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Maintaining charge at an airport....

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Mayhemm, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

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    Does anybody know if the 110V plugs found in most airport parking structures are enough to stave off vampire losses (currently high on FW4.5 but reasonably low on FW5.0)?

    I don't know about the USA, but here in Canada the plugs at airports do not provide continuous power, they are on a timer and intended for winter use. When plugged into a block heater, they will supply power for a time, then kick off for several hours to save power.

    Will this intermittent power source be enough to counter the car's losses (especially in winter, when daily power loss could be much higher due to pack maintenance)?

    Would it trigger an error in the UMC and stop charging altogether?
     
  2. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

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    I think I've seen vampire drain on 4.5 is equivalent to ~200W. so if you can draw 1.4kW (12A x 120V) for a total of 2 hours per day that should take care of vampire losses. In winter time I believe that vampire losses are the same, however if the pack is cold it will estimate that the remaining SOC is lower (thus the vampire losses seem higher).

     
  3. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

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    So the regular heating of the pack in the winter (remember, it would be cold-soaking most of the time as most airport parking structures are not heated) would not increase vampire drain? I don't see how that's possible.
     
  4. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

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    No, the battery pack only heats itself while charging AFAIK. (Doug_G or the Quebec guys care to chime in?) Although you might not get any charging done as you may only have power at the outlet long enough to bring the pack up to temperature.

    I think with 5.0 I'd have no problem leaving my car at the airport for a week in Toronto or Buffalo. Although it is much colder where you are than here. (And there are several charging stations on route, if I didn't have enough charge to make it home)
     
  5. AMPd

    AMPd Active Member

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    That is incorrect, the model s will use battery power to cool/warm itself up when not plugged in.
     
  6. Zapped

    Zapped Model S - PURE EV

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    Thought I would ask here. I won't be using my car for a few weeks to a month.

    Any recommendations on storage with power connected.
    1) set charge level 50% ? lower ? higher ?
    2) charge amperage, I have 240 volts, thinking of setting it down to 10 amps...
    3) charge start time. I can set the timer to 12:01am so it tops up every night as required while I'm away vs run continuously
     
  7. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    The car will not use any power to heat the pack when parked, unless the temperature is extremely cold (-25C?). If the pack is cold soaked below freezing it will use the pack heater when first powered up. It will also turn on the pack heater if you use the remote app to turn on the cabin heat. It will use AC power for this if it is plugged in; otherwise the power comes from the battery. The pack heater can consume as much as 6 kW.
     
  8. ZBB

    ZBB Emperor

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    I live in AZ, so have no idea what a block heater is... :cool:

    But I was on a business trip to China a couple weeks ago and decided to try an off-airport parking lot that advertised EV charging. Before the trip, I emailed them to ask how it works. They have added some 110V/20A outlets in 4 spots -- but they are tied into the covered parking lighting system, so power is only on at night.

    When I parked, I plugged in (unfortunately the outlets were installed upside down -- with the ground up, so the UMC cord did not naturally hang down and I had to fiddle with it to get the plug to stay connected...). As expected, the power was off (it was ~8am) -- so I figured it check it later via the iOS app.

    I checked the app when power to the outlets was supposed to be on -- but the app just said "not charging" and gave a message to check the outlet power. I tried using the "start charging" button on the app, but no luck. The car never charged. I suspect that the if he UMC detects no power that it won't try again later. Anyone else experience that?

    Fortunately I had planned ahead and made sure to park with plenty of charge. Over the 7 days and 2 hours I was parked, it lost 51 miles of range -- 7.2 miles per day (on 4.5). Still had plenty of range to get home.

    I sent feedback to the lot and they sent an apology -- and are looking into why no power was provided...
     
  9. AMPd

    AMPd Active Member

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    My mistake, this thread had me thinking the car will use battery power to protect itself from damage
    Does the model S come with a battery heater? | Forums | Tesla Motors
     
  10. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

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    This is kind of the point of the thread. With all that going on (assume Canadian winter conditions for worst case scenario), will a 12A outlet with intermittent power be enough to counter the daily vampire load?

    This is also something I would be interested to know. If the power kicks off on an airport timer, will the UMC throw a fit and either not look for power again without intervention or will it think there's a problem and stop charging? I've heard it can be very picky about the power it will/will not allow.

    I think you were both right. Doug has confirmed that the battery will heat itself if external temps are very cold or, I assume, cool itself if very hot.
     
  11. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    If the power is off to start, the UMC won't care. It will care if it's charging and there is a power sag or spike. My guess is that either there was no power to the receptacle or the power wasn't good enough (worn receptacle) and the UMC LED was red (if you could have seen it).
     
  12. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

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    Stories such as these just go to show how critical sleep mode really is. There was a report on the 5.0 thread that suggested someone rendered their Tesla unable to charge and in need of service because the car did not charge while away on vacation. Granted, maybe that person did not plug in their car as ZBB did, but clearly plugging in is sometimes not enough. I suspect all of us will have an easier time leaving the Tesla at an airport once 5.0 is rolled out.
     
  13. Plug Me In

    Plug Me In Member

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    Not particularly relevant to the Canadian airport question but here are some of my observations on airport 110V.

    I've parked at an airport twice for 7+ days on a 110V outlet. First time was on ver 4.3 or 4.4, second on 4.5. It's about a 2 hour drive from my house to this airport. The first time I left the car plugged in and charging and it topped off after about 3+ days. I wanted to top off the car again before returning home but couldn't re-start the charging from the app as it still considered the car as "Charging complete", even after some vampire drain. So I had about 30 or so miles of vampire loss. Wasn't a big deal. The next trip I stopped the charging before it completed via the app. I did the same thing a couple of times before letting it go "all the way" the day before coming home. I'm not sure if the scheduled charging on 5.0 will automatically top the car off every 24 hours once it hits the full charge.

    Another tactic if you run into the "charging complete" and can't restart from the app is to start a range charge at some point before you get back, timing it so that you don't go to 100%.
     
  14. ZBB

    ZBB Emperor

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    There was no power when I plugged in -- it was just after 8am and the parking lot confirmed prior that the outlet was on the same circuit as the lighting, so was only powered at night. No LEDs on the UMC came on. But I expected that when I plugged in.

    The outlets (I checked both the one at the parking space I parked at, and the one one row over) both appeared to be in good condition, and were mounted up high (approx 4 feet). They were in a typical outdoor box. Looked new...
     
  15. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    That is weird. There is something here being missed, but I have no idea what it might be. The first thing I would do to troubleshoot is measure the power at the receptacle. Something you might do is contact ownership experience and ask. They might pull the logs for that time and see if there is anything recorded.
     
  16. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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    J1772 are a waste of money at airports.


    Short answer yes.

    I used a 120volt outlet and used it to charge my exclusively MS for 4 months. 120 volt does three miles an hour (1 kW) per hour. IMO, all airports need to install is multiple 120 volt outlets. No need for J1772 at all. J1772 are a waste of money at airports.
     
  17. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    I totally agree and wrote to Massport (they run Logan Airport) to that effect. They could install a bunch of 120V outlets for the price of a J1772 and they'd work just as well. One thing to keep in mind though, is the green-washing effect is much less.
     
  18. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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    Sadly, green wash sometimes seems to be more important than real benefit.
     

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