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Make usage of Battery at the end of vehicle life

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by GJ79, Aug 9, 2016.

  1. GJ79

    GJ79 Member

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    Are there already companies that convert our existing Tesla Battery packs into a home storage solution? Expecting that my pack P85 will still have more than 50% storage capacity in 8-10 Years I would think it makes sense to use the Pack as a large powerwall ? Has anyone done anything like this or is planning on doing the same ?
     
  2. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

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    wk057 built his own using salvage Model S batteries. There's a huge discussion on here about it. Nothing commercial out there that I know of but the cars are still too new for that. Down the road, I presume companies will capitalize on that, if not Tesla doing it directly. Maybe Tesla can sell lower-priced Powerwalls, built with used batteries.
     
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  3. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Member

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    Assuming you're driving a reasonable amount per year, in 8-10 years your pack will likely still have ~90% of its capacity left.

    Right now there are very few Tesla packs out of service, most of them have come from wrecks. So there isn't enough supply for a company to have a viable business model re-purposing old ones. A few folks have repurposed packs for home storage with good success though.
     
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  4. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    Tesla has said that they will recycle Tesla battery packs at the Gigafactory. (Since nothing actually gets used up in them.)

    I had heard rumor that they would be used for stationary storage first, and once they weren't good enough for that they would be recycled for base elements to be put back into new batteries.
     
  5. GJ79

    GJ79 Member

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    Of course they would, but I doubt they will pay you for the pack. The pack has significant value and it would be very cool to get a >50KW home storage solution.
     
  6. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla required the core pack be returned when they put a new one in your car. (Or maybe they will just charge a fairly high core charge since the pack is worth quite a bit like you say.) So the only source for packs to be used for stationary storage would likely be from totaled cars.
     
  7. GJ79

    GJ79 Member

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    A new pack in the Car? I find it hard to believe that someone would put a new pack in a car that is >10 years old. There are so many desirable features by then like Autopilot 10.0 etc that I don't think that would be worth it at all.
     
  8. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    Sure, but at >10 years old the car will be much more affordable for someone that doesn't need the latest and greatest. Now if you can afford to take the battery out of your car at 10 years old to use it for something else then more power to you. (And I assume you could sell the rest of the car for parts.)
     
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  9. GJ79

    GJ79 Member

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    How much you think a new or refurbished pack (85Kw) will cost in ten years. Lets assume it costs less than 10k. I just don't know anyone that would spend that kind of money on a 10 year old car. At this point the need for a new pack kind of totals the vehicle to me.
     
  10. ReddyLeaf

    ReddyLeaf Member

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    This same discussion is occurring for other EVs (especially the Leaf), only much earlier due to the smaller batteries and faster degradation. Several manufacturers are running "demonstration" storage systems, but I don't remember any systems that are actually available to the general public. As for replacing batteries with new, it doesn't make much sense for the lower cost EV, especially due to the massive depreciation of the car combined with still high battery costs. Essentially, if battery supply is limited, the manufacturer would rather sell a new car than an replacement pack. A Leaf replacement pack is $5500+labor+old pack. Even with the 24 KWH Leaf, most people won't need a pack swap until 4-5 year, at which point the car value has dropped to $8000-$10,000. It makes little sense to put $6000 into a $8000 car because the car can be totaled in an accident the following day, and you will be out the full amount. This has already been reported on MyNissanLeaf.com. The numbers are slightly higher for a Tesla, but still similar. Right not used Teslas are down to $50K, but even those won't need a replacement battery for at least 5 years, and probably not even 10 years. Thus, would you pay $10K-$20K to put a new battery in a hypothetical $15K-$25K Tesla in 2026? Or would you rather pay $40K for the newest technology?
     
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  11. GJ79

    GJ79 Member

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    Exactly my view. Considering the modular pack approach I would hope for a plug and play storage enclosure. That would be so awesome !!!!
     
  12. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    I think in 10 years the batteries will be way cheaper...
     
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  13. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Member

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    Keep in mind that there is a thriving industry replacing engines in classic cars. If people want to put a new chevy small block in a 1970s car, its seems reasonable that there will be plenty of people wanting to replace the packs in Teslas down the line.
     
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  14. GJ79

    GJ79 Member

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    I am not saying that no one will do it but I would awesome that the majority probably won't.
     
  15. GJ79

    GJ79 Member

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    At which price point would it be cheap enough to make it worth the investment to you? For me I would say probably less than 5k and I don't think the price for a refurbished 85k pack will drop that low within 10 years. BUt lets hope so than Home Storage would be even cheaper.
     
  16. davewill

    davewill Member

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    Once a car gets to be 10+ years old, the value is more in the eyes of the beholder than the market. Most cars that old are "recycled" but a few will be loved and will get new batteries. The batteries from the majority will be available for projects.
     
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  17. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Member

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    Gasoline has a lot more tax in UK than USA, so differential between Gas and Electricity is high.

    Over here I save GBP 100 / USD 130 per month for each 10,000 miles I drive in a year (charging BEV compared to fuelling an ICE). That's a 6.5 year pay-back at 10,000 miles p.a., and 2.5 years for someone doing 25,000 miles p.a. - so might be cost effective (if the alternative is an ICE).

    If new cars / batteries are cheap in 10 years time, and ICE doesn't exist then ... or everyone uses RideShare on UBER ... it will need a different recycle algorithm!

    Does you US$10k allow for the trade-in value of the old pack? Would that perhaps be worth 25% of the full price of a new pack?
     
  18. Electric700

    Electric700 Member

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    I think we're looking at 20+ years. Tesla designed the battery well, and the first Tesla Roadsters that are almost 10 years old are to the best of my knowledge not showing significant degradation.
     
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  19. brantse

    brantse Member

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    In 12 years, my 4 year old son will be getting ready to drive. Maybe I should use the promise that if he helps take care of the car until then, when he turns 16 he can have the MS. Not that any 16 year old needs an MS, and I'm sure that there will be lots of really amazing new features in cars by then; however, I think even 12 years from now most of his friends would be envious.
     

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