If the question is about sport - sport is about numbers, Model 3 is fast not only on the straights. But if the sport is dancing with a car - it's just a different dance, one you're not yet used to. Otherwise, Miata is great for dancing - not sport (in stock form).
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M3P - Who switched from a (true) sports car?
- Thread starter drew4392
- Start date
Sport is NOT about numbers. Race is about results (=numbers). Sports is about fun.
A race car can be ugly as sin and uncomfortable as a cramp, but it's fine, because its primary objective is being fast.
The Miata is almost universally considered the quintessential modern SPORTS car, because even though it is not objectively fast, it is designed and built for fun in a sporting manner.
I've had several sports cars, and I'd say most would past the "true sports car" test referenced a few posts ago. I've had more Porsche 944 variants than anything else (944T's, 968's). That said......this car replaced an E60 generation M-Sport 535i with straight pipes and tuned to about 380 horsepower. Actually still have it, and took it on a few a couple of weeks ago.
Not really fair to compare it to the Porsches, half of which were race cars with full cages, spherical bearing suspensions, and stupid expensive dampers (as in $5000/set). Those absolutely handled better, but outside of a little bit of time before I caged the first one, no time on the street. The M3 seems somewhat on par with the two sport suspension optioned ones I have driven (M474 and M030 if anyone knows what that means), but it is more firm than the base suspensions. Of course the wheelbase will make them totally different.
Best comparison is the BMW. The M-Sport basically has the M5 suspension, but not the engine. And like I said, no cat downpipes and a tune for about 380hp. And the M3P absolutely feels more firm and go-kart like than the 5. The 5 is a lighter car, 3600 lbs, but the Tesla feels much lighter, and is much more fun to drive. An M3 would probably be a better comparison, as it is closer in size to the M3P. The 5's seats (the multi contour of whatever the option is called) are infinitely better than the M3P's. But the driving dynamics of the M3P blow away the 5.
Comparing it to a ponycar is, IMHO, laughable. I drove several when I worked for Ford, as I used to do engine development up there, most of the time it was for a Mustang engine. Had a 2000 GT. Those are all very, very soft compared to the M3P. I used to be really into Merkur XR4Ti's if anyone knows what those are. Even teh one I had with stiffer springs, Koni's, and PU bushings all around didn't handle as well as the M3P. It may be the best car i've owned to compare, as far as size and everything goes. It was very lightweight, 2900lbs, and I had it up to 330 horsepower. But again, it just didn't compare. Actually, I had a Mazdaspeed6 for a while, too. It may have felt most similar, appointment wise, but it felt very heavy compared to the Tesla, even though it weighed 500 fewer pounds.
I've never driven the Tesla on a track, and I'm not one to drive at twice teh speed limit, so I can't speak to the high speed stability. But for a street car, it is the most fun one I have ever owned, by a pretty wide margin. I'm not big on dual purpose cars, I tracked two of my Porsches as street cars, but generally prefer the safety of a cage and 6 point restraint on the track. So I can't really compare for that purpose.
Not really fair to compare it to the Porsches, half of which were race cars with full cages, spherical bearing suspensions, and stupid expensive dampers (as in $5000/set). Those absolutely handled better, but outside of a little bit of time before I caged the first one, no time on the street. The M3 seems somewhat on par with the two sport suspension optioned ones I have driven (M474 and M030 if anyone knows what that means), but it is more firm than the base suspensions. Of course the wheelbase will make them totally different.
Best comparison is the BMW. The M-Sport basically has the M5 suspension, but not the engine. And like I said, no cat downpipes and a tune for about 380hp. And the M3P absolutely feels more firm and go-kart like than the 5. The 5 is a lighter car, 3600 lbs, but the Tesla feels much lighter, and is much more fun to drive. An M3 would probably be a better comparison, as it is closer in size to the M3P. The 5's seats (the multi contour of whatever the option is called) are infinitely better than the M3P's. But the driving dynamics of the M3P blow away the 5.
Comparing it to a ponycar is, IMHO, laughable. I drove several when I worked for Ford, as I used to do engine development up there, most of the time it was for a Mustang engine. Had a 2000 GT. Those are all very, very soft compared to the M3P. I used to be really into Merkur XR4Ti's if anyone knows what those are. Even teh one I had with stiffer springs, Koni's, and PU bushings all around didn't handle as well as the M3P. It may be the best car i've owned to compare, as far as size and everything goes. It was very lightweight, 2900lbs, and I had it up to 330 horsepower. But again, it just didn't compare. Actually, I had a Mazdaspeed6 for a while, too. It may have felt most similar, appointment wise, but it felt very heavy compared to the Tesla, even though it weighed 500 fewer pounds.
I've never driven the Tesla on a track, and I'm not one to drive at twice teh speed limit, so I can't speak to the high speed stability. But for a street car, it is the most fun one I have ever owned, by a pretty wide margin. I'm not big on dual purpose cars, I tracked two of my Porsches as street cars, but generally prefer the safety of a cage and 6 point restraint on the track. So I can't really compare for that purpose.
addictedtocars
Member
Should have kept the Merkur ,what a classic. Nice collection of cars.
It's horses for courses.
Model 3 Performance
City/everyday: 10/10
Touring: 7/10
Country roads: 5/10
Honda S2000
City/everyday: 5/10
Touring: 5/10
Country roads: 10/10
Megane RS cup-chassis
City/everyday: 6/10
Touring: 6/10
Country roads: 9/10
M-sport 135i 4 door hatch
City/everyday: 8/10
Touring: 8/10
Country roads: 7/10
Model 3 Performance
City/everyday: 10/10
Touring: 7/10
Country roads: 5/10
Honda S2000
City/everyday: 5/10
Touring: 5/10
Country roads: 10/10
Megane RS cup-chassis
City/everyday: 6/10
Touring: 6/10
Country roads: 9/10
M-sport 135i 4 door hatch
City/everyday: 8/10
Touring: 8/10
Country roads: 7/10
MasterC17
Active Member
I owned many BMW's prior to a Tesla, most of which were a variant of the M3 or M5. I'll admit, I do (at times) miss the sound of an ICE and the excitement associated with shifting yourself.
However, most of the time, I really do not miss these things. There's also so many benefits to the 3 (AutoPilot for long road trips, cost of maintenance, cost of energy, convenience, etc) I would never go back.
If you feel the P3D+ is too soft, just upgrade to some MPP Sports Coilovers. They're effectively a KW V3 and should resolve your concerns. The P3D+ also runs relatively thin tires for the weight (benefits range), so upgrading to wider summer tires might also help (255's or so).
The Model 3 might not do everything great, but it does some things great, and nearly everything else good. I feel like the amount of compromise with the 3 is much less than you would get with basically anything else.
However, most of the time, I really do not miss these things. There's also so many benefits to the 3 (AutoPilot for long road trips, cost of maintenance, cost of energy, convenience, etc) I would never go back.
If you feel the P3D+ is too soft, just upgrade to some MPP Sports Coilovers. They're effectively a KW V3 and should resolve your concerns. The P3D+ also runs relatively thin tires for the weight (benefits range), so upgrading to wider summer tires might also help (255's or so).
The Model 3 might not do everything great, but it does some things great, and nearly everything else good. I feel like the amount of compromise with the 3 is much less than you would get with basically anything else.
Dolemite
is my name
That's the way I feel about it. At the end of the day, when you add "daily drivability" to the list of criteria, it absolutely destroys anything else out there. With EVs, you don't have to compromise between a car that's stupid fast & feeling like a moron idling a 550 HP engine in stop & go traffic for 90% of its existence. It's perfectly practical to commute in the new Tesla Roadster, or CyberTruck, if you felt like it.
But I would be lying if I said that I don't miss some of that stuff... So I may end up with a toy Miata/BRZ in the future.
I have an E60 M5 and 993 Carrera S.. I agreed with your statement when I picked the car up.. installed coilovers and haven't looked back.. the E60 is for sale..
I got rid of my supercharged/intercooled '94 Corvette convertible (~500RWHP) to make room in the garage for my P3D-. After many $$$$$ in mods and repairs, not to mention impossible to get a consistent launch, I decided to "save money" by getting a P3D.
I did keep my Gen 1 Acura NSX for the days I miss a high revving, two seater to cruise around town in.
I did keep my Gen 1 Acura NSX for the days I miss a high revving, two seater to cruise around town in.
jkoya
NA2 NSX
'92 NSX, red on black. Looks like new with minimal mods, aftermarket rims, carbon fiber spoiler and stainless "pretzel" exhaust. On the negative (for some) it's an automatic but surprisingly faster than most 5-6 spd nsx's I've lined up against. Lol, I tell my friends I've got the rare "automatic" one.
I came from a heavily modified Lexus IS350. Obviously stock it was too soft even with the sport suspension, so I installed a track coilover set that was so stiff that you needed a kidney belt to drive it on Boston roads
.The ride was so harsh that my wife almost refused to ride in it. Its tracking was pretty impressive, but when I go back and drive it I'm amazed at how the Model 3DMP with the MPP sports coilover set handles actually better defined in terms of more controllable at the limit, easier to rotate and control/predict rotation and even slightly higher limits and it's simply in a different Universe in terms of ride and comfort. And in terms of responsiveness to accelerator inputs, the two cars are just in a different universe. Even though the IS350 with the minimal amount of tuning that you could do to it could get to 60 miles an hour in about 4.6 seconds according to dragy, it feels glacial compared to the performance model 3.
Get the MVP Sports coilover kit is the short form of a long story if you want better transient response, better control over pitching and pogoing that the stock car sometimes can show, and if you want the car to feel really locked down. This also allows you to dial in more stiffness on the track or if you like an extremely firm ride, and set to softer settings it still provides better control than the stock setup. Then get a set of really lightweight preferably forged Wheels because actually that improves both the handling and the ride. And if you're interested in best performance on the street make sure you either keep your Michelin Pilot Sport 4S or get those tires in the Tesla specification.
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The 'no noise' business is actually huge plus because you can really hear what the tire patches are doing. Previously that was just about impossible with lots of noise from the engine. As for poor steering feel I couldn't disagree more. I'm assuming from your description you have a stock suspension car. Get the MPP sport coilover kit. It's a game changer.
I switched from a Chevy SS sedan with a manual. I think that is still my favorite overall car. Fun to drive, tons of room for the kids. The suspension was awesome and the 6060 was a nice transmission.
All that said I wasted most of it on a commute and the gas bills were crazy. So I switched to the P. Its a much better commuter and faster getting on it.
All that said I wasted most of it on a commute and the gas bills were crazy. So I switched to the P. Its a much better commuter and faster getting on it.
I looked at those when they first came out. There was no manual to be had. I bet it was nice with a stick.
jkoya
NA2 NSX
Very nice NA1 and very rare indeed !! According to NSXPrime, only 45 Red/Black automatics were made in 92...
I was less than 1 second behind a tube chassis WRX('Model T' !?) 1600lb on slicks on a ~70 second course. Got PAX by >200 over nice SMF Civic....old version track mode p3- on 265 RE71R's
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