Made a couple small changes to the Cybertruck. Thoughts?

[CMoZ]

Yes it is. Just as much as Range Rovers “monocoque” is also unibody.

Not accurate the Range Rover is not a true monocoque it’s a traditional unibody and their marketing has slightly abused the term referring to a monocoque frame the Cybertruck is a Monocoque vehicle. The Ranger River is a unibody monocoque frame meaning specifically the unibody is one piece that bears the forces of the vehicle. Body panels then bolt on to that frame. The Cybertruck is a true monocoque as the body panels and the frame are one thing, not a one piece frame that body panels bolt to, there’s no unibody involved in the cybertruck.

notes

no currently sold vehicle is a true monocoque. unibody vehicles can be considered semi-monocoque but to be true monocoque they need to be free of things like box sections, bulkheads, etc ( I’m looking at you torque boxes) Despite this unibody frames are often incorrectly referred to as monocoque in the automotive industry this is 100% incorrect even in the case of the Range Rover


tldr
Range Rover : semi-monocoque unibody frame. Body panels on top
Cybertruck: true monocoque vehicle no unibody as the body panels are part of the monocoque

 

[ricohman]

Not accurate the Range Rover is not a true monocoque it’s a traditional unibody and their marketing has slightly abused the term referring to a monocoque frame the Cybertruck is a Monocoque vehicle. The Ranger River is a unibody monocoque frame meaning specifically the unibody is one piece that bears the forces of the vehicle. Body panels then bolt on to that frame. The Cybertruck is a true monocoque as the body panels and the frame are one thing, not a one piece frame that body panels bolt to, there’s no unibody involved in the cybertruck.

notes

no currently sold vehicle is a true monocoque. unibody vehicles can be considered semi-monocoque but to be true monocoque they need to be free of things like box sections, bulkheads, etc ( I’m looking at you torque boxes) Despite this unibody frames are often incorrectly referred to as monocoque in the automotive industry this is 100% incorrect even in the case of the Range Rover


tldr
Range Rover : semi-monocoque unibody frame. Body panels on top
Cybertruck: true monocoque vehicle no unibody as the body panels are part of the monocoque

If the CT get any internal bracing (lower sills, firewall, rear bulkhead) in effect it becomes a unibody. Or some hybrid in between.

 

[Ehninger1212]

So, Uni-body and Monocoque fall into the same category for automobiles. They both Make up a structural Shell rather than a traditional body on frame. They are both very similar in construction. However as Elon Musk said about the Cyber truck, the exterior "Stressed Skin" is providing the bulk of the structural integrity. If you compare that to a body on frame, the frame makes the bulk of the structural integrity, but the body cant just be a flimsy mess. So of course the Cybertruck will get extra internal bracing. But the Skin will be taking the brunt of the force exerted on the truck. If that remains true the CyberTruck is in fact a monocoque.

 

[ricohman]

So, Uni-body and Monocoque fall into the same category for automobiles. They both Make up a structural Shell rather than a traditional body on frame. They are both very similar in construction. However as Elon Musk said about the Cyber truck, the exterior "Stressed Skin" is providing the bulk of the structural integrity. If you compare that to a body on frame, the frame makes the bulk of the structural integrity, but the body cant just be a flimsy mess. So of course the Cybertruck will get extra internal bracing. But the Skin will be taking the brunt of the force exerted on the truck. If that remains true the CyberTruck is in fact a monocoque.

Even unibody vehicles used stressed skin. The rear quarters are a great example.

 

[coleAK]

Not accurate the Range Rover is not a true monocoque it’s a traditional unibody and their marketing has slightly abused the term referring to a monocoque frame the Cybertruck is a Monocoque vehicle. The Ranger River is a unibody monocoque frame meaning specifically the unibody is one piece that bears the forces of the vehicle. Body panels then bolt on to that frame. The Cybertruck is a true monocoque as the body panels and the frame are one thing, not a one piece frame that body panels bolt to, there’s no unibody involved in the cybertruck.

notes

no currently sold vehicle is a true monocoque. unibody vehicles can be considered semi-monocoque but to be true monocoque they need to be free of things like box sections, bulkheads, etc ( I’m looking at you torque boxes) Despite this unibody frames are often incorrectly referred to as monocoque in the automotive industry this is 100% incorrect even in the case of the Range Rover


tldr
Range Rover : semi-monocoque unibody frame. Body panels on top
Cybertruck: true monocoque vehicle no unibody as the body panels are part of the monocoque

So you have seen the sub frame of the cyber truck? Pretty confident talk.

Monocoque/exoskeleton/unibody - It’s all vehicle structure in which the chassis is integral with the body

 

[Ehninger1212]

Even unibody vehicles used stressed skin. The rear quarters are a great example.

Right, and thats where the lines can get blurred a bit. Eitherway those vehicles are still Unibody. They have a Sub-Frame taking the bulk of the stress. A monocoque would not have a subframe taking the bulk of the stress, it could still have a sub frame though in order to attach components. Its not about how the thing LOOKS its about how it FUNCTIONS.

Regardless of the back and fourth about definitions, what Elon Musk described is literally a monocoque. So we can infer that is what is what the cybertruck is going to be made of.

 

[EVDRVN]

I guess they are not using stainless steel anymore.

 

[ricohman]

Right, and thats where the lines can get blurred a bit. Eitherway those vehicles are still Unibody. They have a Sub-Frame taking the bulk of the stress. A monocoque would not have a subframe taking the bulk of the stress, it could still have a sub frame though in order to attach components. Its not about how the thing LOOKS its about how it FUNCTIONS.

Regardless of the back and fourth about definitions, what Elon Musk described is literally a monocoque. So we can infer that is what is what the cybertruck is going to be made of.

Most unibody vehicles do not use subframes.

 

[Ehninger1212]

Most unibody vehicles do not use subframes.

lol what?

 

[chphilo]

If I had choice between these two configurations, I would choose the first one.

I think the reason why we had immediate WTF reaction was primarily because of what we are accustomed to. Now I have been looking at the CT pictures a lot, the second picture looks strange, like something is missing.

 

[ricohman]

lol what?

As a bodyman, subframe is either a rollaway or a bolt on.
We do not consider front rails as "subframes". As they are part of the structure.
This is defined by the manufacturer and the insurance company, not me.
If I'm pulling lower rails or front rails straight these are considered part of the body. A rollaway subframe on an F body or a Neon bolt on is labelled as such.

 

[coleAK]

Giving it more thought, by definition exoskeleton is a zoologic term and only in the true definition apples to animals. So its basically a term that Tesla made up, the truck has an “exoskeleton” not an exoskeleton. I’m surprised it’s not called X-Osk3L. Arguing about how all this how it applies to a truck that none of us have any idea of what is under the SS body panels is pointless.

Basically if it’s not a body on frame or an airplane fuselage It’s some variation of a unibody.

And my thought on why this construction over a body on frame? same reasons Honda Ridgeline, grandcherokee/ML/GL, cayenne/Atlas/Q8, Explorer, Land Rover,... the first is weight, big double box frames are HEAVY and EV drivetrains are HEAVY, im guessing it saves 1000+lbs. 2nd cost, unibody is much less expensive to produce due to less parts involved in the process. 3rd safety, I applaud Tesla for a focus on safety and with unibody the crumple zones are much better and easily integrated and energy gets dispersed over a larger area of the vehicle then with a massive steel frame running front to back.

 

[Ehninger1212]

As a bodyman, subframe is either a rollaway or a bolt on.
We do not consider front rails as "subframes". As they are part of the structure.
This is defined by the manufacturer and the insurance company, not me.
If I'm pulling lower rails or front rails straight these are considered part of the body. A rollaway subframe on an F body or a Neon bolt on is labelled as such.

Understood, but a ton of vehicles still use sub-frames. like a lot. Tesla does on all of the vehicles they have in production, on there Unibody chassis. Which Elon Musk is clearly differentiating the CyberTruck from when he describes the "exoskelton". Which could still us sub frames to attach components.

 

[dhrivnak]

So while I agree it looks more traditional, I gave it a disagree as you will be cutting out a good bit of the strength, the nice fold up bed cover that could double as a solar panel and you lose the side tool boxes. Which to me are far more important than a traditional look.

 

[ricohman]

Understood, but a ton of vehicles still use sub-frames. like a lot. Tesla does on all of the vehicles they have in production, on there Unibody chassis. Which Elon Musk is clearly differentiating the CyberTruck from when he describes the "exoskelton". Which could still us sub frames to attach components.

I see what you mean. The cradles and subframes on a unibody actually add rigidity to the structure. Especially the engine cradles.

 

[CMoZ]

I see what you mean. The cradles and subframes on a unibody actually add rigidity to the structure. Especially the engine cradles.

I kind of agree. The reason I’m harping on the unibody term is because the characteristics of what we know today as a unibody bear no resemblance to what’s been done on the cybertruck the way it’s put together doesn’t have a lot if any f the internal structures EVERY current unibody has wether they’re bolted together or welded all existing unibody vehicles have components that are parts of the traditional body on frame design but attached to more parts of the chassis. The CT does not do this making a stressed skin “unibody” by definition is using the exterior part of that chassis not the interior parts to bear forces so in my opinion throwing around the term unibody is needlessly confusing and leads to misconceptions of the structure because unibody has meant 1 specific thing for so long that again bears little to resemblance to the CT structure

 

[coleAK]

I kind of agree. The reason I’m harping on the unibody term is because the characteristics of what we know today as a unibody bear no resemblance to what’s been done on the cybertruck the way it’s put together doesn’t have a lot if any f the internal structures EVERY current unibody has wether they’re bolted together or welded all existing unibody vehicles have components that are parts of the traditional body on frame design but attached to more parts of the chassis. The CT does not do this making a stressed skin “unibody” by definition is using the exterior part of that chassis not the interior parts to bear forces so in my opinion throwing around the term unibody is needlessly confusing and leads to misconceptions of the structure because unibody has meant 1 specific thing for so long that again bears little to resemblance to the CT structure

Are you on the design team? Do you know for sure what structure is/isn’t under the body panels? Does Tesla even know what it will be at production? And there are many variations of a unibody construction, But basically the definition of unibody is: A vehicle structure in which the chassis is integral with the body. This Definition fits what you are arguing the “exoskeleton” is.

 

[CMoZ]

Are you on the design team? Do you know for sure what structure is/isn’t under the body panels? Does Tesla even know what it will be at production? And there are many variations of a unibody construction, But basically the definition of unibody is: A vehicle structure in which the chassis is integral with the body. This Definition fits what you are arguing the “exoskeleton” is.

Well by that definition nothing is a unibody yet. The problem is the idea of a unibody as the term is used was strictly to differentiate from the other main option Chassis on Frame. The description is vague enough by your assertion that a parachute would qualify as unibody. So to get exact on things

- in your mind exactly what parts of the vehicle are/aren’t the body
- how much of the body needs to be integral before it becomes a unibody?

im saying fine at this point unibody may actually be technically correct by that incredibly broad definition but the issue is that based on all available 1st hand descriptions, accounts and specifications nothing about the cybertruck resembles a unibody as we understand it today and I argue that to refer to it as a unibody is needlessly confusing and doesn’t accurately convey how different it actually is structurally from what we call a unibody today

mans to answer your initial specific questions

- no
- Mostly
- yes

 

[SeanReynoldsCS]

PLEASE DO THIS FLAT ROOF...
This would change the cover to be flat, and give a rear window with a real mirror.

If they don't give a real mirror they MUST do parallax vision with a fish eye camera using head tracking... a rear camera is not a substitute for a mirror.

If they do this, then I believe you will hav no more criticism on style and looks.

 

[azjohn]

If they do this, then I believe you will hav no more criticism on style and looks.

Tesla doesn't care about criticism, they innovate