M3P OEM Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs 4S

[jriv]

Hi!
I will be getting a M3P soon and I will be changing the wheels to 18” as soon as I get it. I will be getting a set of forged wheels but I am not decided yet, thinking on getting the Titan7 TS-5.

However, I’ve been researching tires and currently I’m undecided.

I wanted to know the community opinion regarding Tesla OEM tires for 18” wheels which are Michelin Pilot Sport 4. It is my understanding that these wheels are performance tires optimized for Tesla vehicles, that is, very low rolling resistance, specific tread pattern and acoustic foam inside.

In that same size, Michelin also offer the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. As many of you may know, that is a very well known performance tire with rave reviews. However, getting this tire means that I will not be getting the benefits of the Tesla (T0) specific tire, so efficiency will probably be lower and maybe higher road noise since these tires don’t have the acoustic foam.

What I want to know is, does anyone knows how much better performance can I expect from the 4S to be worth losing the benefits of the Tesla specific tire?

The car will not be going to the track, however there will be some spirited driving.

If the performance between the Pilot Sport 4 vs the 4S is not very significant, I prefer to have the OEM tire and enjoy the added efficiency. However, if the performance difference is significant I prefer to have the 4S and forget about efficiency.

Anyone with experience on tires can provide helpful advice?

Thanks

 

[Voltron_M3]

This might help.

 

[jriv]

This might help.

Hey, thanks! During my research I saw that video. It looks like there’s no much difference between the two but apart from that video I couldn’t find much more.

 

[Sam1]

Not sure how much softer the sidewalls are on the PS4, but after testing a set of the Pirelli PZ4 Sports and then the PS4S in an 18", I would only recommend the PS4S. Also you can see a visible difference in the bond around the edge of the corner tread on the PS4S, where they used a harder compound on the sidewall. This is sort of what they do with motorcycle tires, except they reverse it and use softer on the edge and hard in the middle, since you need most grip on an angle.

 

[Orwell]

I have the non-Tesla spec Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 235/45/18 on some lightweight wheels (TC105N).

It performs as expected however I would not get it again for the simple fact that it doesn't have the tire foam.

The road noise is substantially more without the foam, especially the high frequency pinging sound from expansion joints.

The tire foam eliminates the same sound a basketball makes when it bounces on the ground. PING! PING! PING!

It is a night a day difference between The OEM-Tesla 20" PS4S 235/35/20 and the non-Tesla PS4S 235/45/18.

I'm currently rolling on the OEM-Tesla MXM4 235/45/18 (with foam) which is also significantly quieter.

 

[Sam1]

I have the non-Tesla spec Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 235/45/18 on some lightweight wheels (TC105N).

It performs as expected however I would not get it again for the simple fact that it doesn't have the tire foam.

The road noise is substantially more without the foam, especially the high frequency pinging sound from expansion joints.

The tire foam eliminates the same sound a basketball makes when it bounces on the ground. PING! PING! PING!

It is a night a day difference between The OEM-Tesla 20" PS4S 235/35/20 and the non-Tesla PS4S 235/45/18.

I'm currently rolling on the OEM-Tesla MXM4 235/45/18 (with foam) which is also significantly quieter.

If you are hearing a pinging noise, it is not the fault of your tires.

 

[dfwatt]

Hi!
I will be getting a M3P soon and I will be changing the wheels to 18” as soon as I get it. I will be getting a set of forged wheels but I am not decided yet, thinking on getting the Titan7 TS-5.

However, I’ve been researching tires and currently I’m undecided.

I wanted to know the community opinion regarding Tesla OEM tires for 18” wheels which are Michelin Pilot Sport 4. It is my understanding that these wheels are performance tires optimized for Tesla vehicles, that is, very low rolling resistance, specific tread pattern and acoustic foam inside.

In that same size, Michelin also offer the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. As many of you may know, that is a very well known performance tire with rave reviews. However, getting this tire means that I will not be getting the benefits of the Tesla (T0) specific tire, so efficiency will probably be lower and maybe higher road noise since these tires don’t have the acoustic foam.

What I want to know is, does anyone knows how much better performance can I expect from the 4S to be worth losing the benefits of the Tesla specific tire?

The car will not be going to the track, however there will be some spirited driving.

If the performance between the Pilot Sport 4 vs the 4S is not very significant, I prefer to have the OEM tire and enjoy the added efficiency. However, if the performance difference is significant I prefer to have the 4S and forget about efficiency.

Anyone with experience on tires can provide helpful advice?

Thanks

You might have inadvertently gotten that upside down. The Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is offered in several sizes as a Tesla specific Tire and I'm not aware that the Pilot Sport 4 is offered in Tesla specific sizes. We don't know exactly what Tesla did in consultation with Michelin to spec that tire but we suspect that they made the tread wider to improve cornering without going to a bigger section width (which costs you a bit of rolling resistance), and probably had harder compounding on the center sections of the tire so that I could tolerate higher running pressures without exaggerated Crown wear in an effort to reduce rolling resistance. This is speculation on my part but the extra tread width is a fact.

 

[jriv]

You might have inadvertently gotten that upside down. The Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is offered in several sizes as a Tesla specific Tire and I'm not aware that the Pilot Sport 4 is offered in Tesla specific sizes. We don't know exactly what Tesla did in consultation with Michelin to spec that tire but we suspect that they made the tread wider to improve cornering without going to a bigger section width (which cost you a bit of rolling resistance), and probably had harder compounding on the center sections of the tire so that I could tolerate High running pressures without exaggerated Crown wear in an effort to reduce rolling resistance. This is speculation on my part but the extra tread width is a fact.

That’s interesting.

Here is the link to the Tesla specific Pilot Sport 4:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...r=2020&autoModClar=Dual+Motor+All-Wheel+Drive

 

[dfwatt]

That’s interesting.

Here is the link to the Tesla specific Pilot Sport 4:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...r=2020&autoModClar=Dual+Motor+All-Wheel+Drive

I stand corrected. That must be a more recent addition to the lineup at Tire Rack because when I did my original search two years ago when we bought the cars I could not find anything Tesla specific outside of the 4S.

 

[Sam1]

You might have inadvertently gotten that upside down. The Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is offered in several sizes as a Tesla specific Tire and I'm not aware that the Pilot Sport 4 is offered in Tesla specific sizes. We don't know exactly what Tesla did in consultation with Michelin to spec that tire but we suspect that they made the tread wider to improve cornering without going to a bigger section width (which cost you a bit of rolling resistance), and probably had harder compounding on the center sections of the tire so that I could tolerate High running pressures without exaggerated Crown wear in an effort to reduce rolling resistance. This is speculation on my part but the extra tread width is a fact.

Not sure here either, but I'm guessing the sidewalls actually have harder compounds and not the center.

<edit> just ordered a durometer to test the tread out of curiosity. I have the non-tesla spec though... Maybe someone can grab a meter and check the tesla spec ones.

 

[dfwatt]

Not sure here either, but I'm guessing the sidewalls actually have harder compounds and not the center.

Well the 4S compared to the 4 probably has a stiffer sidewall among other changes.

 

[Sam1]

Well the 4S compared to the 4 probably has a stiffer sidewall among other changes.

yeah, i edited the post right after you quoted it... just ordered a durometer from amazon to test the tread out out. After seeing the bonding seam running around the corner tread on the tire the other day I was curious myself.

 

[Clivew]

The Tesla specific Michelin PS4 is fitted as standard to all SR and LR AWD Model 3’s in the UK.

Also, the standard Michelin pilot supersports, PS4S and Cup 2 have dual rubber compounds in their construction (Ex F1 tyre engineer Jamie Mcwhir showed and explained this to me @ GFoS), and I think they’re the only manufacturer doing this with road tyres.

 

[Sam1]

Yeah, it’s the same thing they do with motorcycle tires, except they’re up to 3 compounds per tire.

 

[dfwatt]

The Tesla specific Michelin PS4 is fitted as standard to all SR and LR AWD Model 3’s in the UK.

Also, the standard Michelin pilot supersports, PS4S and Cup 2 have dual rubber compounds in their construction (Ex F1 tyre engineer Jamie Mcwhir showed and explained this to me @ GFoS), and I think they’re the only manufacturer doing this with road tyres.

Exactly as we had speculated! (I'm assuming a harder Compound on the crown and softer Compound on the outer edges?)

Nice to get that confirmed– thanks Clive!

 

[jriv]

The Tesla specific Michelin PS4 is fitted as standard to all SR and LR AWD Model 3’s in the UK.

Also, the standard Michelin pilot supersports, PS4S and Cup 2 have dual rubber compounds in their construction (Ex F1 tyre engineer Jamie Mcwhir showed and explained this to me @ GFoS), and I think they’re the only manufacturer doing this with road tyres.

Thanks for the info, i’m definitely getting the PS4S even though they don’t have to acoustic foam.

 

[dfwatt]

Thanks for the info, i’m definitely getting the PS4S even though they don’t have to acoustic foam.

Good choice. Even without the acoustic foam and the other modifications that make them Tesla spec, they are the best street tire for the car. No debate. I have non Tesla spec 265 / 30 on the front of one of our cars, and it's a great tire and not appreciably noisier.

 

[RL-TheDude]

Thoughts on OEM 2021 Performance?

 

[dfwatt]

Thoughts on OEM 2021 Performance?

View attachment 613692 View attachment 613693

Well it will be interesting to see what Tire Rack testing makes of this line of tires but it's worth keeping in mind a fundamental principle of technological design, namely that it's all trade-offs. One of the reasons why the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is such a great Street Tire in terms of its cornering braking and handling is that it's not an ultra low rolling resistance Tire. You can't optimize for everything. I suspect the Tesla spec version of the Pilot Sport 4S probably has some optimizations specifically that help electric vehicles but there's no formal data on that. One concern is that the p-zero family has generally been behind the Super Sports & Pilot Sport 4S family in terms of both a composite of user ratings and in formal performance testing.

 

[jriv]

Well it will be interesting to see what Tire Rack testing makes of this line of tires but it's worth keeping in mind a fundamental principle of technological design, namely that it's all trade-offs. One of the reasons why the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is such a great Street Tire in terms of its cornering braking and handling is that it's not an ultra low rolling resistance Tire. You can't optimize for everything. I suspect the Tesla spec version of the Pilot Sport 4S probably has some optimizations specifically that help electric vehicles but there's no formal data on that. One concern is that the p-zero family has generally been behind the Super Sports & Pilot Sport 4S family in terms of both a composite of user ratings and in formal performance testing.

I agree, we will have to see how they perform. However, in my case, I don’t care much about them since there is no way I can go around daily driving 20” wheels on the streets here.

What I’ve been thinking is getting the PS4S in 245/45/18 instead of the OEM 235/45/18. What do you think about that. Tire would by slightly wider and overall diameter will increase by about 0.75% which is not much.