M3P - Who switched from a (true) sports car?

[raptor5244]

I am 50 and have owned a lot (and I mean a lot) of "sports cars" over my life. I worked my butt off as a kid and bought a used RX-7 at age 16 as my first car. I owned nothing but RX-7's (all gens) and a twin turbo 300Z for the first 12 years of my driving life. Big JDM guy. Owned several German sports cars (all with manuals) and a number of WRX/STI's. Briefly owned a BRZ, Focus RS and then recently owned a C7 Z51, GT350, ND1 Miata, Camaro SS1LE, and a MKV Supra. Had a C8 on order and then test drove the Surpa and fell in love. The Supra was my very first automatic and my favorite car I have owned in quite awhile (I never connected with the GT350 or Z51 from a driver's perspective, really liked driving the SS1LE but never connected with the exterior styling/interior). The Supra had everything I was looking for. I usually do 2-5 track days a year with my cars and a few auto-x events a year when I can. I usually mod the suspension of everything I buy

Shifted to a work from home job and when I do drive now I am hauling kids. As much as I liked the Supra I never drive it unless it's quick errands. I was considering the new G80 M3/M4 but we have two other PHEV vehicles (I have a 4xe Wrangler and my wife a Pacifica Hybrid) and I became intrigued with electric motors. Drove a Model YP (neighbor) and was very impressed. Ordered a Model 3P slightly after and here I am.

Initial impressions. Car drives lighter than it is (likely do to the 50/50 weight and batteries being so low). Steering is heavy and has a synthetic feeling but I like the initial turn in and response. Some body roll but the car is well controlled and balanced. Compared to other cars I have owned I find the suspension to be a touch too soft, but with my kids in the car it is comfortable, especially on crappy CT roads.

That torque. Car pulls so hard down low and from a dig I have a hard time getting the car to lose traction. I love the instant torque at nearly every speed when you hit the accelerator. Passing people even on a large incline is nothing with this car. I love the sightlines with the short sloped front end and compared to cars like the Supra and Camaro and Vette, the car has so much more visibility.

I love the seating position. You sit low but the seats are comfortable. I do wish they had more side bolstering though and offered something like a true more aggressive Recaro seat. I also love magnetic dampers found on my C7 and GT350. I really wish Tesla offered an option for magnetic dampers on the Model 3P. It would match well with their tech and ability to adjust constantly to the road and driving profiles.

I want to drive it stock to at least one track event or auto-x event so I can baseline stock vs changes. Leaning towards some coilovers (likely MPP) and some bushing upgrades along with maybe some camber arms. Nothing too crazy as I will be driving kids a lot in this car.

I will say the biggest issue. My wife. She never touched my other cars and will not stop driving the Tesla. We have put 1K miles on it in the past couple weeks and she has logged about 70% of them. She loves the car and fights me to drive it

In terms of "sports car". I am not sure where the Tesla sits for me. While you lose the visceral feel of the exhaust and I sometimes miss shifting gears (or even paddle shifting) the car is really fun to drive and plenty nimble for it's weight/size. I think with a few minor mods I will like it even more.

Nice writeup, you summed it up well.

Sounds like you are addicted to cars, same here. The upcoming manual trans option in the 2023 Supra has me intrigued but then there is the new Nissan Z.

 

[thill444]

Nice writeup, you summed it up well.

Sounds like you are addicted to cars, same here. The upcoming manual trans option in the 2023 Supra has me intrigued but then there is the new Nissan Z.

Yes I love cars, pre-Covid I usually bought barely used ones as you could save a ton. Those days are over and I have one teen who will have his license this summer and two more teens not far behind. So need to buy a kid car. Needless to say the Tesla will have to do for a few years unless the startup I am at goes public and money is not an issue

 

[Old Stewball]

I'm a 25-year PCA member, have owned 8 different Porsches, the last a 991 GT3, along with a Zink Formula Ford, A LeGrand D-Sports racer, a Lotus 7 clone with a Honda S2000 engine, and a SBC-powered Ultima GTR. I'm changing to a M3P because I'm getting old and my days at the big tracks are over, gas prices are stupid high, Porsche has driven me away with price increases and a greedy dealer network putting ADMs on new cars, along with the crazy run-up in the old 911 air-cooled car values. Haven't gotten my car yet, but I did get to drive a student's Tesla roadster over a decade ago while instructing with PCA, and my test drive of the M3P model indicated to me that it would be a comfortable daily driver and possibly an interesting performance car for the occasional autocross or sprited mountain drive. My wife has been driving electric since 2011 (Leaf and then a Bolt) and pushed me in the EV direction.

 

[dfwatt]

I am 50 and have owned a lot (and I mean a lot) of "sports cars" over my life. I worked my butt off as a kid and bought a used RX-7 at age 16 as my first car. I owned nothing but RX-7's (all gens) and a twin turbo 300Z for the first 12 years of my driving life. Big JDM guy. Owned several German sports cars (all with manuals) and a number of WRX/STI's. Briefly owned a BRZ, Focus RS and then recently owned a C7 Z51, GT350, ND1 Miata, Camaro SS1LE, and a MKV Supra. Had a C8 on order and then test drove the Surpa and fell in love. The Supra was my very first automatic and my favorite car I have owned in quite awhile (I never connected with the GT350 or Z51 from a driver's perspective, really liked driving the SS1LE but never connected with the exterior styling/interior). The Supra had everything I was looking for. I usually do 2-5 track days a year with my cars and a few auto-x events a year when I can. I usually mod the suspension of everything I buy

Shifted to a work from home job and when I do drive now I am hauling kids. As much as I liked the Supra I never drive it unless it's quick errands. I was considering the new G80 M3/M4 but we have two other PHEV vehicles (I have a 4xe Wrangler and my wife a Pacifica Hybrid) and I became intrigued with electric motors. Drove a Model YP (neighbor) and was very impressed. Ordered a Model 3P slightly after and here I am.

Initial impressions. Car drives lighter than it is (likely do to the 50/50 weight and batteries being so low). Steering is heavy and has a synthetic feeling but I like the initial turn in and response. Some body roll but the car is well controlled and balanced. Compared to other cars I have owned I find the suspension to be a touch too soft, but with my kids in the car it is comfortable, especially on crappy CT roads.

That torque. Car pulls so hard down low and from a dig I have a hard time getting the car to lose traction. I love the instant torque at nearly every speed when you hit the accelerator. Passing people even on a large incline is nothing with this car. I love the sightlines with the short sloped front end and compared to cars like the Supra and Camaro and Vette, the car has so much more visibility.

I love the seating position. You sit low but the seats are comfortable. I do wish they had more side bolstering though and offered something like a true more aggressive Recaro seat. I also love magnetic dampers found on my C7 and GT350. I really wish Tesla offered an option for magnetic dampers on the Model 3P. It would match well with their tech and ability to adjust constantly to the road and driving profiles.

I want to drive it stock to at least one track event or auto-x event so I can baseline stock vs changes. Leaning towards some coilovers (likely MPP) and some bushing upgrades along with maybe some camber arms. Nothing too crazy as I will be driving kids a lot in this car.

I will say the biggest issue. My wife. She never touched my other cars and will not stop driving the Tesla. We have put 1K miles on it in the past couple weeks and she has logged about 70% of them. She loves the car and fights me to drive it

In terms of "sports car". I am not sure where the Tesla sits for me. While you lose the visceral feel of the exhaust and I sometimes miss shifting gears (or even paddle shifting) the car is really fun to drive and plenty nimble for it's weight/size. I think with a few minor mods I will like it even more.

Enjoyed your write-up and resonated with many of your sentiments and overall impressions. There is an easy solution to your dilemma. His and Hers Tesla Performance Model 3s. Particularly if they are heavily tuned up with Mountain Pass Performance parts. We got the first of these cars in the summer of 2018, the gray one which became my wife's car - I was so blown away by the collective genius of the whole car and its systems, realizing that we'd be fighting over the thing and I got a second one that became mine. The Next Step was to properly tweak them. This contained some surprises too - with my wife insisting that anything I did to open quotes pimp out close quotes my car I had to do to hers too!

So both cars have MPP coilover kits, mine the Sport kit set a little firmer on the shocks, hers the Comfort Adjustable kit with shocks set at the default values. Both cars have the amazing lower front control arm bushing from MPP which really seriously improves steering feel and feedback without adding any grain or harshness, and my car has all the camber, trailing, traction and toe arms they offer, while my wife's car just has the rear camber arms. Both cars have forged VS 14 with Pilot Sport 4S tires. As I'm sure by now you've already heard, MPP is the best and Sasha and Jesse are both technically exceptional and terrific guys. Their customer service is just as exceptional as their stuff

Collectively all of this stuff makes a huge difference in the car's handling and responsiveness, such that the cars turn in is now as responsive as its point and squirt acceleration and I would say my wife's car also rides significantly better than the stock car. My car is a bit firmer bordering on stiff but still not uncomfortable. But this way everybody gets a car that they love, nobody gets stuck with a crappy ICE vehicle - you can as it turns out have your cake and eat it too! Especially with our getting the last of the free unlimited supercharging cars, so everywhere we drive we don't pay for gas (electrons), while our friends are groaning under the impact of $5 a gallon. Biggest operating expense? Well it's actually replacing those expensive Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires which works out to about $0.03 a mile. Strongest possible endorsement is not simply that this is the most fun car I've ever driven and that includes several iterations of Ferraris Porsches etc, but that my wife who was no version of a car person loves her Tesla. Still loves driving it, and as she said yesterday, "punching it just doesn't get old!" All this tweaking and tuning of course wasn't cheap but it was money well spent, and actual maintenance has been pretty close to zero. Alignments and biannual brake bleeds.

 

[KingRuth]

I’m a recent covert. Good time for a first post!

Model 3:

Amazing instant acceleration. Superb throttle response and control that no ICE can match.
It creates a giggly face all the time, and you don’t need to send the battery into any fancy warm up mode and you don’t need a 4 step launch control process. The simplicity of just being able to mash the pedal all the time any time it’s something that is not nearly talked about enough. It’s simply nuts.

Interior is nicer than I expected. It doesn’t feel cheap to me and I have had very nice cars. It doesn’t have the special feeling of a Porsche or the premium materials and build but I wouldn’t say it’s cheap looking or feeling.

I love the minimalist approach to the interior and exterior. I thought it would take some getting used to as well as having the speedometer kind of off to the side but it really doesn’t bother me at all.

It’s a little nosier than I expected at highway speeds but not as bad as people say really as long as your windows are sealed up properly.

I like it’s size over the model S.

I like the infotainment. Its intuitive.

Handling is great. It’s sporty, but for being just a plain old all around shock system without all of the active/adaptive gobbledygook it’s pretty good honestly. I also appreciate the fact that if I have to replace some parts for maintenance it’s not gonna cost $4000 to replace air or magnetic suspension. I do think adaptive shocks would be a game changer for the model 3 as a performance option though.

Seats are super comfortable and I love the white interior.

For the price it should have powered trunk and frunk release.

Interior carpets are a bit non- premium.

Overall as a daily there isn’t much to criticize. It just simply blows away 90% of everything on the road 90% of the time with no drama. I’ve driven some amazing performance sedans and no the model 3 doesn’t have the poise at the edge of your driving skills as a german super sedan…..but 99% of the time that is a completely irrelevant issue. I literally never drive my cars on a track or in a way that can take advantage of what say my Panamera Turbo S could give you (although if you do what a Panamera can do is mind boggling..).

There are spread sheets in magazines, and YouTube head to heads in a controlled environment, and then there are the realities of traffic, crappy streets, potholes and general driving conditions that a Tesla is just very well suited for. I am surprised that then went with 20” wheels though S good as they look!!!


If it was a little quieter and had a bit more dynamic driving modes available I think it would gobble up even more of the performance sedan buyers. A Little more range without as much performance loss as the battery drains and it will be hard to go back to ICE for me ever again.



Last few cars as daily drivers, most recent prior to Model 3 Performance:

2016 GTR full E85 bolt on
I mean what can I say a blast. A bit rough for a daily. A bit too loud on the highway. MPG was rough…. Gets too much attention. Its loud and clunky and is sort of like driving an old muscle car that isn’t an old car. I was always kind of worried about something breaking though nothing did. Better as a weekend toy. The 2017 + models have a vastly improved interior. The pull of 600 wheel hp and tq at highway speeds is hard to describe….


2012 Panamera Turbo S
Best interior of any car I’ve owned. By far. Transmission is clunky at low speeds but perfection the more aggressive you get. Just superb handling, no surprise, and likes to be driven to the edge more than the RS7. 4 years no issues other than the heated steering wheel crapped out. Super expensive to have fixed if it breaks but they usually don’t. Just a fanatical car that I didn’t want to own as a high mileage car out of warranty….not at an original $200,000 sticker.


2014 RS7
Great daily driver. Fantastic smooth transmission. Great daily driving suspension- not too stiff. Great infotainment. A little buggy. Brakes way too expensive and very high maintenance schedule.



2014 SRT Jeep
Fun practical vehicle with a fantastic exhaust note. Super fast for what it is. Pretty good interior. Rides a little story gf and is very loud on the highway. Good infotainment.


2011 CTS V Coupe
Mag ride is fantastic for daily use. Get car for it’s time. Nothing bad to say about it. I’d like a manual version some day.

@ArchEtech are you still around? Do you miss the gtr?

 

[RefreshedP]

The performance is a one trick pony. Brutal 0-60 punch. That's it. You need to invest in some coilovers and brakes to even out the package imo.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

The performance is a one trick pony. Brutal 0-60 punch. That's it. You need to invest in some coilovers and brakes to even out the package imo.

For how much the car weighs it handles great though. Definitely need good coils and tires. It slays at Autocross and hill climbs + bracket racing and drives itself…4 tricks at least. I haven’t been beaten by a sports car ever on a hill climb, only given up king to built race cars

 

[Watts_Up]

I haven’t been beaten by a sports car ever on a hill climb, only given up king to built race cars

Did you use the Track mode to lock the 4 wheel drive?

I don't have a Performance Model 3 and I wish that I could get more traction from the from drive in curvy roads, especially on a wet or snowy surface.

 

[dfwatt]

Did you use the Track mode to lock the 4 wheel drive?

I don't have a Performance Model 3 and I wish that I could get more traction from the from drive in curvy roads, especially on a wet or snowy surface.

Track mode does not 'lock' the four wheels. Indeed it allows more wheel slip.

 

[Watts_Up]

Track mode does not 'lock' the four wheels. Indeed it allows more wheel slip.

I was thinking that you could adjust the power transfer between the front and the rear,
and to remove ttraction conytrol, to allow you doing drifting and powersliding.

Did you experienced any latency from the front drive activation on a wet or snowy surface, in curvy roads?

 

[Lindenwood]

The performance is a one trick pony. Brutal 0-60 punch. That's it. You need to invest in some coilovers and brakes to even out the package imo.

Given the same tires, thousands in brakes and suspension would only yield maybe a 5% reduction in times on an AutoX course. This isn’t insignificant, and I won’t pretend ithe driver feel would be great with such a setup, but it’s far from a “one trick pony.”

Brakes are really only needed for pushing hard in a road course.

 

[RefreshedP]

Given the same tires, thousands in brakes and suspension would only yield maybe a 5% reduction in times on an AutoX course. This isn’t insignificant, and I won’t pretend ithe driver feel would be great with such a setup, but it’s far from a “one trick pony.”

Brakes are really only needed for pushing hard in a road course.k. for reference. I'm not talking about a smooth.

K. I'm purely referencing aggressive street driving. This car gets so unbalanced when pushing it on a tight twisty road it's borderline scary. Hands down the worst handling vehicle of any performance car I've ever owned.

 

[Lindenwood]

Fair enough!

 

[SBD47]

The performance is a one trick pony. Brutal 0-60 punch. That's it. You need to invest in some coilovers and brakes to even out the package imo.

I agree the stock suspension sucks, but the M3P is an absolute bargain right now at $44k after rebates. No dealer markups. No dealership/Finance Office hassle. Invest in lighter/wider wheels, good rubber, and some coilovers and it’s a weapon on the street/track.

 

[dfwatt]

Did you use the Track mode to lock the 4 wheel drive?

I don't have a Performance Model 3 and I wish that I could get more traction from the from drive in curvy roads, especially on a wet or snowy surface.

If you're pushing your car on the Curves on Snowy surfaces you need a whole lot more than better traction control.

 

[Watts_Up]

If you're pushing your car on the Curves on Snowy surfaces you need a whole lot more than better traction control.

My question was regarding a way to have the front motor always on, and not activated only after detecting some rear wheels slippage?

The Kia EV6 provides such feature. So I wonder if having the front and rear motor all the time activated would provides better handling on curvy roads?

About driving on snow, Bjørn Nyland tested driving on snow and made some interesting videos on this subject:

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How Tesla Model 3 AWD system works on snow​

Dec 3, 2019​

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Model 3 launch in snow with different modes​

Feb 20, 2020​

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Add "Snow Mode" on Tesla Model 3, please​

Dec 21, 2020​

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2021 Tesla Model 3 driving on snow​

Dec 31, 2020​

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Tesla Model 3 LR Snow Mode demo and explanation​

Feb 4, 2022​

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