M3P - Who switched from a (true) sports car?

[E.Potter]

Having had a subaru 202 and R32....I'd say it's on par with them in a way....the skyline was just a presence dominator...not that fast as it was pretty stock...the subaru however was a beast...would probably be right up there off the line with the M3P....at 500 HP but the weight was around 2400Lbs... there were only 400 made and I had Number 77.

we had other cares though worth mentioning...Ferrari F430 (my dads), saturn ion (supercharged from factory in Japan), 95 NSX

These were in the caribbean BTW...not here in the US

 

[raptor5244]

We made 7:44 BTG there on M3P. It's not a stock suspension or brakes or tires, but I doubt that Hellcat can come anywhere close even with those mods.

Supposedly the 2017 SRT Hellcat did a 7:51 around the ring stock. I would imagine the newer wide-body models with improved suspension, 305 rubber on all corners and the Redeye gets 797hp could put down an eve better time. They are heavy but the newer wide-body suspension handles the weight surprisingly well. However, the Hellcats are pretty pricey IMO.

I traded my M3P last year for a Camaro ZL1 before GM stops making them and goes all electric.

The better muscle/track car for the money is the Camaro. The ZL1 put down a 7:29 and the ZL1 1LE with DSSV suspension and Supercar 3R tires did a 7:16 even with a manual transmission. For comparison the C8 Corvette with Z51 did a 7:29. All three of these cars can be had for $65-75k, making them great values for the performance they offer.

Looking forward to see if the new Z06 can beat 7:00, which would be incredible.

 

[Chados]

Excellent retort to not being able to articulate a constructive sentence to continue a debate with. I appreciate you bowing out.

I'll respond in two parts, first if you look at the structure of my response I claimed it can sway opportunity in "both ways" so I'm confused on how you took that as an opportunity to mistakenly claim I'm defending the Hellcat solely. I'm simply stating that comparing a track time that's within a margin of 3 seconds, there is a lot of potential outcomes based on conditional and realistic factors that we can not control locally when testing the vehicles. I only pointed out that the Hellcat's skid pad numbers are higher than the Model 3 Performance's, agree - disagree or indifferent, it holds true.

Additionally, the Hellcat Charger performed the Nurburgring in 8:58 while the M3P did it in 9:00, we can find anecdotal evidence of these cars battling over one another all over, hence why I am challenging climate/environmental and talent factors of the drivers.

Further into this, Laguna Seca might be 105' but density altitude plays a large role in combustion vehicle performance as every 100ft increase slows a vehicle down by .01 seconds, here is a current chart of the DA in Laguna where you can witness large variations - WeatherTech Raceway Laguna Seca - Weather History from Air Density Online.

Don't take my challenging comments as misconstrued, I'm aware that I am on a Tesla forum and the bias is going to sway heavily as such. I love my M3P and what is provides, it does exceptionally well and very predictable but the Hellcat is literally stupid fun and there is no doubt that the times it's putting down is a direct reflection of the power the car makes.

Did I read this right that the 3P is only two seconds slower on the ring than a Hellcat?

Not too shabby!

 

[raptor5244]

Did I read this right that the 3P is only two seconds slower on the ring than a Hellcat?

Not too shabby!

I don't think that is accurate. If you search you will see reports of Hellcats running 7:51.

The list here has the M3P at 9:00, which means a VW GTI is faster?

List of Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[terranx]

I don't think that is accurate. If you search you will see reports of Hellcats running 7:51.

The list here has the M3P at 9:00, which means a VW GTI is faster?

List of Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If you click on the citation for that time, it's this video

I know tracks are a weakness for EVs, but I wouldn't use a non-professional's time as a benchmark.

 

[MountainPass]

This thread turned into a strange bench racing competition. If you want to compare the Tesla against other cars, keep in mind that the high speed/high power tracks will always be in favor of an ICE car. The Ring especially. You can easily cherry-pick comparisons where the Tesla is better or worse based on this.

 

[tm1v2]

I thought this thread was supposed to show and celebrate other fun-to-drive cars that we came from (or maybe still have). Not for putting other's past cars down just because they might or might not have been capable of lapping a given racetrack faster than an M3P.

If anyone wants to share their *personal* lap time comparisons in their M3P vs their previous/other cars, that seems very on topic. Otherwise please move the bench racing and trash talking elsewhere.

 

[SFLM3P19]

lets keep it to facts then....the only thing that would get me out of my Loaded Mountain Pass Model 3 Performance would be a GT2 RS......

I think im being forced to sell the m3p for a X Plaid.. im not upset, MPP should be able to make that the best SUV on the planet.
(child 2 on the way)( not upset about driving the wifes new Carli Megacab)

 

[drpheta]

The thing about the M3P is it's allowed us to move to an EV w/o feeling like we're missing out on anything compared to high performance ICE vehicles. I've had my fair share of fun in my own or me hooning around in my buddies' high performance cars. There will always be cars that do X or Y better than the M3P, but I'm in a freaking EV that's just as (if not more) fun and exhilarating to drive as all those other HP cars and is incredible to look at.

 

[Vixcin]

Hi! I also have a 09 SL63, not switching, but def a big difference!

 

[.Slug]

The thing about the M3P is it's allowed us to move to an EV w/o feeling like we're missing out on anything compared to high performance ICE vehicles. I've had my fair share of fun in my own or me hooning around in my buddies' high performance cars. There will always be cars that do X or Y better than the M3P, but I'm in a freaking EV that's just as (if not more) fun and exhilarating to drive as all those other HP cars and is incredible to look at.

^^ This. Couldn't agree more.

 

[Mash]

The thing about the M3P is it's allowed us to move to an EV w/o feeling like we're missing out on anything compared to high performance ICE vehicles. I've had my fair share of fun in my own or me hooning around in my buddies' high performance cars. There will always be cars that do X or Y better than the M3P, but I'm in a freaking EV that's just as (if not more) fun and exhilarating to drive as all those other HP cars and is incredible to look at.

M3P is very good dual purpose car. I wouldn't mind Plaid drivetrain and battery though. Plaid itself is too big and not sport suspension geometry.

 

[drpheta]

M3P is very good dual purpose car. I wouldn't mind Plaid drivetrain and battery though. Plaid itself is too big and not sport suspension geometry.

That's pretty much been on my "wish I had" list as well. I'm hoping all the suspension giblets are identical between our current M3P and any Plaid version in the future. Would make upgrading to a Plaid much easier for me if I can transfer all these parts.

 

[terranx]

M3P is very good dual purpose car. I wouldn't mind Plaid drivetrain and battery though. Plaid itself is too big and not sport suspension geometry.

Even one of the plaid motors would probably go a long way. My biggest complaint of this car is the acceleration drops off a cliff at higher speeds.

 

[SFLM3P19]

M3P is very good dual purpose car. I wouldn't mind Plaid drivetrain and battery though. Plaid itself is too big and not sport suspension geometry.

is the geometry itself that much different? like angles and lengths of travel in the suspension?

 

[MountainPass]

is the geometry itself that much different? like angles and lengths of travel in the suspension?

Since it has air-ride, there isn't as much camber or toe change under compression as the Model 3. This is why our camber kit includes spacers to change the rear suspension geometry to promote more camber under compression.

 

[Young Phenom]

Model 3 Plaid would be insane.

 

[raptor5244]

The thing about the M3P is it's allowed us to move to an EV w/o feeling like we're missing out on anything compared to high performance ICE vehicles. I've had my fair share of fun in my own or me hooning around in my buddies' high performance cars. There will always be cars that do X or Y better than the M3P, but I'm in a freaking EV that's just as (if not more) fun and exhilarating to drive as all those other HP cars and is incredible to look at.

I am still in a transition... I have a Model 3 but I also have a performance ICE based vehicle. The Model 3 does all the daily driving. It is quick, efficient, great tech, comfortable, etc. but for some enthusiasts it lacks a lot of engagement and any sort of visceral experience, if you like that sort of thing.

By the way, did you guys see this review of the BMW i4? I like their no-nonsense, highly technical reviews.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

I am still in a transition... I have a Model 3 but I also have a performance ICE based vehicle. The Model 3 does all the daily driving. It is quick, efficient, great tech, comfortable, etc. but for some enthusiasts it lacks a lot of engagement and any sort of visceral experience, if you like that sort of thing.

By the way, did you guys see this review of the BMW i4? I like their no-nonsense, highly technical reviews.

Fake sounds!!? So That’s a sarcastic ’no nonsense’ I hope
I love racing my 3 up hills!
Mary hill
Performs identical to these with less ‘drama’ & I get music to race to

This is a different type of toy. 10% quicker(at least)

 

[thill444]

I am 50 and have owned a lot (and I mean a lot) of "sports cars" over my life. I worked my butt off as a kid and bought a used RX-7 at age 16 as my first car. I owned nothing but RX-7's (all gens) and a twin turbo 300Z for the first 12 years of my driving life. Big JDM guy. Owned several German sports cars (all with manuals) and a number of WRX/STI's. Briefly owned a BRZ, Focus RS and then recently owned a C7 Z51, GT350, ND1 Miata, Camaro SS1LE, and a MKV Supra. Had a C8 on order and then test drove the Surpa and fell in love. The Supra was my very first automatic and my favorite car I have owned in quite awhile (I never connected with the GT350 or Z51 from a driver's perspective, really liked driving the SS1LE but never connected with the exterior styling/interior). The Supra had everything I was looking for. I usually do 2-5 track days a year with my cars and a few auto-x events a year when I can. I usually mod the suspension of everything I buy

Shifted to a work from home job and when I do drive now I am hauling kids. As much as I liked the Supra I never drive it unless it's quick errands. I was considering the new G80 M3/M4 but we have two other PHEV vehicles (I have a 4xe Wrangler and my wife a Pacifica Hybrid) and I became intrigued with electric motors. Drove a Model YP (neighbor) and was very impressed. Ordered a Model 3P slightly after and here I am.

Initial impressions. Car drives lighter than it is (likely do to the 50/50 weight and batteries being so low). Steering is heavy and has a synthetic feeling but I like the initial turn in and response. Some body roll but the car is well controlled and balanced. Compared to other cars I have owned I find the suspension to be a touch too soft, but with my kids in the car it is comfortable, especially on crappy CT roads.

That torque. Car pulls so hard down low and from a dig I have a hard time getting the car to lose traction. I love the instant torque at nearly every speed when you hit the accelerator. Passing people even on a large incline is nothing with this car. I love the sightlines with the short sloped front end and compared to cars like the Supra and Camaro and Vette, the car has so much more visibility.

I love the seating position. You sit low but the seats are comfortable. I do wish they had more side bolstering though and offered something like a true more aggressive Recaro seat. I also love magnetic dampers found on my C7 and GT350. I really wish Tesla offered an option for magnetic dampers on the Model 3P. It would match well with their tech and ability to adjust constantly to the road and driving profiles.

I want to drive it stock to at least one track event or auto-x event so I can baseline stock vs changes. Leaning towards some coilovers (likely MPP) and some bushing upgrades along with maybe some camber arms. Nothing too crazy as I will be driving kids a lot in this car.

I will say the biggest issue. My wife. She never touched my other cars and will not stop driving the Tesla. We have put 1K miles on it in the past couple weeks and she has logged about 70% of them. She loves the car and fights me to drive it

In terms of "sports car". I am not sure where the Tesla sits for me. While you lose the visceral feel of the exhaust and I sometimes miss shifting gears (or even paddle shifting) the car is really fun to drive and plenty nimble for it's weight/size. I think with a few minor mods I will like it even more.