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Mach E RWD range 370 miles
- Thread starter MARKM3
- Start date
Because Europe is a more successful market for EV's, America has not adopted it like Europe due to government regulations. Bescides the point - If they can manage 315+ EPA range it will be a huge shot to the model Y.
A lot of people do not like the design of that vehicle. It's still a very expensive car.
Not the point you start a thread about March-E now getting 370 miles range and when people mention that Ford is going to ship most of the 1st year production to Europe you push back that they making available in US as well at same time. No one is denying that. Just pointing out that for regulation purposes and I assume fleet average range Ford is going to send most of 1st year production to Europe.
Has nothing to do with charging stations. I will believe it when I see it that any of the big manufacturers are a huge shot to any Tesla vehicle when they actually release. Here we are in 2020 and NO car yet released by other manufacturers get a 2012 Model S range. And if it is going to take Ford using a 100kwh battery to get the 300 (or more range) then that is going to push the Mach-E to the loss leader category for Ford. Then they also have the whole dealer issue to deal with. Dealers dont want to sell EV cars. They dont produce much recurring service revenue.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
It seems to be since you've previously suggested this would be a serious competitor to Tesla in the US. In fact, you called it a "game changer"
And if they're only shipping 1/20th the # of cars here- that's not much competition. And certainly doesn't change the game.
China is actually the largest... where the Model 3 is being built and sold locally now.
Nothing on the Mach E there though- so it's obviously not a case of "biggest market first" for Ford.
Do they?
Can you tell us, specifically, what tuning of the types listed by the Ford engineer that Tesla does on a euro Model 3 vs a US one?
Because as far as I know NONE of the items Ford listed as being euro-tuned are any different for Teslas between the US and Europe.
So by all means- please support your claim.... for once....
It's what he does every time someone notices he's wrong about something and he won't admit it. Move goalposts or change subject.
what intelligent person in Europe would want to buy a Ford?
no way it hell will sell better in Europe, or is there a huge fan base of Ford that I am unaware of?
Tesla changes the charge port, seating configuration, regulations are different with safety requiring different safety placards, vehicle styling with lights, etc. There is a ton that every car manufacturer has to tune that I'm not even listing. Lets not get too far off topic, and I love how you keep saying "changing the goalpost". It is easy to make unsubstantiated claims, why don't you actually add to the conversation instead of being so defensive?
Ford is very popular worldwide, have you seen their European sales? They sale over 900,000 vehicles a year in Europe alone - way more than Tesla sales. This car is appealing to a lot of people.
When I was on a summer exchange program in France back in the late 80's, the family that I was staying with was convinced Ford was a German brand. I had to explain the whole Henry Ford history to them. Oh, they also thought there were 52 states since they double-counted Alaska and Hawaii.
Fortunately, we now have the internet and hopefully people are more "in the know" than they were back in the 80's.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
But none of those were the things Ford said they were tuning for Europe-which included things that could actually impact rated range.
So when you said "It said in the article they are tuning the vehicle, just like they will tune it for America. All automakers do that on all vehicles"
That, like so much of what you say, isn't actually true, and "all" companies don't neccesarily "tune" those items as Ford is doing. Tesla certainly doesn't.
Says the guy who keeps changing the topic.
No- you change topics.
You move goalposts.
Jesus you can't even get that right.
As you keep proving as that's almost the entirety of your posts in this and the other Ford thread you started.
And every time someone debunks those claims with solid facts and sources, you move the goalposts or change the topic.
I have. By calling your your half or zero truth claims repeatedly, usually with sourced facts debunking them.
For example when I debunked your "If WLTP is 373 they'll clearly do a lot better than 300 EPA" nonsense using fords own claims to do so
Which, as always, you promptly ignored and tried to change the subject after.
Speaking of changing the topic....
But hey let's get back to those FACTS you hate.
We know for a FACT Ford is incapable of producing more than about 1/20th the number of Mach Es as compared to how many EVs Tesla will produce over roughly the same period.
We know that because Ford, themselves, have told us that.
Hence why your original idea the Mach E "changes the game" is utter nonsense.
Especially when besides producing 1 for every 20 EVs Tesla does over 2020 and 2021 they will also:
Need 20% more battery to still not delivery comparable range....
They won't be launching with OTA updates for car-functions just infotainment...
They're launching (in the US anyway) with a much inferior fast charging network... (and slower charging speed on top of that)
They're launching with functional inferior driver assist features...
and on and on...
Again- the Mach E will- much like the Bolt and Leaf, A relatively low-volume, "good", EV that widens the game a little bit but doesn't really change it. Especially when most of the things that are at all interesting about it compared to those other 2 are things Tesla already has and usually has better versions of.
It'll be a reasonable alternative, in particular for those who want something with some kick to it which the Bolt and Leaf lack (but Tesla delivers in spades)... and those are always great to have given total "good" EV demand exceeds supply... but that's about it.
Game changer? You've made 0 useful or fact based arguments to support that original premise.
I am so confused now.
So...not intelligent people wanting Ford's?
I will say that at least Ford cars seem a bit better than they used to be. The Mach E shares a lot of lines from a Tesla. looks like a 3/ S combo w/ a nose cone.
not any game changers though. I think Chevy is closer to that w/ the mid engine vette
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I gave you your out on that post, I guess you didn't wanna take it. Tesla has to adjust the suspension for Europe, as European regulations force auto makers to change the height of the vehicle and the headlights have to be a certain height off the ground. That again is just one example of many, but you chose to keep digging. Fine by me, but Ford tuning all of those things is certainly not just something they do and it has nothing to do with altering the range of the vehicle.
Wow, you posted all of that to try and sway me from Ford? Nah, pass. At least ford will fix my paint problems, be 15 minutes away, not take 4 months for a parking sensor, have plenty of range to meet my needs, and be a much better looking vehicle than a model y. That is my preference. Tesla can't built decent cars. They just have good technology and a fun car to drive. When I pick up the phone for service, the person who sold me my car will answer.
Wow! Just Wow! I have never had nor wanted the salesperson that sold me a car answer. Now I have been buying new cars since 1989 and never wanted to talk to sales people ever, especially when taking a car in for service. See up until my Model S this is how I bought cars.
Researched the cars we were interested in. Found out how much they cost to produce and what the markup was. Call (later email) multiple dealers and have the sales person give me the best price. I then would have to establish that I knew the details. Pick the dealer with the best offer. Inform the dealer I dont want to deal with the BS when we arrive to take delivery. Still arrive and have them try to up-sell me try to sell add-ons. Tell me I need to talk to manager before we close the sale. Have the manager try to get add-ons, etc. Finally close the sale. Phew. Just a whole lot of wasted time. Now I have owned. Chryslers, Fords, GM, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and Lexus vehicles. They all do the same thing. I even to this day get service department for our remaining Chevy Volt calling me every 6 months telling me it is time for an oil change when the car tells me it isnt because the car is very rarely driven with gas. Yet the service dept wants $.
The Tesla experience is more then a breath of fresh air. I went online ordered the car went to the delivery center signed a few documents. Spent a few minutes going over the car. Hell I spent more time showing new interested buyers the car then anyone at Tesla trying to sell me extra stuff.
My service experience has been even better and has improved. I tell 2 stories about service. The day we were moving to our new house we were using the S to move fragile and expensive items rather then mover move them. I made the 1st trip to the new house. When I went back to the car the driver door handle wouldnt present. Was oh crap what a pain. I called the service center and told them the situation. Told them I couldnt bring the car in and was counting on it to move stuff. They sent out a brand new performance model S to the old house and picked up our S. I used the loaner to move most of the day. Then they met me back at the new house and swapped out the cars.
More recently another door handle stopped presenting itself. It was rear passenger so not a big hurry. One day I was watching a YouTube video and it was about service and how now when car detects and issue it will contact service and order the part automatically. It reminded me. So I opened the app on my phone and went to create a service appt. Within a couple of minutes the app was able to determine that mobile service would work for the issue and schedule an appt less then a week later. When the tech arrived all I had to do was back out the car from the garage. He also mentioned that he had the parts for the Tekata airbag recall and the Bolt recall and he could handle that at the same time. All in all he spent like 30 minutes in my driveway.
Simply put I have never experienced better service in my life then with Tesla and never felt that they were trying to suck up $ when I took the car in for service.
So, you felt obligated to call around to all the dealerships, finding the best price? That is great and wonder why you did that.... You do realize in the year 2020, that all car dealerships have their prices listed online. You do not need to call, simply google the car you want with the exact specs and find it. I had much better experiences at dealerships than I did when getting my Tesla Delivered and serviced over the past year.
I can guarantee you, Tesla service doesn't touch Lexus service you are just fooling yourself xD. It doesn't even touch any manufacturers service level! Tesla currently has about the worst service I've ever experienced with a car manufacturer. Wonder Why? Oh and If I think one service center is bad, I have to drive four hours to the next closest one.
A lot of this "dealer hatred" is total bull crap and manufactured by people who do not understand how to purchase a car. If you don't know what you want, a salesman is going to sale you. If you know what you want, going to the dealership is as painless as going to the grocery story to get grocery. Last car I bought took me about 2 hours from start to finish, paying cash. Easy as can be.
PLUS they purchased my trade in at fair value. How great is that? Tesla won't take my vehicle unless it's a Tesla, and they don't even do state inspections at their service center. WTF?
I have been purchasing cars since 1989. I did say call and later email. Of the non-Tesla luxury autos I have owned BMW was the best with service. Of the 3 only BMW washed the car everytime we brought it in. Mercedes was the worst. My Mercedes was the biggest money pit I have ever owned. I have forced my will on sales people in the past and they still put me through trying to sell extra stuff like rust-proofing, carpet protection, car washes, etc, etc. Every single one of the dealership had the sales people pull the well I have to take you to my manager so we can skip the extra stuff. This is a guilt trip they try to pull. I simply tell them if you want any hope of me purchasing from them again they will end this quick. 2 hours? Thats nuts. That would piss me off. My Tesla deliveries have been 20 minutes tops.
List of brand new cars I have purchased. Yeah I have some experience buying cars.
Eagle Talon
Dodge Intreprid
Multiple Dodge Caravan's
Ford Freestar
Pontiac Montana
Lexus IS
Lexus ES
BMW 5 series
Mercedes R series
Chevy Volt
Toyota Camry
Tesla Model S
Tesla Model 3
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I'm happy you've had good experience with Tesla, I can speak for my behalf and on the behalf of many and it is public information that Tesla service isn't anywhere close to other OEM's.
Mercedes are known just like Range rovers to be expensive. Some models of certain brands are worse than others within that same brand, ICE vehicles are much more complicated than a Tesla.
Of course, salesman all do that. I tell them no I'm not interesetd and they move on. They understand if you communicate with them that you just want the car and go home. They will still pitch it, because about 50% of people hear the pitch and say yes.
I do not have access to Tesla mobile service, closest service center is two hours away. Also, when my car was delivered it was in a parking lot with no amenities they were so far behind I waited for an hour past my appointment time before they could start with me, Upon immediate inspection I had paint issues that they said I had to email to get solved. The poor guy had no idea what the car did, I knew more about it then he did. You could tell he was just hired.
Car has squeaks and rattles, none of my previous vehicles had them as bad as my Model 3 does. Been to service 3 times over that issue, it keeps coming back. Additionally they can't give me a rental car for spending $60,000, they give me $100 uber credits which is useless when you live two hours away.
I have no story like this when purchasing from legacy automakers. None. Sure, I don't like when salesmen try to sale add ons, but when 50% of people buy the crap they do it because consumers eat it up. I can understand in that regard.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
<citation needed>
I've seen threads about the actual LIGHTS being different- but not about the suspension.
Can you source this claim? (specifically for Tesla that is)
No, it's one (so far unsourced) example of one.
Feel free to provide SOURCED examples if you have any.
You don't think ride height of an EV has anything to do with the range of the vehicle?
Will they?
I ask because something like 1/3rd of all Ford dealers in the US aren't going to sell or service the Mach E.
At all.
Why would you call a sales guy to get service? Those are entirely different departments.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
They do.
If you actually PAY those prices you're an idiot though.
You'll still need to do your research, then contact the various dealers, and see what their real cheapest price actually is. This'll require some research on your part as well since some are now doing really shady stuff to hide profit like adding mandatory protection packages (that often vary in content from one to the next) or not breaking down any MFG discounts they're rolling into your price, etc.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
<citation needed>
Fixed your post for you.
But seriously- if you don't have time (or apparently the ability) to prove ANY claim you make- you should probably stop making them.
Wow, so now you're an idiot for paying the lowest internet price in the country for a Vehicle? You do realize, the cost of living, supply/demand, and many more variables effect the true price of selling a Vehicle? Tesla is pricing the vehicle to make them a profit, no matter where you live. If you think you are getting Tesla's best price, you're fooling yourself. Especially since the Mach E is cheaper and will be sold through a dealership network.
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