M3P VS BMW I4 M50

[Kvitravn]

Curiosity I picked up at work - BMW has delivered 406 i4s to Norway during 2021 and 2022. (Norway apparently having the largest market share for this model)

Tesla Berlin gets a lot of flak for it's lacklustre startup progress, but even at today's measly 83 cars per day that's not even a weeks worth of cars.

I actually like BMW (the "old" BMW anyway) so while it's good to see BMW is dipping their toes into EVs, it's also depreesing to see how Tesla is just brute force outpacing them at an alarming rate these days.

I test drove an i4 M50 a while back. Well. If I could have the BMWs interior and ride quality in Model 3 I would buy that instaed. But the sheer weight of the thing and the traction issues it suffered just makes it feel like it's not meant for people who enjoy driving cars. It can go fast-ish but feels out of water.

 

[santua]

Why even buy an M3P then if we are talking about legal speeds? An SR+ is more than enough in that scenario.

As an aside, the BMW M3 comp x-drive would eviscerate the M3P around the track. it's not even debatable.

"X car would destroy X car on the track." The percentage of people that actually take their car to the track is so small, much less a brand new $100K M Car. And even then, the majority of people do not have the driver mod to be able to push the car to the limit.

May I add that this comparison makes little sense. The M3P is a $60K vs a $100K car. I highly doubt that anyone is really cross-shopping them. The M3P is more comparable to an M340i or an RS3 in terms of price.

 

[Apprunner]

"X car would destroy X car on the track." The percentage of people that actually take their car to the track is so small, much less a brand new $100K M Car. And even then, the majority of people do not have the driver mod to be able to push the car to the limit.

May I add that this comparison makes little sense. The M3P is a $60K vs a $100K car. I highly doubt that anyone is really cross-shopping them. The M3P is more comparable to an M340i or an RS3 in terms of price.

Yeah its a bit silly. AT that price, just get a LR Model S and it would annihilate the iM50 especially after the 60mph mark. Those things are monsters up top. Or a little more splurging gets you a Plaid which embarrasses anything.

 

[milesr3]

Why even buy an M3P then if we are talking about legal speeds?

The pleasure of driving slowly in something ballistic.

 

[thill444]

On another note. I listened to an episode of the Smoking Tire Pocdast and Matt Farrah was discussing the huge challenge he had trying to charge his Mach-E recently on a trip. First EV charger wouldn't take his payment. Found another charger and it was not letting him connect via the app. Found a third charger and same thing. By the time he found one that worked he had 8 miles left and had wasted a ton of time. So he called the charging company and they blamed Ford and he called Ford and they blamed the charging company I think it was Electrify America but I can't recall.

I don't think we can discount how big the Tesla Supercharging network is as a pro. The generic ones have to support all kinds of different cars and interfaces and cabling.

 

[Theone8181]

On another note. I listened to an episode of the Smoking Tire Pocdast and Matt Farrah was discussing the huge challenge he had trying to charge his Mach-E recently on a trip. First EV charger wouldn't take his payment. Found another charger and it was not letting him connect via the app. Found a third charger and same thing. By the time he found one that worked he had 8 miles left and had wasted a ton of time. So he called the charging company and they blamed Ford and he called Ford and they blamed the charging company I think it was Electrify America but I can't recall.

I don't think we can discount how big the Tesla Supercharging network is as a pro. The generic ones have to support all kinds of different cars and interfaces and cabling.

Even though I'm in the UK, Tesla has the best network. Things might have been different if companies weren't greedy to start with and all used the same standard, but it is what it is. It's one of the main reasons I went for a model 3, that and the fact that a taycan is too expensive. I still think the 3 is too soft, even at low speeds, we have these things called corners and roundabouts and that's were you notice it, still miss my 20 year old 911 Porsche know how to do suspension.

 

[thill444]

Even though I'm in the UK, Tesla has the best network. Things might have been different if companies weren't greedy to start with and all used the same standard, but it is what it is. It's one of the main reasons I went for a model 3, that and the fact that a taycan is too expensive. I still think the 3 is too soft, even at low speeds, we have these things called corners and roundabouts and that's were you notice it, still miss my 20 year old 911 Porsche know how to do suspension.

Have you looked into coilovers from MPP? I also find the Model 3P suspension to be a little too soft and floaty and really like what I am hearing about MPP.

 

[Adam3]

In fact, my Tesla M3P has MUCH more adjustability than my M2 Competition had and its much more fun all around.

This is very impressive. M2C is really sweet.

 

[tm1v2]

Even though I'm in the UK, Tesla has the best network. Things might have been different if companies weren't greedy to start with and all used the same standard, but it is what it is. It's one of the main reasons I went for a model 3, that and the fact that a taycan is too expensive. I still think the 3 is too soft, even at low speeds, we have these things called corners and roundabouts and that's were you notice it, still miss my 20 year old 911 Porsche know how to do suspension.

@Theone8181 Some parts of 'Murica have corners too, lots of them, and I wholeheartedly agree the Model 3 suspension is too soft. (At least 2021+, I have read here earlier ones were stiffer.)

Look into Redwood Motorsports and Mountain Pass Performance coilover kits. I put the Redwood Performance Sport kit on my M3P and it is transformed. Not cheap but worth every penny to me. The Öhlins DFV are really great for both ride+handling, I experienced them in another car and that's what led me to pick the Redwood kit for my M3P. You can read my driving impressions so far in this thread, pages 21-22 starting at this post:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/6669911/

I would be shocked if the 5000 lbs i4 M50 can handle this well. Even if you were to mod it similarly, an extra 1000 lbs is no joke, and it sounds like the whole car is really aimed at Grand Touring style smooth comfort. Not a bad thing at all, happy to see that in the EV market, but it's not what I want. (Also what someone else suggested about just buying a Model S instead if you want smooth fast air sprung GT car rings true, I'd probably lean that way as well, and just swap in a proper steering wheel.)

 

[.Slug]

Hey, I also come from an M2C, but in DCT. How has been your experience thus far?

As for the i4...It looks to be a good car, but when it comes to electric cars I believe that at the moment, Tesla has the best technology, and in my opinion, the Model 3 is a better-looking car than the i4.

I'm pleasantly surprised by how happy I am with the Tesla. I thought I would be let down by the simplicity of the interior over time, but the simplicity and minimalism are actually growing on me and provide a more mentally relaxing drive when I need it to.

Im coming to the end of my 5 month in the Tesla M3P with 8900 miles on the ODO. My BMW M2C was in the shop with BMW for almost 4 weeks out of the 3 months I had the car and had an undiagnosable rear end metal creaking that was either an issue with the differential or sub frames. My Tesla hasn't had any major quality issues like this.

I miss the noise of the M2C and manual shifting sometimes, but not the turbo lag, not the screeeachy brakes (yes I know performance brakes and normal, but damn annoying), not having to fill up on gas every 3 days with premium, not having the wife not being able to drive it, not being able to clean the gages without the surface being scratched to hell, not the propensity of the 7 different radiators to be damaged and leak from the tiniest of rock impacts. Honestly, I was always stressed driving the M2C because it felt like a collectors item, too easy to break and I so I couldn't really enjoy it. The M3P I really am driving the heck out of and enjoying every minute of it.

How was your M2C in DCT?

 

[santua]

I'm pleasantly surprised by how happy I am with the Tesla. I thought I would be let down by the simplicity of the interior over time, but the simplicity and minimalism are actually growing on me and provide a more mentally relaxing drive when I need it to.

Im coming to the end of my 5 month in the Tesla M3P with 8900 miles on the ODO. My BMW M2C was in the shop with BMW for almost 4 weeks out of the 3 months I had the car and had an undiagnosable rear end metal creaking that was either an issue with the differential or sub frames. My Tesla hasn't had any major quality issues like this.

I miss the noise of the M2C and manual shifting sometimes, but not the turbo lag, not the screeeachy brakes (yes I know performance brakes and normal, but damn annoying), not having to fill up on gas every 3 days with premium, not having the wife not being able to drive it, not being able to clean the gages without the surface being scratched to hell, not the propensity of the 7 different radiators to be damaged and leak from the tiniest of rock impacts. Honestly, I was always stressed driving the M2C because it felt like a collectors item, too easy to break and I so I couldn't really enjoy it. The M3P I really am driving the heck out of and enjoying every minute of it.

How was your M2C in DCT?

You know, I have to agree with a lot of what you mentioned.

I too was pleasantly surprised with the Tesla, but I also knew what I was getting into. I understood that these cars are not perfect. I do love the simplicity of the cabin.

I had the M2C for a little over a year and put more than 10k miles on it. I really liked its handling, noise, the fact that it pulled all the way to redline and even the shifts with the DCT were very satisfying. I am sure that they were nowhere near the level of a true manual, but the DCT transmission had some emotion to it, unlike the new ZF transmission on the new M cars which is very smooth and boring. Your post made me laugh a little, because I also had very squeaky breaks, and indeed the gas tank was so minute that if you like to drive spiritedly, you will find yourself in the gas station more often than not. At the end of the day, I really enjoyed the car, and I do think it is the best modern M car, but I got an offer I could not pass on it, and I really wanted to try an M3P. So far, I have really enjoyed driving it, and I am in the process of adding some mods.

Also, sorry for hijacking this thread.

 

[Theone8181]

@Theone8181 Some parts of 'Murica have corners too, lots of them, and I wholeheartedly agree the Model 3 suspension is too soft. (At least 2021+, I have read here earlier ones were stiffer.)

Look into Redwood Motorsports and Mountain Pass Performance coilover kits. I put the Redwood Performance Sport kit on my M3P and it is transformed. Not cheap but worth every penny to me. The Öhlins DFV are really great for both ride+handling, I experienced them in another car and that's what led me to pick the Redwood kit for my M3P. You can read my driving impressions so far in this thread, pages 21-22 starting at this post:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/6669911/

I would be shocked if the 5000 lbs i4 M50 can handle this well. Even if you were to mod it similarly, an extra 1000 lbs is no joke, and it sounds like the whole car is really aimed at Grand Touring style smooth comfort. Not a bad thing at all, happy to see that in the EV market, but it's not what I want. (Also what someone else suggested about just buying a Model S instead if you want smooth fast air sprung GT car rings true, I'd probably lean that way as well, and just swap in a proper steering wheel.)

I just thought most corners were give way, I.e. very slow to go round. I know there are other options bit imo if you're calling a car a performance variant, it should have the suspension to match as standard, especially as its got a track mode.

 

[tm1v2]

I just thought most corners were give way, I.e. very slow to go round.

@Theone8181 Make for the hills, don't get stuck in the cities and burbs here if you're looking for driving fun.

I know there are other options bit imo if you're calling a car a performance variant, it should have the suspension to match as standard, especially as its got a track mode.

I agree. Ultimately the M3P's strengths won out over its weaknesses for us though, and I was comfortable going aftermarket to upgrade the suspension. No car is perfect. M3P was the best option for us. Great combo of range/efficiency/charging and driving fun, even with the lackluster stock suspension.

 

[Theone8181]

@Theone8181 Make for the hills, don't get stuck in the cities and burbs here if you're looking for driving fun.


I agree. Ultimately the M3P's strengths won out over its weaknesses for us though, and I was comfortable going aftermarket to upgrade the suspension. No car is perfect. M3P was the best option for us. Great combo of range/efficiency/charging and driving fun, even with the lackluster stock suspension.

Oh don't get me wrong, it's a good car (the acceleration still makes me chuckle), but fitting aftermarket then starts messing with the warranty. Overall there's only a couple of negatives with the car.

 

[Scarletfever]

Curiosity I picked up at work - BMW has delivered 406 i4s to Norway during 2021 and 2022. (Norway apparently having the largest market share for this model)

Tesla Berlin gets a lot of flak for it's lacklustre startup progress, but even at today's measly 83 cars per day that's not even a weeks worth of cars.

I actually like BMW (the "old" BMW anyway) so while it's good to see BMW is dipping their toes into EVs, it's also depreesing to see how Tesla is just brute force outpacing them at an alarming rate these days.

I test drove an i4 M50 a while back. Well. If I could have the BMWs interior and ride quality in Model 3 I would buy that instaed. But the sheer weight of the thing and the traction issues it suffered just makes it feel like it's not meant for people who enjoy driving cars. It can go fast-ish but feels out of water.

The Model 3 is exactly the kind of car for people who don’t enjoy cars lol. The model 3 has plenty of strengths but every single comparison review has the driving experience better in the i4, except straight line 0-60.

 

[scalbert03]

The Model 3 is exactly the kind of car for people who don’t enjoy cars lol.

Care to elaborate? Pigeonholing car enthusiasts is a difficult stance.

When I see these statements and see NJ as a location, I assume a BMW NA employee...

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

The M3 with xDrive easily takes it in the 1/4 mile. The only thing the Model 3 Performance has on any modern BMW performance car is instant throttle response. After a few seconds the BMW is passing it and leaving it in the dust as you can see by the rolling races ...the M5 as it's considerably faster than the Model 3 Performance.

It's been at least a year since I've driven one of those old-fashioned gas powered cars but from what I remember:
- If you press the gas too slowly you get no power because the turbo won't spool
- If you press the gas too quickly you get no power because the knock sensor pulls timing
- If you press the gas just right you get no power because the engine just revs until the transmission decides on a gear, then traction control cuts the spark
- You never press the gas anyway since the engine is always cold

And even if you somehow had access to 142 octane dragster fuel, the perfect weather, the perfect engine temperature, and a foot that would make Andretti jealous, you'd still get no power since the stability control simply shuts the engine off anytime you turn.

So yeah, maybe on YouTube one of those old BMWs could sorta "outperform" a Tesla after lots of takes and editing to highlight that one-in-a-million moment when the piston slapper gets in it's groove and starts pulling beyond triple digits, but it's pretty hard to imagine how a clunky old oil-leaker could ever be faster in real life with any meaningful consistency.

 

[Knightshade]

every single comparison review has the driving experience better in the i4, except straight line 0-60.

Really? EVERY one says the i4 is better at everything but 0-60? Weird.

New BMW i4 vs Tesla Model 3

Hammer and tongs, tooth and nail; the rivalry between these musclebound electric cars will be seriously hard fought

www.whatcar.com

there is simply no hiding that extra weight in corners. The i4 suffers more from body lean through quick bends, and that means it takes a moment longer to react when you ask it to change direction. And despite the fact that both cars are fitted with the same Pirelli P Zero tyres, the i4 also runs out of grip sooner

We prefer the extra precision afforded by the Tesla’s faster steering when driving quickly, but the i4’s steering suits its more relaxed demeanor

Guess they didn't get the memo that EVERYONE says the BMW is better other than 0-60?

 

[Scarletfever]

Care to elaborate? Pigeonholing car enthusiasts is a difficult stance.

When I see these statements and see NJ as a location, I assume a BMW NA employee...

lol, not quite. I do have an i4 on preorder but I've never worked for or owned a BMW or any other luxury car.

Model 3 doesn't look like a regular car, feel like a regular car, drive like a regular car. Interior is nothing but a tablet, and the suspension/chassis is terrible for the price range. There are fantastic aspects of it as well, don't get me wrong, but it's not the type of car I would think of when I think of a car enthusiast car. It's a car for people who like tech. Quite frankly, EVs in general I wouldn't expect car enthusiasts to like. The i4 felt like a more refined driving experience than what I'm used to, just far superior in every way compared to the ~$30k cars I'm used to. That's not to say it's definitely a car for enthusiasts, but it was just a weird statement to see that it's not a car for people who like to drive cars, because that's exactly what it is.

 

[Apprunner]

lol, not quite. I do have an i4 on preorder but I've never worked for or owned a BMW or any other luxury car.

Model 3 doesn't look like a regular car, feel like a regular car, drive like a regular car. Interior is nothing but a tablet, and the suspension/chassis is terrible for the price range. There are fantastic aspects of it as well, don't get me wrong, but it's not the type of car I would think of when I think of a car enthusiast car. It's a car for people who like tech. Quite frankly, EVs in general I wouldn't expect car enthusiasts to like. The i4 felt like a more refined driving experience than what I'm used to, just far superior in every way compared to the ~$30k cars I'm used to. That's not to say it's definitely a car for enthusiasts, but it was just a weird statement to see that it's not a car for people who like to drive cars, because that's exactly what it is.

What? I've driven and owned a ton of sports sedans from BMW 340s to Lexus IS350 Fsports and I can easily say the M3P better than many cars in terms of sport. The chassis is fantastic and the suspension isn't as finely tuned for comfort as a German car but its easily competitive with those mid-power grade cars. The M3P isn't an M3 fighter in stock form but put some proper coilovers for track duty and the M3P is really good. You can improve suspension but weight can't be mitigated. Go look at how well a slightly modified M3P does on track and autocross because the platform itself is well engineered. The M3P is significantly cheaper than an M50 and it won't be nearly as luxurious but it also weights 800lbs more.