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M3P VS BMW I4 M50

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The weight is ridiculous....the weight of a Tesla comes as a bit of a shock when moving from an ice car...and now we are in a situation where Tesla drivers are surprised at the weight of a BMW...that and the exhaust cut outs and all it is is another poor design from Stuttgart
 
The weight is ridiculous....the weight of a Tesla comes as a bit of a shock when moving from an ice car...and now we are in a situation where Tesla drivers are surprised at the weight of a BMW...that and the exhaust cut outs and all it is is another poor design from Stuttgart
This is where I am at these days. Tempted to order an i4 M50 and roll the dice that my M3P will still be selling for near my MSRP (55k) when the i4 is available (6 to 12 months) but I just can't get over the weight. There have not been a lot of complaints about the weight but it is dumbfounding to me. My wifes Q80 weighs 5000 pounds and there is just no masking it. I'd much prefer that Tesla update the Model 3 and upgrade the interior. Unfortunately, it does not appear that is coming anytime soon.
 
This is where I am at these days. Tempted to order an i4 M50 and roll the dice that my M3P will still be selling for near my MSRP (55k) when the i4 is available (6 to 12 months) but I just can't get over the weight. There have not been a lot of complaints about the weight but it is dumbfounding to me. My wifes Q80 weighs 5000 pounds and there is just no masking it. I'd much prefer that Tesla update the Model 3 and upgrade the interior. Unfortunately, it does not appear that is coming anytime soon.
I think the M3 interior has improved a bit since it first came out (as far as materials are concerned). As far as a HUD or another display, that can easily be solved with 3rd party add-ons.

And if lack of buttons is the concern, options for that too.

 
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I think the M3 interior has improved a bit since it first came out (as far as materials are concerned). As far as a HUD or another display, that can easily be solved with 3rd party add-ons.

And if lack of buttons is the concern, options for that too.

HUD interests me. Is there a proven solution that isn’t a PIA to install?
 
HUD interests me. Is there a proven solution that isn’t a PIA to install?
Don’t know. This was the best one I could find. (Highest customer rated. I don’t own a HUD though.)

HANSSHOW Tesla Head Up Display for Model Y/3 Tesla Carplay with Android Auto HUD Wireless Apple Carplay Steering Wheel Screen Power Speed Display 9 Inch IPS Touch Screen Bluetooth WiFi USB Carplay https://a.co/d/gRlK89o
 
The weight is ridiculous....the weight of a Tesla comes as a bit of a shock when moving from an ice car...and now we are in a situation where Tesla drivers are surprised at the weight of a BMW...that and the exhaust cut outs and all it is is another poor design from Stuttgart
Just a small detail: I'm from Stuttgart and can tell you that while Porsche and Mercedes are headquartered in Stuttgart, BMWs are from Munich.
 
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BMW? Never heard of it ;)


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On a highway, ICE engine noise should be an overriding source of NVH.
Unless the vehicle is poorly engineered and allows excessive wind noise to enter the cabin.

Unfortunately, my TM3P is way louder on the highway than any of my ICE cars.
All due to the wind noise. That comes from less than perfectly fitting body panel components and excessive gaps between body panels. The biggest offenders are the glass roof seam right over your head, and less than well designed side window gaskets. Probably something else as well.

It does not need to be that way, but it is what it is with Model 3's.
:(

A lot of luxury vehicles sit well below 2,000 RPMs at 80 mph. That's pretty hard to hear, and if you do hear it, a nice engine pur in the low-mid frequency range is pretty unobjectionable. Economy cars with coarser engines at higher RPMS are of course annoying.

Since driving my Model 3 3.5 years ago I have been a lot more attuned to (and annoyed by) cabin noise. Outside of the Lexus LS I have found complaints about almost everything I have driven. I suspect the faint motor whine at highway speed causes wind noise in EVs to have a sharper edge. I have also noticed serious low frequency noise from the EV SUVs. Instant and lasting ear pressure for me. Luxury ICE SUVs have it too, but to a much lesser extent. May be due to weight.

I recently drove a G20 3-series (the latest model), and found it to be good - but not great in the wind noise department. My X3 was better, but again it had more low frequency noise. I suspect I'll never be happy without a Lexus land yacht! If only Lexus made EVs..

Also curious to get your thoughts on i4 NVH? I do recall hearing the motor when passing concrete barriers, but other than that it was one of the quieter EVs at both low and high speed.
 
At the end of the day, Tesla range is far superior than M50.

20” M3P epa range 315
20” M50 epa range 227

One can argue Tesla is optimistic on their range estimate, but still almost 100 miles diff with less battery and thus lighter vehicle

Of course M50 interior quality is far superior than M3P. Hands down.
 
At the end of the day, Tesla range is far superior than M50.

20” M3P epa range 315
20” M50 epa range 227

One can argue Tesla is optimistic on their range estimate, but still almost 100 miles diff with less battery and thus lighter vehicle

Of course M50 interior quality is far superior than M3P. Hands down.
Can't beat weight, and I believe tesla make the most energy dense batteries (contributes significantly to the lighter weight I'd inagine), still think how fast a 3 would be with the motors from the i4 as it still shifts pretty quick with that extra weight.
 
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This is a fascinating discussion. I really do miss the interior quality of Audi and BMW on my M3P. If shopping today and both cars were sitting on the lot with the BMW having the tax credit I’d probably take the BMW for that reason even if I’m giving up a few things. To me, it’s surprising that BMW can offer such a refined car at nearly the same price as the M3P.

I do think Tesla is going to need to up its game in the interior department soon. Now without the tax credit it becomes harder as I’m not sure I’d shell out 10k more for the BMW.

I hope Tesla has a plan because the BMW is a compelling competitor. That said you can’t get one for a year from ordering so for now it’s really just vaporware.
 
To me, it’s surprising that BMW can offer such a refined car at nearly the same price as the M3P.

Given they did it by offering significantly less range by slapping batteries and motors in an ICE platform and carrying 1000 lbs extra weight it's not that surprising.

On top of which a lot more of the M3Ps price is profit than it is for BMW. If the market ever compelled it Tesla could knock another 10k off the price and still be making more $ per car than BMW does.


I do think Tesla is going to need to up its game in the interior department soon. Now without the tax credit it becomes harder as I’m not sure I’d shell out 10k more for the BMW.

You just made the point for why Tesla won't need to do any such a thing :)

Even without the tax credit Tesla or the much busier interior is sold out months in advance right now, and if BMW is at all successful with theirs they'll hit the credit cap very soon.

BMW only had 63k sales left before they hit the 200k cap on the full tax credit as of Dec 31 2021- and that's across all electrified models including Hybrids.





I hope Tesla has a plan because the BMW is a compelling competitor. That said you can’t get one for a year from ordering so for now it’s really just vaporware.

That's been the case with most "competition" for 10 years now.

And why 7-8 out of every 10 new EVs in the US continues to be from Tesla.

I guess on the upside for BMW if they keep slow-walking delivering anything in actual volume they can stretch those credits out on a tiny # of sales for a few more years?
 
A lot of luxury vehicles sit well below 2,000 RPMs at 80 mph. That's pretty hard to hear, and if you do hear it, a nice engine pur in the low-mid frequency range is pretty unobjectionable. Economy cars with coarser engines at higher RPMS are of course annoying.

That's all true.
As speeds increase, so does aerodynamic drag at the exponential rate (V^2) of speed. So getting precise exterior panel alignment and gaps just right (not just aerodynamic cross-section) plays a major role in mitigating highway noises.
Some automakers do that better than others:
drageq.gif


Since driving my Model 3 3.5 years ago I have been a lot more attuned to (and annoyed by) cabin noise. Outside of the Lexus LS I have found complaints about almost everything I have driven. I suspect the faint motor whine at highway speed causes wind noise in EVs to have a sharper edge. I have also noticed serious low frequency noise from the EV SUVs. Instant and lasting ear pressure for me. Luxury ICE SUVs have it too, but to a much lesser extent. May be due to weight.

To be fair, all car interiors get noisier and creakier with time. Interior pieces (plastic, leather, metal, etc.) deform with wear and repeated temperature expansion/contraction cycles. So comparing ANY new car to the same make and model of a sample that has been on the road for a few years, you will find the new one to be quieter.

Except for the highway wind noise. That one manifests itself instantly, and unmistakably. And it's a major handicap for Model 3's.

I recently drove a G20 3-series (the latest model), and found it to be good - but not great in the wind noise department. My X3 was better, but again it had more low frequency noise. I suspect I'll never be happy without a Lexus land yacht! If only Lexus made EVs..

What has surprised me is that my F80 ///M3, which is not a quiet car by any definition, has turned out to be a quieter highway cruiser than Model 3. From day one of TM3P ownership. All due to the excessive wind noise in the latter.

Also curious to get your thoughts on i4 NVH? I do recall hearing the motor when passing concrete barriers, but other than that it was one of the quieter EVs at both low and high speed.

i4 is an appreciably heavier and quieter car, at any speed. It does have a somewhat silly "custom car sounds" option, but I did not play with it during the test drive. The BMW EV motor makes a different sound than that in the Model 3, and my ears were attuned to picking up new sounds during the drive. It wasn't intrusive, but it was something.
The adjustable suspension helps with dialing in the handling and comfort to your liking. The overall interior BMW quality is distinctly of higher grade than in Model 3. Everything is in the right place, and all surfaces you touch are of quality leather, not slippery plastic. Instrument cluster is present, and so is heads-up display (HUD).

To me, not everything was great with i4 interior. It suffers from the same over-obsession with software controls and has done away with key physical buttons: no HVAC or audio controls. iDrive is meah, and rear passenger area is more confining than even in Model 3 (which is borderline already). The view out of the front is also a bit constrained by the huge and extraneous hood rising over the dashboard (for no good reason).

Since my kids are growing and need more and more rear seat space, I don't think i4 is for me.
The fact that it's $10+K more than Model 3 is not helpful, although that number gets reduced significantly by the $7.5K Federal tax credit that still works for BMW.

Some more data points here:

HTH,
a
 
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That's all true.
As speeds increase, so does aerodynamic drag at the exponential rate (V^2) of speed. So getting precise exterior panel alignment and gaps just right (not just aerodynamic cross-section) plays a major role in mitigating highway noises.
Some automakers do that better than others:
drageq.gif




To be fair, all car interiors get noisier and creakier with time. Interior pieces (plastic, leather, metal, etc.) deform with wear and repeated temperature expansion/contraction cycles. So comparing ANY new car to the same make and model of a sample that has been on the road for a few years, you will find the new one to be quieter.
NVH is kind of like black magic. As an example every Lexus LS460 I have driven had significantly less wind noise than every Porsche Macan. The Macans all had better gaps, more bulk around the doors/A Pillar, and were newer. Maybe the aerodynamic slipperiness of the Macans sent more turbulence to the side mirrors.
Except for the highway wind noise. That one manifests itself instantly, and unmistakably. And it's a major handicap for Model 3's.
That's why I sold mine. :(
What has surprised me is that my F80 ///M3, which is not a quiet car by any definition, has turned out to be a quieter highway cruiser than Model 3. From day one of TM3P ownership. All due to the excessive wind noise in the latter.
I didn't love the F80 or newer G20 for noise insulation. The F80 (340i 6 cyl) let in a lot of boominess from the engine, while the G20 (330i 4 cyl) I drove had more wind noise and a surprisingly intrusive turbo. Both clearly better than a Model 3, even the versions with insulated glass. I also wonder how much the sound of that glorious inline 6 guides the ear away from objectionable noises.

Thanks for the comparison video! i4 is still on my list, though the dealers aren't keen on extended test drives.
 
Tell us more... 🤔
:p. In case not being sarcastic (sometimes hard to tell on forums), it's uk speak for acceleration. I should have put an "innit" on the end😂.

Edit: missed the plaid comment, that and decent suspension would be a true performance version. Just as an aside I had a look at the taycan as that's the only thing I'd really replace it with, and I think you'd have to go turbo (in an electric which is utterly stupid naming scheme, but that's marketing), and then cost wise it's probably not far off double.
 
Just as an aside I had a look at the taycan as that's the only thing I'd really replace it with, and I think you'd have to go turbo (in an electric which is utterly stupid naming scheme, but that's marketing), and then cost wise it's probably not far off double.
That’s an interesting aside because some people (in another thread) are upset because they can’t accept that FSD is also a marketing name...