TexasTezla
Member
I would have put "misread the market" as a great indicator that they need to catch up?!
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M3P VS BMW I4 M50
- Thread starter Futur3EV
- Start date
thesmokingman
Active Member
I like the I3 too, however it was hugely overpriced and makes sense used at 25K vs new at $45K-$48K.
The i3 sort of made sense compared to what else was on the market and BMWs very deliberate efforts to not cannibalize its existing models. I think BMW would have done much better had the i4 had a similarly advanced technical spec and an ambitious dedicated platform.
JustJohn
Member
I guess it really depends on whether we're discussing technology or production capacity. I've long thought BMW had adequate real world experience with electric drivetrains and my experience with the i3 (with respect to quality) was better than any other BMW I've owned. Sharing platforms with ICE vehicles certainly gives them an edge for production flexibility but I think their existing customers already expect more out of the electric offerings simply because Tesla exists. Great interior refinement and driving feedback in this arena doesn't compensate for relatively poor range and a slower car. BMW has always been leading edge. In this case, they could have been but they're not.
Touring the BMW factory during pickup of our last ICE (2008 5 series), I asked about their electric - specifically the range. I was told it will be about 90 miles in perfect conditions. I laughed - everyone looked at me. I said that's not near enough. The gentleman said "You Americans all have what we call 'Range Anxiety'. I told him... your country is the size of Texas... my wife drives 60 miles to work one way. !'m guessing 90 miles is sufficient here in Germany. But, for what we drive, I wouldn't call it 'Range Anxiety'. How about 250 range and cal it 'Necessity'? Maybe you should re-think sending your car to the U.S. And, of course, they did. - What a success that became.
JustJohn
Member
I had the range extender and a later version that was an actual 100 mile range. I needed the range extender as a crutch to convince myself that I could live with a BEV in the long term. Since I have a 14 mile commute one way, it was never an issue and I put about 38k miles on that car with about 10 gallons of gas over three years. Had it not been for that, I don't think I would have been so easily persuaded that 300 miles is enough to forego the ICE backup. Getting back on topic though, those same customers who could live with the BEV i3 are probably more than ok with the i4's range.
Hate to break it to you, Model 3 AWD is 11.8 meters turning radius. Tesla cars don't have a great turning radius either, especially not dual motor versions. (RWD S has better turning radius than AWD S, not sure if the same holds true for the 3.)
12.5 is bad too (i4 is slightly longer than Model 3 though), but if turning radius is important to you, neither Model 3 nor i4 is a good choice. Among sporty 4 door EVs, Polestar 2 has a noticeably tigher turning radius and is also shorter than Model 3, both aspects better for city driving.
The biggest thing for me between the Tesla 3 and i4 that made me lean towards the i4 is the build quality. Especially the noise levels (tire & wind) are really bad in the Tesla 3. The i4 (or at least the ICE variant of it that I got to test drive) was peacefully quiet in the same circumstances. Also the lack of a instrument cluster was a real turnoff in the Tesla 3. But I guess they stick everything into the center screen to save in manufacturing but it is not a very convenient location for the speedometer.
MaskedRacerX
Member
It's really not much different than having to look down at an instrument cluster. It's just slightly off from your direct front sightline, and it up high too, so it's more just a slight glance to the right (in the US
) vs. a slight glance down.I was not 100% about it, and I've had quite a few vehicles, with all sorts of different positioning of instrumentation/gauges and the Model 3 doesn't require any more attention for a speed check than any of my prior rides. Of all the impacts of the single, central display, the speedo is really a non-issue.
I'm sorry but I really don't agree. I find myself missing a central speedo just because now I feel so much less aware of what speed I am going unless I consciously make the effort to look. A HUD is a simple and elegant solution to this (it's also tech forward - isn't that what owning a Tesla is about?) and I really can't understand why they haven't put one in yet.
MaskedRacerX
Member
Well, sure it's personal preference, I was speaking from my experience and as someone who has owned like 20 vehicles (and I've done a lot of different types of driving, street, offroad, track). I'm very passively aware of my speed, maybe a few more months helps (we picked ours up June '21), and I also have a chime set for 10 over as a reminder.
I owned a couple of vehicles (Corvettes) that had a HUD, it would not be a bad idea, though I did run with them off during a good bit of street driving. I'd imagine a HUD like Tesla could implement (and using 2021+ tech) would be pretty killer. I certainly wouldn't so no if one just materialized in my car
TexasTezla
Member
Give it time...you soon wont miss that central speedo at all! A millisecond glance to the right instead of down makes zero difference. Having a totally clear massive swooping binnacle-free screen is magic! As for HUD...had one of those...never used it...distracting
i put a deposit on one of these but am now starting to think i'll just get another tesla. you have to go thru the dealer to pick up the car, and that means sitting for hours while the "finance manager" abuses you and tries to make you buy floor mats. i really, really never want to go thru that again as long as i live. plus the dealer wants another $1000 deposit above and beyond the $1500 that i had to give to BMW.
i'm sure the i4 is a much better car quality wise, but the dealership is a dealbreaker for me.
i'm sure the i4 is a much better car quality wise, but the dealership is a dealbreaker for me.
I'm late to find this thread but I had struggled with the same indecision. I pulled the trigger on my M3P not long after the i4 design studio was launched and I realized that I would be paying over $70k (before taxes and such) to get the car the way I wanted it. I figure I can revisit the i4 when my dealer gets their demo one in "March or April." I do like the interior and the color options, but each time I clicked "add heated seats" or "add self driving" in the design studio I was made more certain the M3P was for me.
scalbert03
Member
You look at the speedometer? Going marginally faster than the flow of traffic wasn't enough.
Candleflame
Active Member
the distance of the speed to the eyes is the same in a 3 vs a centre mounted speedo.
ODWms
Member
heavyD
Member
IMO HUD is a game changer and the best technological interior advance over the last decade. I rarely ever look at my instrument cluster anymore. It's just so convenient to have your speed in your line of vision while driving. I have to think adding a HUD would be cheaper than adding an LCD instrument cluster but I imagine that's not going to happen until legacy automakers EV's become more mainstream and Tesla is forced to up their game.
I get about 220 miles from my M3P and am in the process of swapping it for the BMW if that helps in anyway. I find the Tesla is not special enough and the absence of any interior noise, well, its a bit bland. Then you look at the build quality and interior. The seats aren't nice enough, same as all the other models, the software is good but I want a HUD and I'd like a speedo. Its a nice enough car, just not as nice in everything that matters to me as the BMW.
