat better. More grip, quieter than the A/S3+ and Michelin says they will be better in the snow. I can attest they are insanely good in the rain.
Noticable, iffy. But maybe .05s off say a 0-60. Not mind blowing, but you would always have one less full grown adult in a car if you’re trying to post the best time.
Range is an issue and depends on the contact patch, tire compound, rolling resistance, and aero of the wheel. Most aftermarket wheels are lighter, but less aero than the stockers. Going summers to all seasons will help range; other way around you lose some.
Im getting similar range (slightly better tbh… but only 10mi/whr) with less aerodynamic wheels having a much bigger contact patch, but being all season compounds. It’s more or less a push.
The new all season 4s are far and away the best all season I’ve owned. No comparison. They are laser sharp with tons of grip. I couldn’t be more happy. Had the DWS06 (not the new plus tho) and the prior gen A/S3+… these are flat better. More grip, quieter than the A/S3+ and Michelin says they will be better in the snow. I can attest they are insanely good in the rain.
I have the A/S3+ on my C7 Z06. And I'm happy with them, so I know I will be happy with the new version. I'm set on using that tire. It's the rim height/width I've been agonizing over.
Mahamilto
Member
19x9 has been great so far even on terrible roads. That’s all I can really definitely say. I didn’t want to go smaller due to looks.
This unsprung mass comparison to actual weight is not for acceleration calculations. It's about how it feels on potholes.
For acceleration the difference is just a weight difference + a tiny bit for rotational mass difference that you can ignore. So 40lbs lighter wheels is roughly 1% faster acceleration that you barely can measure.
Mahamilto
Member
Apologies. Factor is 1.6x the rotating mass to raw mass conversion. So 40lbs off wheels is 64lbs off. Agree you won’t feel the difference, but you will gain a tiny bit (as stated above)
OK, all these opinions but the OP wants his wife to have a better ride! Obviously taking out the effect of the tires, a 18" wheel with 234/45 tires will ride better than a 19" with 40 ratio or 20" with 35 ratio. The important thing is the amount of side wall. If you just go from a 20" stock to 19", your wife might not notice the difference.
For the better ride, 234/45/18 would be the best. Now look at tires with high comfort ratings, obviously not run flats. Also don't lower your sidewall like some people are saying, that would just negate the whole point of going to a smaller wheel.
For the better ride, 234/45/18 would be the best. Now look at tires with high comfort ratings, obviously not run flats. Also don't lower your sidewall like some people are saying, that would just negate the whole point of going to a smaller wheel.
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