You suggested people run to Mommy Government before even talking to Tesla. That's horribly irresponsible and is not coincident with the "rule of law". That's tattling without giving someone an opportunity to work it out.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
You suggested people run to Mommy Government before even talking to Tesla. That's horribly irresponsible and is not coincident with the "rule of law". That's tattling without giving someone an opportunity to work it out.
Re-read my 1st post in this thread, #14. I even quoted it later on. Also re-read Right front door popped open while driving, my first post in that thread.
Regardless of whether the automaker resolved the issue, if it was not user error and a defect/failure occurred that resulted in a safety issue, the safety issue occurred and that would be enough for a safety complaint. It happened. However, it would obviously lack info on what was done to resolve it, making it not a great report.
Ok, but the folks who did get their safety issue resolved should report the incident and resolution to NHTSA, right?
Side note: During the 1st occurrences of the Leaf battery degradation on hot climates (e.g. Phoenix), a bunch random folks kept wanting to file NON-safety complaints (e.g. battery degradation) w/NHTSA. I had an argument w/a bunch of folks there (some at My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11) and beyond) as to why they thought that was even appropriate. Didn't seem like I changed their mind.
Oddly enough, IIRC, some folks did contact NHTSA and they seemed to be ok w/non-safety complaints coming in on that issue.
Last edited:
Re-read my 1st post in this thread, #14. I even quoted it later on. Also re-read Right front door popped open while driving, my first post in that thread.
Regardless of whether the automaker resolved the issue, if it was not user error and a defect/failure occurred that resulted in a safety issue, the safety issue occurred and that would be enough for a safety complaint. It happened. However, it would obviously lack info on what was done to resolve it, making it not a great report.
Ok, but the folks who did get their safety issue resolved should report the incident and resolution to NHTSA, right?
Side note: During the 1st occurrences of the Leaf battery degradation on hot climates (e.g. Phoenix), a bunch random folks kept wanting to file NON-safety complaints (e.g. battery degradation) w/NHTSA. I had an argument w/a bunch of folks there (some at My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11) and beyond) as to why they thought that was even appropriate. Didn't seem like I changed their mind.
You have every right to file as many complaints as you desire. Most people here seem to think saving the time for the limited number of regulators they have for the serious safety issues is likely a better use of resources. Most here don't seem to think it is a safety issue as well (major annoyance and inconvenience definitely). You may disagree. If everyone in the US filed every defect with the NTSHA their usefulness would be quickly lost. If Tesla Model Ss are being stranded left and right then yes, filing and forcing Tesla to deal with the issue if they refused would be appropriate. They haven't shown a history of ignoring major issues yet so I'd give them a chance.
While I'm a fan of identifying and solving all true safety-related issues, I'd absolutely give Tesla the first shot at fixing issues before going to the NTSHA. Two reasons: First, its been my experience that the engineers at Tesla have been extremely responsive to all problems that come to their attention. Maybe its because of their relatively small size or their tech-savvy approach to problem solving, but they seem to lead the auto industry in problem identification and solution. Second, many problems can be seen by one owner as an annoyance and seen as a severe safety issue to another. The NHSHA would be overwhelmed if everyone went to them directly with these problems. They have to address every issue in the US auto industry and having to sort out the serious issues from the annoying ones is daunting as is. Bottom line, let Tesla know first. Chances are that they already know and are working on a solution before you notify them.
I think some of these "most people" don't have the proper context re: car safety recalls, which I've tried to provide.
Reread posts #1, #7. Assuming the poster at Car delivered yesterday, died 10 times today, stranding my family. is legit, all of these ARE absolutely safety-related defects. Millions, but likely tens of millions and maybe even hundreds of millions of cars have been and are still being recalled for possibly stalling or possibly losing power. Besides the Google queries I suggested earlier, search for stall and power at Recalls & Defects | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). Also Google for site:nhtsa.gov safety stall recall.
What happens if this loss of power happens while on a busy highway w/no ability to pull over? You could get rear ended and injured or killed. What about if that happens when you're merging onto on a highway or trying to pass on two lane road w/1 lane for each direction? Losing power resulting in being stopped in the middle of an intersection is also dangerous.
I totally disagree w/your last point. I see nothing to gain by withholding filing a safety complaint w/NHTSA after the problem has been repaired. It could delay a recall from happening. As others had argued w/me on MNL, NHTSA should be properly staffed to handle whatever level of incoming safety complaints there are.
I did NOT like the weirdo on MNL encouraging people to (essentially) clog up NHTSA w/non-safety complaints when the S in NTHSA stands for Safety.
BTW, there's no requirement that problem be necessarily systemic, widespread or happening "left and right" for there to be a recall. Only 13 units were subject to recall at Small Number of Jaguar XF Models Recalled for Faulty Fuel Pumps | J.D. Power. 6 were affected by Mitsubishi recalls small number of 2013 I-MiEVs - Autos.ca. 157 were affected by Honda recalls small number of 2012 Civic models for improper steering column - Autoblog.
I'm not sure I can agree w/your bolded statement. With cars being shipped out w/such these things happening and major subsystems being replaced (e.g. entire HV battery pack), I'm not so sure about that.
As for NHTSA being overwhelmed... there aren't that many Teslas in the world. Compare the fewer than 20K Model S shipped vs 2012 - Dont Call It A Comeback Edition - Autoblog. Seems like NHTSA can handle the volume from the entire US auto industry...
The problems I pointed out earlier in posts 1, 7 and the other thread are absolutely safety issues.
Seems like some folks here believe they're "protecting" Tesla by not reporting legitimate safety defects to NHTSA. Again, look at the bar by which other cars have been recalled and compare these incidents.
Last edited:
Do you own a Model S? If you want to file a compliant, you have every right. Will reporting a car stalling to the NTHSA speed Tesla along or make them spend more time in paperwork? If you found a very serious safety issue (don't consider stalling one-yes, you could get hit by a car or even a falling boulder) then file away. Why not give Tesla time to address it and if they don't, then file? Would a tire blowing out on the highway (newer tire) prompt a NTHSA investigation into the tire manufacturer? A blown tire at highway speeds is more dangerous than a stalling car that gradually slows down.
I don't think any of us will convince you. You think the NTSHA should be sent a complaint for any potential issue immediately and I think giving Tesla a chance to address the more minor issues first makes sense. Anyway, this is kind of going in circles at this point.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Actually most people report to the NHTSA when the manufacturer/dealer does NOT repair/acknowledge the problem. If people are satisfied with the repair and feel the manufacturer has adequately addressed the issue, they would not feel the need to report it.
And you are assuming the NHTSA is the primary or only place where manufacturers track incident reports (you keep suggesting that not reporting to the NHTSA will possibly delay a recall). However, Tesla has done two voluntary recalls before and neither time were there any related NHTSA complaints. It's much quicker to notify the company (service center/dealer at minimum, and escalate to corporate if it's a serious safety issue) directly rather than going through the NHTSA (which from a document I read results in a 100 day delay because the NHTSA is simply not staffed enough to handle the workload). And even for a lot of mandatory recalls, the first and majority of the report of problems tend to come from dealer or manufacturer reports. I saw on of the recent Ford recalls and they had about 100 NHTSA complaints and 1000 manufacturer/dealer complaints.
What the NHTSA complaint serves is to quicken the process toward a mandatory NHTSA initiated recall. And it makes any complaints public (greatly increases the chance of being reported by the media). I think you realize how big a PR impact this has (given you have opposed the Leaf battery degradation issuing being part of a NHTSA complaint).
No, I don't own a Model S. IIRC, to file a safety complaint on a car, you have to provide your contact info and VIN anyway.
Those who have NOT experienced legitimate safety defects should NOT be filing safety complaints w/NHTSA. Doing so would be wrong.
As for stalling, it is most definitely a serious safety issue. If it weren't, why have tens of millions of vehicles, if not hundreds of millions been recalled for this? And, they continue to be. It is NOT minor.
Yes, Tesla and any automaker should be given the chance to address it first. But, it should still be reported to NHTSA, preferably after the fact. I will word future posts on this subject to emphasis that.
BTW, during the whole Toyota SUA debacle, I found it odd/interesting that there was a HUGE spike (see graph at It's All Your Fault: The DOT Renders Its Verdict on Toyota's Unintended-Acceleration Scare Car and Driver) as a result of/during all the media attention. Hmmm...
As for tires, they've been recalled as well. Tire failure can be tougher if encountered while driving as it may be unknown if it was due to defects vs. hitting a road hazard. But, certain ones can be obvious such as tread separation.
I personally was in car that suffered either a tire failure or blowout or damage due to road hazard. I wasn't driving at the time. My mother was driving. It was at night, the tire was the oldest one on the car on the right side and she was in the right lane of I-5. There was at least one loud noise then the TPMS light came on. Sure enough, there was a large hole. Cause was unclear, but it's possible it was due to a road hazard.
- - - Updated - - -
How do you know about the "most people" assertion?
No, NHTSA isn't the only place, but it just seems strange to tell people to NOT report it there at all.
Yes, it's much quicker to deal w/the manufacturer/dealer first and that should be done, but legitimate safety defects that an owner has experienced should still be reported to NHTSA, preferably after it's been addressed. In some cases, it's impossible to have it addressed (e.g. vehicle totaled due to fire or serious accident, rental car, etc.).
Last edited:
Vger
Active Member
Add me to the list of victims of this 12V battery failure and complete shutdown
Please update us on this-- circumstances, diagnosis, how resolved by Tesla, etc.
Similar threads
