Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Mach E RWD range 370 miles

MARKM3

Member
Dec 5, 2018
152
136
Raleigh
Only Tesla doesn't show a 15-30% difference between WLTP and EPA range figures.

Audi E-Tron lost 50 miles vs WLTP testing, assuming Mustang Mach E the same that puts the EPA range @ 323 miles minimum. So instead of the 250 mile GT it would be 275 miles and 300 miles for the AWD.
 

Big Earl

bnkwupt
Supporting Member
Jul 12, 2017
5,943
11,158
Springfield, VA
I hear better.

The point being is, they can report whatever set of numbers is most convenient to their cause but what matters is what the end consumer sees.

They advertise the numbers for whatever region is relevant. In the case of the article in the original post, the region is Europe and they're reporting WLTP range. In North America, they would report EPA range.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
13,124
21,639
NC
Audi E-Tron lost 50 miles vs WLTP testing, assuming Mustang Mach E the same

Given they share roughly 0 parts, why would that assumption make any sense?

The Taycan turbo loses almost 80 miles from WLTP to EPA numbers.

Because, weirdly enough- Entirely different cars produce entirely different results from each other when run through 2 totally different test cycles.


Keep in mind, Ford plans to send the MAJORITY of Mach E production to Europe for at least the first full year of production, so it wouldn't be shocking if they tuned the car to do extra-well on the European mileage test cycle too.
 

M3BlueGeorgia

Active Member
Dec 10, 2018
1,400
1,283
Atlanta, GA
Read the article and it says they promise to reach that in the WLTP test, not that it's what they achieved unless I'm blind.

Porsche and Audi had similar "aspirational" range targets pushed out by their Marketing Departments, ahead of the real range achievements, which were a lot nastier.
 

Msjulie

Active Member
Jun 26, 2016
2,448
1,809
Monterey Peninsula
It's good there are more competitors. I recall initial reviews of the iPace as well as the Audi and Mercedes; all way lower range than predicted. Not hard to see why at least some of the cause; Tesla seems to take aero more serious than the others. Then there is Tesla's electric motors, seemingly ahead of the curve in efficiency there as well, and battery tech etc.

I hope some other manufactures get serious about decent electric car options, unlike the (to me) disgustingly laughable Electric Hummer. I know not everyone shares this sentiment though: Electric or Not, Big SUVs Are Inherently Selfish
 
  • Informative
Reactions: M3BlueGeorgia

TomB985

Member
Apr 15, 2019
446
575
Isanti, MN
I hope some other manufactures get serious about decent electric car options, unlike the (to me) disgustingly laughable Electric Hummer. I know not everyone shares this sentiment though: Electric or Not, Big SUVs Are Inherently Selfish

That's a really narrow-minded way of looking at it.

Remember not everyone is on board with driving something like a Tesla. Lots of folks like their trucks and SUVs, whether we like it or not. These people would likely continue driving gas guzzlers that harm everyone if there weren't an electric option.

So you can either have progress with an electric SUV you don't agree with, or throw your hands in the air, cast stones, and have none at all.
 

MARKM3

Member
Dec 5, 2018
152
136
Raleigh
Given they share roughly 0 parts, why would that assumption make any sense?

The Taycan turbo loses almost 80 miles from WLTP to EPA numbers.

Because, weirdly enough- Entirely different cars produce entirely different results from each other when run through 2 totally different test cycles.


Keep in mind, Ford plans to send the MAJORITY of Mach E production to Europe for at least the first full year of production, so it wouldn't be shocking if they tuned the car to do extra-well on the European mileage test cycle too.

Ford Mustang Mach-E will launch in Europe at same time as U.S.
 

Msjulie

Active Member
Jun 26, 2016
2,448
1,809
Monterey Peninsula
That's a really narrow-minded way of looking at it.

Remember not everyone is on board with driving something like a Tesla. Lots of folks like their trucks and SUVs, whether we like it or not. These people would likely continue driving gas guzzlers that harm everyone if there weren't an electric option.

Like I said, not everyone is onboard with that articles viewpoint.

So you can either have progress with an electric SUV you don't agree with, or throw your hands in the air, cast stones, and have none at all.

No hands thrown nor stones cast, why the histrionics?

I've found large SUVs distasteful since forever, so hiding behind the 'greenness' of making something like an EV Hummer is disingenuous in my book.

At Fully Charged live 2 weeks back I asked the Chevy rep why China got more GM EV models than the US (I know why, they have to to sell them to be allowed in the world's largest market) the person tried to share her marketing excitement with me over the new Hummer coming. Huh? That's gonna help transition the general population to greener transport yep it sure is.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
13,124
21,639
NC


Not sure why you think that disputes anything I told you.

They're "launching" in both places- but the majority of production is going to Europe.

In fact on the contrary your source confirms what I suggested about Ford specifically tuning a special euro-version that would be the one getting the WLTP number


YOUR source said:
Ford says engineering teams in Europe were involved from the outset in developing a European version of the Mustang Mach-E. They’ve tuned suspension, steering, electronic stability control and all-wheel-drive settings for the particulars of Europe


So as nonsense as your earlier guesses at EPA #s were from the WLTP target, they make else less sense in light of that.

Thanks for confirming it :)
 

bxr140

Active Member
Nov 18, 2014
2,991
4,753
Bay Area
It’s not 70 and sunny and calm everywhere so those numbers are meaningless.

Bollocks.

Normalized metrics are one of the most meaningful ways to compare data sets like these. If two cars perform similarly in a standardized environment, they're going to perform pretty similarly across the Gaussian distribution of environments, at least on the first order.

Passengers understand that head/tail winds change the ticketed arrival time for their flights. Scientists don’t complain when they’re using STP. Truck drivers know that a big load is going to be worse fuel economy than an empty one.
 

MARKM3

Member
Dec 5, 2018
152
136
Raleigh
Bollocks.

Normalized metrics are one of the most meaningful ways to compare data sets like these. If two cars perform similarly in a standardized environment, they're going to perform pretty similarly across the Gaussian distribution of environments, at least on the first order.

Passengers understand that head/tail winds change the ticketed arrival time for their flights. Scientists don’t complain when they’re using STP. Truck drivers know that a big load is going to be worse fuel economy than an empty one.

Yeah, I don't understand how the Mach E will see a huge decrease in WLTP testing vs the model 3 only seeing 5% less. Someone has some explaining to do on that one lol. Otherwise, looks like the Mach E will see somewhere around 330-350 miles EPA.
 

MARKM3

Member
Dec 5, 2018
152
136
Raleigh
Not sure why you think that disputes anything I told you.

They're "launching" in both places- but the majority of production is going to Europe.

In fact on the contrary your source confirms what I suggested about Ford specifically tuning a special euro-version that would be the one getting the WLTP number



Thanks for confirming it :)

Ok, and your point is????
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
13,124
21,639
NC
Yeah, I don't understand how the Mach E will see a huge decrease in WLTP testing vs the model 3 only seeing 5% less. Someone has some explaining to do on that one lol. Otherwise, looks like the Mach E will see somewhere around 330-350 miles EPA.


Because they're entirely different cars with entirely different battery, motor, and aero specs.

As already pointed out to you, some EVs get fairly close WLTP and EPA... others get VASTLY different WLTP and EPA....and still others are somewhere in the middle.


You have literally zero information to go on about the Mach E other than guesses from Ford.

The ones of THOSE we have directly contradict your own assumptions

Ford is claiming 373 in WLTP

Ford hasn't suggested any EPA target for any version of the Mach E higher than 300 miles (and most are significantly lower)

That's a loss of near 20%.

from Fords own numbers

Which- again- are the nearest to "real" info we actually have.



And as a reminder, that'd still be less of a loss than we've seen in some other non-Tesla EVs so such a loss isn't at all unlikely- in fact it's VERY likely since ford is telling us those numbers


(that's apart from the fact Ford apparently needs a 20% larger battery to still not quite reach the mileage tesla manages with smaller ones)





Ok, and your point is????

That once again even your own source contradicts you and supports those telling you you're wrong.

Yet once again you seem literally incapable of admitting it.

Just like the previous times you got caught doing this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mnevar and outdoors

MARKM3

Member
Dec 5, 2018
152
136
Raleigh
That once again even your own source contradicts you and supports those telling you you're wrong.

Yet once again you seem literally incapable of admitting it.

Just like the previous times you got caught doing this.

Not sure why you had to point out they will sell more in Europe than America? Is that even a question? Europe is a huge market for EV's. They are releasing in both countries at the same date.

And you pointed out more are going to europe, why??? It said in the article they are tuning the vehicle, just like they will tune it for America. All automakers do that on all vehicles, lol.
 

thx1139

Active Member
Aug 1, 2014
1,272
4,725
Lemont, IL
Not sure why you had to point out they will sell more in Europe than America? Is that even a question? Europe is a huge market for EV's. They are releasing in both countries at the same date.

And you pointed out more are going to europe, why??? It said in the article they are tuning the vehicle, just like they will tune it for America. All automakers do that on all vehicles, lol.
Releaseing and fulfilling orders are 2 different things. They can sell 1 unit per month in USA and sell 1000s in Europe. They released at the same time. Ford has stated that the majority of production will be going to Europe. That is at least 50% + 1 but likely more because of environmental regulations in Europe.
 

MARKM3

Member
Dec 5, 2018
152
136
Raleigh
Releaseing and fulfilling orders are 2 different things. They can sell 1 unit per month in USA and sell 1000s in Europe. They released at the same time. Ford has stated that the majority of production will be going to Europe. That is at least 50% + 1 but likely more because of environmental regulations in Europe.

Right, and charging stations are widespread in Europe. America needs to roughly double their EA network before I would consider it to Europe's level, it will be there in two years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Msjulie

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top