M3P wheel swap warranty question (and a couple of others too)

[ZigZagZap]

I'm a week or two away from my estimated delivery date for a Model 3 Long Range. However, as the day approaches, I keep going back and forth on whether to stick with the Long Range or upgrade to the Performance. This will probably be the last fun car I get in this lifetime, so it's causing me some pre-delivery angst. My wife is encouraging me to bite the bullet on price and get the Performance version figuring you only live once.

The issue that is holding me back is the 20in wheels. I confess that I am nervous about damaging the wheels on pot holes. We don't have a lot around here, but they exist. I think I'm likely to want to get 19" wheets with all season tires. The Kansas City area gets a lot of up and down temperatures in the late autumn, winter and early spring seasons, and I don't like the idea of worrying about what tires I have on the car as the temperatures bounce around from 70 degrees to 20 degrees as they sometimes do (e.g. today will be 70. Three days ago it was in the teens).

I've read through a bunch of threads here but have not seen anything that directly answered my question(s). Apologies if this has been asked and answered elsewhere.

1. Can I put after-market wheels and tires on a Tesla Model 3 without impacting the warranty? My Tesla sales person seemed to suggest that I could add aftermarket wheels/tires without impacting the warranty so long as Tesla put on the wheels at the Tesla store. That seemed strange to me.

2. Are there any recommendations on aftermarket sites that I should look at to get a sense of options for the Tesla?

3. If I keep the 20" wheels, are there any recommendations on all season tires that folks have been pleased with?

Thoughts? Thank you in advance.

 

[Captain Ahab]

By law, in the US, the manufacturer can deny a warranty claim if you modify the vehicle - AND that they can legally, defensibly say that your modification is responsible for the warranty issue you are trying to claim.

If you swap your wheels and tire configuration size to match one of the software selectable OEM wheel and tire confugurations, they have zero argument to claim your wheel and tire combination affects anything.

If you go for a non-oem wheel and tire combination, or change suspension components, it would be arguable that some brake, suspension, and drivetrain failues could reasonably be denied warranty service.

 

[Captain Ahab]

I purchased a set of 18's on tire rack. I chose sonething that was rated for my vehicle, affordable, lightweight, and attractive. Remember, our vehicles are heavy; this means higher loads on the wheels and tires. It is prudent to check both wheel and tire load and speed ratinging.

 

[Captain Ahab]

As far as the model you want. Is the extra cost worth the performance - given your fiscal goals?

These vehicles are fantastic, all trims. The driving features are nearly identical. Some dual motors have the option to purchase an accleration upgrade.

Reasonably, it is worthwhile knowing that much of the potential of the performance model is generally not safe nor legal to access on the street.

I have an m3p. It's great! I would have been equally satisfied with any of the trims.

A slow car is more fun to drive fast than driving a fast car slow.

Straightforward linear accleration is a drug that you rapidly develop a tolerance too - suggesting that it has limited satisfaction potential in the long run.

Even when underpowered, a lighter car offers more performance potential when braking and turning. It's worth noting different models have different weights.

In perspective, consider the performance of the base vehicle, it's danm good by comparison to most historical and many current offerings.

We live in an era of expertly designed vehicles that represent the collective work of extraordinarly minds. - I would be happy to have any model 3.

 

[Captain Ahab]

However, I sometimes miss having a clutch, a stick shift, an e-brake lever, and the ability to smoke rear tires by locking up the front brakes and sending maximum torque to the rear wheels. Because destroy all tires.

 

[ZigZagZap]

However, I sometimes miss having a clutch, a stick shift, an e-brake lever, and the ability to smoke rear tires by locking up the front brakes and sending maximum torque to the rear wheels. Because destroy all tires.

LOL. All good points in your first comment, and I appreciate your input. In truth, I do salivate at the off-the-line acceleration, but it's really the bigger brakes that I'm after. We can easily afford the P vs the LR, but we didn't save that money by being reckless, so sometimes it's hard for me to mentally let go. I'm in my early 50s and have only owned two cars (not including the cars bought for my wife). Didn't own my first car until I was 28. So in 25 years I've had two cars. And will soon be getting my 3rd, and only because my current car, a BMW 335d, is getting so expensive to maintain. So I'm thinking of an extra $7K plus added wheel/tire costs as being defrayed over a decade. And after that, I'll probably buy a self-driving, sub contact. HOWEVER, I really do like hearing people's perspectives and do take it all on board. Thanks!

 

[ZigZagZap]

I purchased a set of 18's on tire rack. I chose sonething that was rated for my vehicle, affordable, lightweight, and attractive. Remember, our vehicles are heavy; this means higher loads on the wheels and tires. It is prudent to check both wheel and tire load and speed ratinging.

By law, in the US, the manufacturer can deny a warranty claim if you modify the vehicle - AND that they can legally, defensibly say that your modification is responsible for the warranty issue you are trying to claim.

If you swap your wheels and tire configuration size to match one of the software selectable OEM wheel and tire confugurations, they have zero argument to claim your wheel and tire combination affects anything.

If you go for a non-oem wheel and tire combination, or change suspension components, it would be arguable that some brake, suspension, and drivetrain failues could reasonably be denied warranty service.

I do vaguely recall hearing about the US law years ago. Thanks for mentioning that.

 

[Captain Ahab]

You can't take anything with you when you die, it can happen anytime. Still, savings are prudent.

If you don't get the best "iPhone" or "Dyson" or "Tesla" now, remember, the next iteration may be even better.

You're the boss. Take your time and satisfy yourself, don't look back.

 

[Vines]

LOL. All good points in your first comment, and I appreciate your input. In truth, I do salivate at the off-the-line acceleration, but it's really the bigger brakes that I'm after. We can easily afford the P vs the LR, but we didn't save that money by being reckless, so sometimes it's hard for me to mentally let go. I'm in my early 50s and have only owned two cars (not including the cars bought for my wife). Didn't own my first car until I was 28. So in 25 years I've had two cars. And will soon be getting my 3rd, and only because my current car, a BMW 335d, is getting so expensive to maintain. So I'm thinking of an extra $7K plus added wheel/tire costs as being defrayed over a decade. And after that, I'll probably buy a self-driving, sub contact. HOWEVER, I really do like hearing people's perspectives and do take it all on board. Thanks!

If you like to drive fast at all on windy roads where brakes are used over and over, get the performance IMO or plan on upgrading the brakes.

I went back and forth between the AWD and Performance but this is the only new car I ever bought. I didn't want to have FOMO about what could have been. I have no regrets! Both cars are faster than any street car needs to be.

 

[ZigZagZap]

If you like to drive fast at all on windy roads where brakes are used over and over, get the performance IMO or plan on upgrading the brakes.

I went back and forth between the AWD and Performance but this is the only new car I ever bought. I didn't want to have FOMO about what could have been. I have no regrets! Both cars are faster than any street car needs to be.

Thank you for that advice. Have you heard or read of any comparisons on stopping distance between the AWD LR and the AWD P?

 

[ZigZagZap]

You can't take anything with you when you die, it can happen anytime. Still, savings are prudent.

If you don't get the best "iPhone" or "Dyson" or "Tesla" now, remember, the next iteration may be even better.

You're the boss. Take your time and satisfy yourself, don't look back.

You're the boss. Take your time and satisfy yourself, don't look back.

That's what my wife says, except the part about being the boss.

 

[Vines]

Thank you for that advice. Have you heard or read of any comparisons on stopping distance between the AWD LR and the AWD P?

It's not about the first stop, it's about the 5th. The stock AWD brakes are way undersized for performance driving a 4000 lb car.

 

[ZigZagZap]

It's not about the first stop, it's about the 5th. The stock AWD brakes are way undersized for performance driving a 4000 lb car.

Fair point on the frequency of stops and heat build up. Thank you!

 

[Vines]

Fair point on the frequency of stops and heat build up. Thank you!

No problem. The AWD has EV brakes, which means to me they melt under any real driving because they are meant for a car that basically never needs to use the brakes when driven normally.

The stock pads and larger rotors of the performance model are noticeably better and I ran them for quite a while. A decent set of high-performance pads and fluid will give a performance car quite a bit of brake for a street car.

 

[ZigZagZap]

No problem. The AWD has EV brakes, which means to me they melt under any real driving because they are meant for a car that basically never needs to use the brakes when driven normally.

The stock pads and larger rotors of the performance model are noticeably better and I ran them for quite a while. A decent set of high-performance pads and fluid will give a performance car quite a bit of brake for a street car.

Very helpful. Thank you. I've got some learning to do about after market options.

 

[tm1v2]

I agree about the P vs LR brakes for hard driving. My only M3LR experience was half a test drive, so I can't comment on fade, but the P brakes are certainly more confidence-inspiring, they just plain feel better.

Also the P can regen stronger than the LR for hard driving in the twisties! Track Mode 100% regen is actually a good bit stronger than normal mode. So you need the brakes less in a P, depending on your pace through the twisties.

Track Mode and the better brakes aren't relevant to typical daily driving, but when you have miles of fun, empty road in front of you snaking its way through the hillsides, the P is the better weapon.



On the wheels front, stay within stock Model 3 wheel specs and you should avoid any warranty issues. That means stock M3P offset, stock width (8.5" - 9"), no spacers, preferably no centering rings, and make sure the wheel's load rating is sufficient.

(If you put on super wide wheels because racecar, or spacers or an aggressive offset...don't complain to Tesla that your wheel bearings or such failed early. Pay to play with that stuff.)

I went with Titan7 T-S5 18x8.5" ET34 wheels. The Model 3 / M3P fitments are truly made and machined specifically for the M3P, including directly mounting onto the "stepped lip" hub, no centering rings or spacers needed, and they clear the M3P brakes. The 18x8.5" size is the same as base Model 3 wheels so there's really nothing for Tesla to complain about.



For tires you want XL load rating, and stay close to stock tire diameter, 26.3"-26.8" ideal. I am running 245/45R18 Bridgestone Potenza Sport, which so far are awesome for a street performance tire, I highly recommend them. They grip way better than the stock Pirelli PZ4 tires that came on my M3P. For sizing I like the smidge extra width and sidewall/diameter that 245 gives vs 235, and 245 is a completely normal width for 8.5" wide wheels, my other Tesla even came with 245 on 8.5" wide wheels from the factory, and so did my last ICE car.



Lastly, if you ever like to really push your car's limits, you need the P for Track Mode to dial down the nannies. There is no official way to defeat them on an LR.

For example, if you might want to drive fast in the snow, or if you have access to nice empty ramps with room for safe fun, the nannies can be intrusive and you'll want Track Mode's ability to dial them down.

 

[ZigZagZap]

I agree about the P vs LR brakes for hard driving. My only M3LR experience was half a test drive, so I can't comment on fade, but the P brakes are certainly more confidence-inspiring, they just plain feel better.

Also the P can regen stronger than the LR for hard driving in the twisties! Track Mode 100% regen is actually a good bit stronger than normal mode. So you need the brakes less in a P, depending on your pace through the twisties.

Track Mode and the better brakes aren't relevant to typical daily driving, but when you have miles of fun, empty road in front of you snaking its way through the hillsides, the P is the better weapon.



On the wheels front, stay within stock Model 3 wheel specs and you should avoid any warranty issues. That means stock M3P offset, stock width (8.5" - 9"), no spacers, preferably no centering rings, and make sure the wheel's load rating is sufficient.

(If you put on super wide wheels because racecar, or spacers or an aggressive offset...don't complain to Tesla that your wheel bearings or such failed early. Pay to play with that stuff.)

I went with Titan7 T-S5 18x8.5" ET34 wheels. The Model 3 / M3P fitments are truly made and machined specifically for the M3P, including directly mounting onto the "stepped lip" hub, no centering rings or spacers needed, and they clear the M3P brakes. The 18x8.5" size is the same as base Model 3 wheels so there's really nothing for Tesla to complain about.



For tires you want XL load rating, and stay close to stock tire diameter, 26.3"-26.8" ideal. I am running 245/45R18 Bridgestone Potenza Sport, which so far are awesome for a street performance tire, I highly recommend them. They grip way better than the stock Pirelli PZ4 tires that came on my M3P. For sizing I like the smidge extra width and sidewall/diameter that 245 gives vs 235, and 245 is a completely normal width for 8.5" wide wheels, my other Tesla even came with 245 on 8.5" wide wheels from the factory, and so did my last ICE car.



Lastly, if you ever like to really push your car's limits, you need the P for Track Mode to dial down the nannies. There is no official way to defeat them on an LR.

For example, if you might want to drive fast in the snow, or if you have access to nice empty ramps with room for safe fun, the nannies can be intrusive and you'll want Track Mode's ability to dial them down.

Awesome comment. Really appreciate you taking the time to offer your thoughts. Super helpful.

 

[DayTrippin]

There is not a huge difference between the LR and P front brakes. Basically a slightly larger rotor size. See the wiki below for in depth info.

Tesla Model 3 Brakes – Stock, Performance, Aftermarket – Tesla Model 3 Wiki

Before I get into my personal perspective, I'll preface with my Tesla experience. I've bought a Model Y LR, Model 3 LR and Model S LR. They have all been purchased within the last 9 months. Notice a pattern?

On every one of these I debated between going with the P version or not. I could have easily bought the P version of each model. For me it wasn't about the price. It was basically because I didn't think they were the extra money. Other than a bit more power (or lot more with the S Plaid), most of the stuff was just bolt-on baubles I could add myself. The one area where that isn't the case is track mode which I wouldn't use much anyway.

The decision was even easier for the 3/Y as I couild add acceleration boost. That was the only thing I wanted out of the performance "upgrades" you got with the P model. Excuse my sarcasm when I say "OOOOooo red colored brake calipers. Oh yeah, a stuck on rear wing. OMG - look at those metal brake pedals. Hell yeah, I want me some of those heavy ass big, non-forged wheels." Maybe if I was in a 10th grade shop class that might have been my idea of performance upgrades.

So when I looked at it all, the best course for the 3/Y was just to get acceleration boost. I have pretty good ride quality and only give up a little off the line to about 25 mph acceleration capability. For me, a total non-issue. I don't feel I missed out at all on the P versions. The only LR version seriously lacking vs the P version in acceleration is S LR and running high 10 second quarter miles is a hell of a fast street car anyway.

I can assure you if you mas the throttle on the M3 LR and you are disappointed, you will feel the same way with the M3P. The car is seriously quick. Very few things are going to keep up with the M3 LR on the street other than another Tesla unless you spend 2-3 times the price. Every time I hit a pothole I am reminded how happy I am that I don't have those horrendous wheels and how badly they impact the range. Every time my wife drives the car, I don't am thankful we don't have them easy because they would be curbed to hell just like all the demo performance cars I saw.

I have no FOMO at all. If I did, I would what until the next version came out. And the next. And the next. The performance models are the ones to be more likely see the greatest depreciation as they matter most when they are the best. When the new P model comes out, yours is yesterday's news. While it may still be a fine car, if you bought it because you wanted the "best", then you no longer have it.

When I ordered my S LR, I think the Plaid was 40-50k more. I made a decision to pass on it, and buy the Y LR and the S LR instead. At the time the diferreence between the Y LR and P was 8k. Easy choice to save the 8k and give back 2k to buy boost. When I ordered the 3 LR, same delta of 8k. Again easy choice to buy the LR and add boost. Elon has said they will be rolling out track mode to the cars with Boost. Who knows how long since it is on Elon time but it should be coming. I'll take the money I saved and invest in Tesla stock or sometihing else. Maybe in a few years the savings will buy me another Tesla. I think currently the only model it makes sens to buy the P version of is the Y. The delta is just too close.

As others have said, you get used to the acceleration pretty quickly. I thought my 3 LR stock was a lot slower than my Y with boost. On paper they are pretty close. When I ran Dragy on it to hard numbers it was actually quicker. I am already used to the Insane mode in my S LR which does 0-60 in about 3.1 seconds (factoring in rollout). So if you compare it to the M3P in similar terms the 3P is 3.1 seconds and the S LR is ~2.8 seconds. At some point, the P, LR, or even Plaid will start to feel slow.

So if you want the P, get the P. If not the LR with boost is almost as quick and better on bad roads. Keep in mind that if you use all the off the line acceleration Teslas have you are going to eat through tires. The high, instant torque, is a recipe for tire destruction. A friend of mine chewed through the tires on his P in 8k miles. He is spending more per miles on tires than energy.

Heck, the base 3 LR is a quick car. I had a friend who bought it and still hasn't added boost. He said he is saving that option for a year or 2 later when he wants to feel like he has a "new car" again. I can understand that approach.

Enjoy whatever 3 you buy. I think they are all good choices.

 

[MasterC17]

The chances that Tesla denies some sort of warranty claim over aftermarket wheels and tires is effectively none. They cannot sensibly argue that wheels and tires cause any damage unless perhaps they were installed improperly, or things were damaged when installed (such as lug nut studs, perhaps).

That being said, you could also just get a set of factory 19" wheels and put a nice set of tires on them. You can use either the old version or new version, and you can have them powder-coated a different color if you don't like silver. This is what I've done with all four Performance models I've purchased; immediately sell the Performance wheels/tires and get the upgraded non-performance wheels, free to choose the tire I want.

Alternatively, the easiest to acquire/readily available Tesla-specific wheels are from T-Sportline or Martian Wheels. Though, there are plenty of options.

Ultimately, my suggestion is spring for the Performance and ditch the 20's.

 

[Captain Ahab]

Happiness, Perfection, The "Best Choice"? For each person, a different definition or path.