M3P VS BMW I4 M50

[Anothergeek]

I don't disagree at all. With the exception of one professional, this was an entirely amateur event. I haven't sat in an M car in about 4 years and it was an M6 at that. Not exactly autocross material either but absolutely glorious on the open road.

I own both the best M-car ever made, and a Model 3P.

Trashing Tesla is not a good look for a CCA member. Please don’t do It again. You’re playing to the Stereotype of a BMW owner.

I am a longtime CCA member. Been driving BMWs without interruption for 40 years.

 

[tm1v2]

Well yeah, those are three of the four best-ever 3-Series generations!

(Add in the e30).

@Anothergeek E36 didn't do it for me, but I'm definitely a fan of both the E46 and E90. I'd love to drive a well restored E30 someday!

I guess you have not driven the G series yet. It is even worse.

@Everwalker Sad to hear that about the G 3-series.

 

[terranx]

Took out my E46 M3 for the first time in a few months since buying my model 3 p. Still very much an enjoyable car in a very different way from the model 3. Even after getting used to an EV, there's something about a cammed and airbox'd E46 M3 screaming away at >8000 RPM

 

[Shelburne]

Why didn’t Mobile Service come to you?

Should have been a no-brainer.

Insist on Mobile Service next time. It’s fabulous.

I haven’t even been to my Service Center at all. In three years.

It’s about 70 miles away, in Denver, and was no factor whatsoever in deciding to buy the car.

I asked for mobile service first but there was a 4 week wait and the service center saw it within a few days

 

[Gasaraki]

Yes and no depending on vendor. WLTP does seem optimistic however EPA is basically useless for relative comparison as OEMs can arbitrarily pick a “correction” factor within a certain range thus you can’t compare EPA range across vehicles Unless you know the correction factor and normalize accordingly. There are also other discrepancies like allowing the OEM to pick what tire/wheel size for test vs what the car actually comes with. Have to read the fine print…

Net net. You can not do apples to apples with EPA unless you dive into the details. Better off looking for real world experience otherwise you will be “surprised” (sometime good but with some OEM’s not so good…)

Even the most optimistic EPA rating factor (Tesla) shows shorter range than WLTP and NEDC.

 

[holmgang]

Most cars don't, not sure why it is such an inconvenience.

I don't drive most cars. All my recent cars have been "fully keyless" where I can walk up to it and open any of the doors or storage.

Now instead I need to take out my phone, unlock, browse to Tesla, command it to unlock. I'd rather just stick to the trunk.

 

[holmgang]

Why didn’t Mobile Service come to you?

Should have been a no-brainer.

Insist on Mobile Service next time. It’s fabulous.

That's not a guarantee, and certainly not the prerogative of the owner.

Only one of my service appointments were scheduled for Mobile Visit... which they promptly changed into a Service Center visit. I certainly can't compel them to come to me.

 

[Bouba]

The frunk’s inaccessibility is it’s strong point...on a road trip, I can fit an airline cabin size bag and laptop...so anything of value is secreted away and safe..

 

[santua]

I don't drive most cars. All my recent cars have been "fully keyless" where I can walk up to it and open any of the doors or storage.

Now instead I need to take out my phone, unlock, browse to Tesla, command it to unlock. I'd rather just stick to the trunk.

What car that you own, that has a "frunk," has a keyless option or a button? Honestly, I am surprised as to how much a little tap on your phone complicates your life. Not even 911s have this keyless option you talk about...

If you want a shortcut, and you have an iPhone, you can create a widget for your Tesla app that will show your car and a couple of important features, such as unlocking the frunk. Perhaps that helps you.

 

[SO16]

What car that you own, that has a "frunk," has a keyless option or a button? Honestly, I am surprised as to how much a little tap on your phone complicates your life. Not even 911s have this keyless option you talk about...

If you want a shortcut, and you have an iPhone, you can create a widget for your Tesla app that will show your car and a couple of important features, such as unlocking the frunk. Perhaps that helps you.

Could also do voice commands if you have an Apple Watch. Perhaps could be setup for the frunk.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

I love having that isolated front storage. In ours, we have an air compressor, a tire plug kit, the TMC (with a few adapters), an extension cord, a couple of jacking pucks, front window sun screen, a roll of paper towels, all sitting on a [yoga] mat to keep it quiet and have something to lie on if needed, and it's all out of the way and always in the car.

 

[clerks]

So my local BMW dealer has been pushing me to order an i4 M50. I'm close to giving it a shot. They are claiming it won't arrive until Q1 next year which will be about the 2 year anniversary for my M3P. I do love my Tesla but I also think the BMW offers some nice upgrades in terms of interior with nearly the same level of performance. I am aware of the pros and cons of each but on balance the BMW looks like a nice upgrade for my personal use.

That said, they are also projecting that the tax credit will expire in Q1 so there seems to be a race of sorts to get to the credit. Without the credit, it no longer makes sense to me. I am also counting on the resale value of my M3P staying strong. If it crashes, the economics no longer make sense to me.

BMW wants a $500 deposit to secure the order. I'm on the fence as I type this but leaning toward placing the order and seeing what comes.

 

[Discoducky]

"Heavy adaptation to an existing ICE platform"

 

[Knightshade]

So my local BMW dealer has been pushing me to order an i4 M50. I'm close to giving it a shot. They are claiming it won't arrive until Q1 next year which will be about the 2 year anniversary for my M3P. I do love my Tesla but I also think the BMW offers some nice upgrades in terms of interior with nearly the same level of performance. I am aware of the pros and cons of each but on balance the BMW looks like a nice upgrade for my personal use.

That said, they are also projecting that the tax credit will expire in Q1 so there seems to be a race of sorts to get to the credit. Without the credit, it no longer makes sense to me. I am also counting on the resale value of my M3P staying strong. If it crashes, the economics no longer make sense to me.

BMW wants a $500 deposit to secure the order. I'm on the fence as I type this but leaning toward placing the order and seeing what comes.

FWIW BMW was at 136,690 out of 200k cap end of 2021.

They sold ~75k EVs in 1H 2022 but most of those are outside the US so don't count...

I THINK the dealer maybe was hoping they'd reach 200k in the US by Q1 next year? Which is possible, maybe, but wouldn't impact you getting the full credit on a Q1 purchase- or even Q2.

The full credit is available to buyers through the end of the quarter they hit 200k sales and the next full quarter as well.

Then it's 50% for 2 quarters. Then 25% for 2 quarters. Then finally goes to 0.

 

[EmOne]

Yeah that weight difference is no joke. The stock M3P suspension is junk to be honest, mainly the dampers, so if BMW puts some of their better work into the i4 M50 it might handle and ride better from the factory. But I don't think any suspension can fully disguise an extra 1000 lbs, and I think fundamentally the Model 3 is a much better starting point for building a great-handling EV, if you don't mind some modding. (Start with good coilovers, not cheap ones, and that alone will probably be enough for any sane street use.)

Note I'm no Tesla fanboy, in fact I ordered a non-Tesla EV before an agonizing decision to cancel that order and get the M3P instead. I can talk trash all day long about Teslas, I've owned 2 so far and driven many more, but since you seem focused on performance, I might steer you to the M3P. Do test drive it though, make sure you're okay with the noise levels and overall refinement level!

i4 M50 looks like a real nice car, and perfectly fast in its own right. Nothing wrong there. But I agree with everything that in *any* performance metric whatsoever, the M3P is better, or can be made better (handling) than a 5000 lbs i4 ever will be. This includes range. The 2022 i4 M50 range is worse than my 2013 S P85, and Tesla has kept on improving, BMW has some significant catching up to do there.

Well, as previous 997.1, E92 M3 and current Series 1M owner, I would say the judgement on the stock dampers is unduly harsh; my biggest complaint with the stock M3P chassis was it's total lack of adjustment options and I would certainly say that I have been very glad to have moved over to Mountain Pass Performance for their suspension bits and tuned KW coilovers, but the stock setup would keep many enthusiasts happy on the street. Unless you need noise from your engine, this car continues to be the best street performance bargain in history! Costs Nissan Altima money to own/run (MIT study and my experience) and trounces almost anything on the street short of, you guessed it, ludicrous Teslas X and S) and I don't mean just in a straight line. Being form Chicago (pothole center of universe) I also switched to Apex 18" wheels and P4S 265/40 18's for improved handling and road hazard tolerance. I have kept the 1M as my analogue car, but the M3P lightly modded easily clobbers it in overall performance and running costs. Favorite quote of techy Mike for BMW Roundel magazine: "BMW's: expensive, and built to stay that way!"

 

[clerks]

FWIW BMW was at 136,690 out of 200k cap end of 2021.

They sold ~75k EVs in 1H 2022 but most of those are outside the US so don't count...

I THINK the dealer maybe was hoping they'd reach 200k in the US by Q1 next year? Which is possible, maybe, but wouldn't impact you getting the full credit on a Q1 purchase- or even Q2.

The full credit is available to buyers through the end of the quarter they hit 200k sales and the next full quarter as well.

Then it's 50% for 2 quarters. Then 25% for 2 quarters. Then finally goes to 0.

Appreciate the additional information. Yeah seems safe for Q1 2023.

 

[tm1v2]

Well, as previous 997.1, E92 M3 and current Series 1M owner, I would say the judgement on the stock dampers is unduly harsh; my biggest complaint with the stock M3P chassis was it's total lack of adjustment options and I would certainly say that I have been very glad to have moved over to Mountain Pass Performance for their suspension bits and tuned KW coilovers, but the stock setup would keep many enthusiasts happy on the street. Unless you need noise from your engine, this car continues to be the best street performance bargain in history! Costs Nissan Altima money to own/run (MIT study and my experience) and trounces almost anything on the street short of, you guessed it, ludicrous Teslas X and S) and I don't mean just in a straight line. Being form Chicago (pothole center of universe) I also switched to Apex 18" wheels and P4S 265/40 18's for improved handling and road hazard tolerance. I have kept the 1M as my analogue car, but the M3P lightly modded easily clobbers it in overall performance and running costs. Favorite quote of techy Mike for BMW Roundel magazine: "BMW's: expensive, and built to stay that way!"

@EmOne My M3P is now on Redwood Sport coilovers + MPP FLCA bearings + 18" Titan7 wheels and it drives friggin' awesome.

I stand by my comments about the stock 2021 suspension though. (Reportedly older Model 3 came with sportier, stiffer suspension tuning.) The car was absolutely fun stock, I wouldn't have bought it otherwise, but only up to a certain pace. The stock dampers literally would lose control of the car when driven really hard over tight, twisty, bumpy, uneven back roads. I probably do more driving on such roads than most here, just thanks to where I live and regularly travel.

Stock it also never felt quite settled around long ramps, with mushy steering, though as long as the pavement was smooth you could still use all of the tires' grip at least. With the suspension makeover it's transformed in that regard too now, as I'm sure your modded M3P also is!

I'm long past caring for engine noise in a daily driver. Don't want it, at all. Now if I were ever to get a separate fun car / sports car on the side, that could be a different story of course.

Nice choice of cars you've had / still have there!

 

[holmgang]

Honestly, I am surprised as to how much a little tap on your phone complicates your life.

If you want a shortcut, and you have an iPhone, you can create a widget for your Tesla app that will show your car and a couple of important features, such as unlocking the frunk. Perhaps that helps you.

This is deceptive way of framing the magnitude of the situation. Tapping on a phone isn't a complication per se.

What else aren't complications? Pressing a keyfob to unlock the door. Twisting a key to start a vehicle. Reaching for the entertainment display (rather than the steering wheel) to change the volume. Manually setting the climate. Tapping the phone to open chargeport.

If you had to do those things, they wouldn't be bothersome? Incremental inconveniences are still inconveniences.

What car that you own, that has a "frunk," has a keyless option or a button?

Imagine Tesla Superchargers required manual handshake and authentication just like every other charging stall in the world.
And a person asking rhetorically "what car do you own with electric charging that has automatic handshake to the charger? Not even Taycans have this charging network..."

That is not a valid dismissal.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

So my local BMW dealer has been pushing me to order an i4 M50. I'm close to giving it a shot. They are claiming it won't arrive until Q1 next year which will be about the 2 year anniversary for my M3P. I do love my Tesla but I also think the BMW offers some nice upgrades in terms of interior with nearly the same level of performance. I am aware of the pros and cons of each but on balance the BMW looks like a nice upgrade for my personal use.

That said, they are also projecting that the tax credit will expire in Q1 so there seems to be a race of sorts to get to the credit. Without the credit, it no longer makes sense to me. I am also counting on the resale value of my M3P staying strong. If it crashes, the economics no longer make sense to me.

BMW wants a $500 deposit to secure the order. I'm on the fence as I type this but leaning toward placing the order and seeing what comes.

Sounds like your at least one of your requirements might be satisfied (thanks to the excellent info from @Knightshade, I had no idea about those details) and I guess you could just wait and see with regards to the market and your Tesla.

$500 isn't too bad if you're mostly leaning towards the BMW, and are assuming the odds are in your favor.

I get it depends on how compelling the BMW is for you, at this point, I'm kind of anywhere from ambivalent to preferring my M3P (the latter getting points for the charging network). I think there's going to be a major change that's my trigger, some mix of an EV specific platform and/or charging network improvements, where I'm ready to seriously consider [another] BMW.

 

[clerks]

Sounds like your at least one of your requirements might be satisfied (thanks to the excellent info from @Knightshade, I had no idea about those details) and I guess you could just wait and see with regards to the market and your Tesla.

$500 isn't too bad if you're mostly leaning towards the BMW, and are assuming the odds are in your favor.

I get it depends on how compelling the BMW is for you, at this point, I'm kind of anywhere from ambivalent to preferring my M3P (the latter getting points for the charging network). I think there's going to be a major change that's my trigger, some mix of an EV specific platform and/or charging network improvements, where I'm ready to seriously consider [another] BMW.

Ambivalent is a good word. I’m relatively ambivalent as well tbh. I would welcome the improved interior the most. The M3P does not feel like a premium car to come due to the interior. It’s not a criticism- it’s just a fact. At this point it feels like a $500 option for 6 months from now. I am worried about the range on the bmw the most.