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Makes me sad to hear many reviews of the New S complain about build quality!

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Porsche Taycan or Audi eTron GT or Mercedes EQS are decent substitutes, depending on what your priorities are. Personally I'm planning to replace my Model S with Taycan Cross Turismo Turbo, but the EQS came in second, and eTron GT RS came in third but would have been first if it was a hatchback (important to me, not important to everyone). Corporate Tesla profit centered service policies (which used to offset the bad build quality by fixing everything while providing loaners) combined with the yoke with all touch buttons is what pushed me over the edge to another brand. Waited a long time for good enough alternatives, finally they are (almost) here.

Tesla, you finally have competition! Let the game being.

PS> If you are interested purely in straight line acceleration drag race, Tesla is still unbeatable with the Plaid. Personally, I never drag race, so will take Ludicrous level "only" acceleration but with things like all-wheel-steering, HUD, night vision, better handling, better build quality, faster charging, more repeatabe performance, no vaporware (all features work on delivery day, novel idea, I know), Apple Car Play or Android Auto, etc.
I agree.
And if one values range (i do), the MB EQS is the way to go.
 
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Porsche Taycan or Audi eTron GT or Mercedes EQS are decent substitutes, depending on what your priorities are. Personally I'm planning to replace my Model S with Taycan Cross Turismo Turbo, but the EQS came in second, and eTron GT RS came in third but would have been first if it was a hatchback (important to me, not important to everyone). Corporate Tesla profit centered service policies (which used to offset the bad build quality by fixing everything while providing loaners) combined with the yoke with all touch buttons is what pushed me over the edge to another brand. Waited a long time for good enough alternatives, finally they are (almost) here.

Tesla, you finally have competition! Let the game being.

PS> If you are interested purely in straight line acceleration drag race, Tesla is still unbeatable with the Plaid. Personally, I never drag race, so will take Ludicrous level "only" acceleration but with things like all-wheel-steering, HUD, night vision, better handling, better build quality, faster charging, more repeatabe performance, no vaporware (all features work on delivery day, novel idea, I know), Apple Car Play or Android Auto, etc.

Fastest charging? repeatable performance? what are you smoking. Have you not see the Taycan't getting beaten by Model 3's in Japanese EV-GP because it overheats and get passed? The Model S Plaid gets more charge/miles than the Taycan't or the Etron GT per charging time. And don't forget about price the Taycan't starting at $186k and maxing out at $300k with all options and with half the range.
 
Fastest charging? repeatable performance? what are you smoking. Have you not see the Taycan't getting beaten by Model 3's in Japanese EV-GP because it overheats and get passed? The Model S Plaid gets more charge/miles than the Taycan't or the Etron GT per charging time. And don't forget about price the Taycan't starting at $186k and maxing out at $300k with all options and with half the range.
There are more dynamics to an automobile besides straight line raw speed. This video should help articulate what I'm trying to convey. Oh, and FWIW my 4S has the battery+ pack (93.6kW) and I consistently get almost 300mi with regular (non-hypermiling) driving.

 
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There are more dynamics to an automobile besides straight line raw speed. This video should help articulate what I'm trying to convey. Oh, and FWIW my 4S has the battery+ pack (93.6kW) and I consistently get almost 300mi with regular (non-hypermiling) driving.



Look I have videos too:

More range and that is the older Model S

A crappy road course test.

Doug calling the Model S Plaid "Possibly the best all around car ever made" the second highest scored car according to his scoring system toping the Grand Turismo.

Yes they might have a better interior and finish but they are still not on the same class or offer the same value.
 
You are being a drama queen. Do you think the Model S gets painted in a different paint boot than the other Tesla models? or they use different paint on the Model S? My Model 3 has 21k and only PPF on the front bumper and it probably has 5 chips, 3 on the hood and couple on one fender. The mirrors are unprotected and they are all fine. My paint looks great after 3 years.

Former Model 3 owner here (Q1 2020 build), can confirm the paint was awful.
 
Look I have videos too:

More range and that is the older Model S

A crappy road course test.

Doug calling the Model S Plaid "Possibly the best all around car ever made" the second highest scored car according to his scoring system toping the Grand Turismo.

Yes they might have a better interior and finish but they are still not on the same class or offer the same value.
In the last video you posted he talks about how bad the paint quality is on the NEW Model S Plaid. That what this post was writing about.
 
Completely agree with OP. Fortunate not to have any significant issues with my 2015, but will not be looking at another Tesla when replacement time comes if the current situation does not change. No question that Tesla is tops when it comes to acceleration, range, and charging network, but for many people those are not the highest priority items anymore. If I want an EV with 0-60 times in the 4s with 250 miles of range, there are a handful to choose from with more on the way.

My "next EV" checklist has evolved to include better build quality inside and out, a more luxurious interior, excellent customer service with a phone number I can call, an easy to use dash/console interface that is not overly screen dependent, and a round steering wheel with turn signal stalks.

Was hoping for great things with the Taycan and Polestar 2 but both seem plagued by software and electrical issues, according to their respective forums. In the meantime, still love almost everything about my 2015 85D and will keep running it until it breaks irreparably or something else knocks my socks off.
 
Everyone has a different perception of value. $1K to my 26 y/o daughter has very different value than it does to me.

You keep missing my point and when you decide to pull your head out of Elon’s ass then maybe, just maybe you’ll be more tolerant of other’s views and opinions that don’t align with yours.

Aren't you buy a Plaid? I am confused.

You must be from a different world to think that 50k more for inferior product and technology is a better value.

I think the paint issues are mostly because of CA regulations. It makes no sense to me that Tesla robots cannot paint well lol... I wonder how Tesla Shanghai cars paint compares.
 
Another Tesla to Taycan convert. Our 2018 Model X 100D was a great EV, but a poorly built car. For $115k it had really poor build quality and rattles. The doors and weather striping were a disaster. After a couple of long road trips, and coming no where near the rated mileage, or the charging speeds, we starting to consider other options. Today we have an Audi E-tron and a Porsche Taycan.

The E-tron which had an MSRP of $75k ($40k less than the Model X) has far superior build and ride quality. The range sucks, but it's charging speed makes up for the difference. No problem taking it from Colorado to Phoenix.

The Taycan is simply in another league. Yes it's not as fast as a Model S Plaid, but I don't drag race, and will never take the car to the track. So the insane acceleration is simply a party trick I don't need.

The Model 3 and Y are much more acceptable. I would definitely buy one if I was looking for anything in the $40k-$60k range. They still are relatively expensive in terms of build quality compared to equivalently price German sedans, but they are much closer overall. Plus at this price point the tech can easily out way some of the luxury features and quality issues. However, I just feel the Model S and X aren't very competitive any more. A lot of excellent EV's in this price range hitting the market. Too few luxury options (colors, wheels, interior features, massaging seats, etc), but command serious money. Add in the fit and finish and it becomes a tough sell.

The Model S LR would have been really competitive in the $60k range like the outgoing model, but now that it starts at $90k it's a tough sell. It was a refresh not a completely new model. If BMW released the new 5-series and increased the price by $20k, it would be unacceptable. The Plaid is in a league of its own in terms of acceleration, so I guess if that's your most important factor, it's a great deal. But like I said, it's a fun party trick, and not really the number one factor for most people buying luxury sports sedans in the $100k+ market.

The Model X is even worse. $100k+. With the Rivian R1S ($70k), BMW iX ($85k), new Audi E-tron ($70k), the Model X is going to be substantially more money with no real advantages other than charging network. As tons of new CCS chargers are added, along with Tesla opening up it's network, the advantage will be completely gone.

Like everyone else on here I want Tesla to succeed (and they will). I want everyone to convert from ICE vehicles to EV's. We have all of these great EV's today because Tesla took the lead. It's also completely reasonable to expect Tesla to build higher quality cars in the $90k+ price point.
 
I guess it could be primer underneath, but one review I found said it was Chrome coming through.

Also, someone posted that Tesla uses "metal". The chrome trim pieces (now black), are not metal, they are plastic. (window surround, mirror bottoms, grille surround, etc, etc). Regardless of if it's primer or chrome that's showing through, painting these pieces is simply not a good idea. Plastic pieces can be easily produced in black plastic, needing no paint at all and provide very good long term durability.

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As far as plaid faster than taycan. Most of us know its timing. Meaning, Taycan was newer engineering than the prior S, thus was higher performing. (repeated full speed runs with no performance dropoff, higher top speed, etc). Now Tesla has the refresh with 3 motors, so its higher performing. I suspect that the next refresh version of Taycan will exceed Plaid in some way.

Thats how competition works. And the consumer ends up the winner
 
Porsche Taycan or Audi eTron GT or Mercedes EQS are decent substitutes, depending on what your priorities are. Personally I'm planning to replace my Model S with Taycan Cross Turismo Turbo, but the EQS came in second, and eTron GT RS came in third but would have been first if it was a hatchback (important to me, not important to everyone).
That's a pretty nice list, sorry if this is a little off topic but have you test driven any of them?
 
Fastest charging? repeatable performance? what are you smoking. Have you not see the Taycan't getting beaten by Model 3's in Japanese EV-GP because it overheats and get passed? The Model S Plaid gets more charge/miles than the Taycan't or the Etron GT per charging time. And don't forget about price the Taycan't starting at $186k and maxing out at $300k with all options and with half the range.
Wow, are you getting paid to write this or just uninformed? You remind me of a friend who told me he didn't buy a Tesla in 2016 because they started at $160K (which was the top end P90DL then). Taycan actually starts at $84,050 and it's eligible for $7,500 rebate, so $76.6K. You took the top end Taycan Turbo S (without federal rebate) for best shock value, didn't you? Yes Taycan has lower rated miles, even though in practice (real world tests) the Taycan tends to exceed the rated miles, while Teslas (driven together at same speed) underdeliver. Taycan has 800V, 250KW charging, 400V 150KW (optional, 50KW standard). Teslas, well, it depends which one, but none can utilize the 800V charging. Teslas are not known for reliable repeat performance either. Tesla regen is much lower than Taycan (60KW on my P85DL, up to 290KW on Taycan), and Taycan has way better brakes (available ceramics if you wish). Plaid will absolutely out-accelerate even a Taycan Turbo S in a straight line, and yes it will go farther on full charge, but that is not what everyone values most. Taycan already has more range than my P85DL which I easily took coast to coast, so obviously I don't need any more. Heck, I keep my P85D under 180 miles of charge because Tesla will run the coolant pumps 24/7 if I charge any higher - it taught me that even rated 180 miles is enough for 98% of my driving. Taycan has rear-wheel steering, better handling, proper phone integration (Android or Apple), etc. while Plaid has fart mode, dog mode, carwash mode, fireplace mode, and bunch of vaporware - different people want different things.

Tesla does have better battery technology, but it came at the cost of them experimenting on customers, which they still do btw. You might end up in the test fleet which has a new experimental battery management which ends up nerfing your range and/or charge speed in a couple of years - why do you thing Tesla revised their 8 year warranty to 70% battery capacity only (405mile rated range for Model S LR is only warrantied if it falls below 283.5 miles, 284 miles at full charge is still considered "normal" and not covered under warranty, and that is rated, your real world will be less - in 8 years of driving Teslas I NEVER achieved rated range for any trip longer than 50 miles).

Bottom line is, there is absolutely a market for Tesla. There are modded, loud 1000+hp muscle cars or even pick-up trucks which out-accelerated most ICE cars in a straight line too. For me, I never cared for those. Just because an F250 truck on steroids would beat my Model S in a straight line didn't really make me want to go out and buy one (yes, I did once come across one modded F250 which left my P85DL in a cloud of smoke at highway ramp even though I was pedal-to-the-metal).

Everyone makes their choices based on their preferences and offerings. I bought four Model S so far, no longer care to buy Teslas given their offering vs. the competition (which includes service btw). Maybe someday I will return to Tesla, who knows. As of right now, a well equipped Taycan CT Turbo is something I am willing to pay more money for than a Tesla Model S Plaid, but that's just me.
 
That's a pretty nice list, sorry if this is a little off topic but have you test driven any of them?
Yes, I test drove a Taycan, put down a deposit on it. Btw. I did an extended test drive of the fist Taycan when they first came out and didn't like its gear shifting, hill hold, and its size. Test drove a 2022 again this year, and they fixed the annoying gear shift (doesn't happen as often and seem much smoother), hill hold, and with CT the trunk access, so I put down a deposit on one on the spot. My deposit is still not locked, so waiting to see if EQS shows up before I have to lock my build, but I really did like the Taycan this time. I might go out test drive the eTron GT (expecting a big improvement over the original eTron which I wasn't crazy about), but the fact that is has a regular trunk instead of a hatch will more than likely eliminate it for my use (different stage of life, when I was young and single I had a custom build 911C4 and a supercharged Toyota 4Runner, today I don't have the parking room to keep 2 cars with wife and kids needing to park their cars too, so need one car which does triple duty - my own personal performance driving, Costco shopping trip driving, family trip driving).
 
The Tesla "Plaid" version is a simple luxury for those that can afford it. $40,000 and the only difference is one accelerates quicker than the other. That's always been the case with the "Performance" version of Tesla. Especially on the S & X, Tesla charges astronomically for that acceleration. But, was originally a $10,000 premium. Then went to $20,000, then $30,000, then $40,000. It think it was up to $50,000 at one point, But, as demand declined, it came back down. Used to be $20,000 for the "P" version, then another $10,000 or $20,000 for the "Ludicrous" mode. In the past, you got red painted calipers included, as well as a spoiler that you can buy on E-bay for $89.00. But other than that, no other difference between the two.

The new Long Range version however, has "Insane" mode, which was the original mode offered when the P85D came out. It's 3.1 0-60 is basically exactly the same as the P85D or P90D was. I had one and used it as a party trick to show off to new passengers, who were shocked each time they felt it. It was $20,000 when I bit the bullet and bought it. Now, it's included for free with the Long Range Version. Can't imagine it wouldn't still shock passengers that have never felt a car than can do 0-60 in 3 seconds, which is faster than just about any car on the planet as it is.

1.99 seconds is beyond insane, yes. Actually, it's more like 2.2 - 2.3 seconds in real world driving without the "roll-out" and being in perfect conditions on a sticky race track, and after letting the car warm up and lower itself and engage "launch mode" etc. Still incredible no doubt. So, when that Ferrari or Lambo pulls up to you at the red light of an intersection and wants to race, you'll have to politely ask "would love to, but can you give me 10-15 minutes for my car to set itself up for launch mode?" Yeah, not going to happen. For the rare few that go to a drag strip regularly, then it clearly has all the value in the world. Other than the $2.4 million dollar Rimac Rivera, which does 0-60 in 1.8 and the 1/4 mile in 8.6 seconds, there won't be a production car at the track that can beat you. But, for those that will never take their car to a race track, I personally think "Insane Mode" offers nearly the same "wow" factor to passengers, just as it did in 2015 when the P85D / P90D came out.

While I can afford it, the reason I can afford it is partially attributed to being smart throughout the years. The sensible side in me can't bring myself to spend $40,000 simply to accelerate 0.8-0.9 seconds faster to 60. I NEVER used the P90D's performance except when demonstrating it to passengers. And 3 seconds 0-60 gave me a headache as it was. I only drove the Plaid for a short time, but can't imagine what 2.2 - 2.3 second repeated launches would do to my head!! Sure, it's a hell of a "WOW" factor. But, then for most, it never gets used beyond those demonstration moments. And the original Insane mode at 3.0-3.1 was always a hell of a "WOW" factor as it is. So to get that at no extra cost now, that's a pretty good deal. Even my current 2019 LR Raven at 3.8 0-60 is still far more than I ever use on the road. I think I've floored the car maybe twice since I bought it.

All depends on the user and how much they will actually use it. Most that I know with Tesla's say they never use it and just got it because it was the best of the best available, rather than because it was an option they would actually benefit from.

There's never been a dispute about Tesla's performance. They've set the bar and continued to raise it. 6 years in, there are still buyers willing to pay that $40,000 price tag simply for quicker acceleration, so Tesla will keep charging it as long as they can get it. Again, as with the 2019, eventually those buyers fade and the price comes down into the $10,000 to $20,000 range, until they release something new again.

With most high-end cars, when you purchase the "Performance" version of it (Mercedes AMG, BMW M, Audi RS, etc), that $40,000 gets you quite a bit more than just acceleration (sportier bodies, better wheels, better brakes, better suspension, spoilers, usually some upgraded interior pieces, etc). At $10,000 to $20,000, not so bad for what Tesla offers. At $40,000, regardless of the fact that it does accelerate quicker than any other production car, sending the kids to college or getting them a Model 3 for that $40,000 just seems to be a higher value!! LOL.
 
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Another Tesla to Taycan convert. Our 2018 Model X 100D was a great EV, but a poorly built car. For $115k it had really poor build quality and rattles. The doors and weather striping were a disaster. After a couple of long road trips, and coming no where near the rated mileage, or the charging speeds, we starting to consider other options. Today we have an Audi E-tron and a Porsche Taycan.

The E-tron which had an MSRP of $75k ($40k less than the Model X) has far superior build and ride quality. The range sucks, but it's charging speed makes up for the difference. No problem taking it from Colorado to Phoenix.

The Taycan is simply in another league. Yes it's not as fast as a Model S Plaid, but I don't drag race, and will never take the car to the track. So the insane acceleration is simply a party trick I don't need.

The Model 3 and Y are much more acceptable. I would definitely buy one if I was looking for anything in the $40k-$60k range. They still are relatively expensive in terms of build quality compared to equivalently price German sedans, but they are much closer overall. Plus at this price point the tech can easily out way some of the luxury features and quality issues. However, I just feel the Model S and X aren't very competitive any more. A lot of excellent EV's in this price range hitting the market. Too few luxury options (colors, wheels, interior features, massaging seats, etc), but command serious money. Add in the fit and finish and it becomes a tough sell.

The Model S LR would have been really competitive in the $60k range like the outgoing model, but now that it starts at $90k it's a tough sell. It was a refresh not a completely new model. If BMW released the new 5-series and increased the price by $20k, it would be unacceptable. The Plaid is in a league of its own in terms of acceleration, so I guess if that's your most important factor, it's a great deal. But like I said, it's a fun party trick, and not really the number one factor for most people buying luxury sports sedans in the $100k+ market.

The Model X is even worse. $100k+. With the Rivian R1S ($70k), BMW iX ($85k), new Audi E-tron ($70k), the Model X is going to be substantially more money with no real advantages other than charging network. As tons of new CCS chargers are added, along with Tesla opening up it's network, the advantage will be completely gone.

Like everyone else on here I want Tesla to succeed (and they will). I want everyone to convert from ICE vehicles to EV's. We have all of these great EV's today because Tesla took the lead. It's also completely reasonable to expect Tesla to build higher quality cars in the $90k+ price point.

Wow, are you getting paid to write this or just uninformed? You remind me of a friend who told me he didn't buy a Tesla in 2016 because they started at $160K (which was the top end P90DL then). Taycan actually starts at $84,050 and it's eligible for $7,500 rebate, so $76.6K. You took the top end Taycan Turbo S (without federal rebate) for best shock value, didn't you? Yes Taycan has lower rated miles, even though in practice (real world tests) the Taycan tends to exceed the rated miles, while Teslas (driven together at same speed) underdeliver. Taycan has 800V, 250KW charging, 400V 150KW (optional, 50KW standard). Teslas, well, it depends which one, but none can utilize the 800V charging. Teslas are not known for reliable repeat performance either. Tesla regen is much lower than Taycan (60KW on my P85DL, up to 290KW on Taycan), and Taycan has way better brakes (available ceramics if you wish). Plaid will absolutely out-accelerate even a Taycan Turbo S in a straight line, and yes it will go farther on full charge, but that is not what everyone values most. Taycan already has more range than my P85DL which I easily took coast to coast, so obviously I don't need any more. Heck, I keep my P85D under 180 miles of charge because Tesla will run the coolant pumps 24/7 if I charge any higher - it taught me that even rated 180 miles is enough for 98% of my driving. Taycan has rear-wheel steering, better handling, proper phone integration (Android or Apple), etc. while Plaid has fart mode, dog mode, carwash mode, fireplace mode, and bunch of vaporware - different people want different things.

Tesla does have better battery technology, but it came at the cost of them experimenting on customers, which they still do btw. You might end up in the test fleet which has a new experimental battery management which ends up nerfing your range and/or charge speed in a couple of years - why do you thing Tesla revised their 8 year warranty to 70% battery capacity only (405mile rated range for Model S LR is only warrantied if it falls below 283.5 miles, 284 miles at full charge is still considered "normal" and not covered under warranty, and that is rated, your real world will be less - in 8 years of driving Teslas I NEVER achieved rated range for any trip longer than 50 miles).

Bottom line is, there is absolutely a market for Tesla. There are modded, loud 1000+hp muscle cars or even pick-up trucks which out-accelerated most ICE cars in a straight line too. For me, I never cared for those. Just because an F250 truck on steroids would beat my Model S in a straight line didn't really make me want to go out and buy one (yes, I did once come across one modded F250 which left my P85DL in a cloud of smoke at highway ramp even though I was pedal-to-the-metal).

Everyone makes their choices based on their preferences and offerings. I bought four Model S so far, no longer care to buy Teslas given their offering vs. the competition (which includes service btw). Maybe someday I will return to Tesla, who knows. As of right now, a well equipped Taycan CT Turbo is something I am willing to pay more money for than a Tesla Model S Plaid, but that's just me.

I am really confused about this thread. Is this a thread about the new 2021 Model S LR and Plaid or to talk about your old cars and bad experiences?

I really want to know how I am unformed because a Taycan RWD with a few options cost 100K 🤣 it is 84k of the gate with horrible aero cover. You should compare that car to a Model 3 Long Range since it can actually seat 5 people and it has better performance metric all around including cargo. Does the Taycan Turbo S Gulf doesn't overheat at the Japan EV-GT and gets passed by Model 3s?

800V just like the 2-speed transmission is a bunch for marketing BS. Current battery cells cannot take that rate of charge so is completely pointless. Like I said the Model S Plaid when tested achieve a faster charge rate "usable added range per time" then a Taycan on Ionity 350KW charger. Why are you even talking about warranties are new cells the same as the old cells? Is anyone of us will keep their car that long? what percent will?

As far as the Model S LR not being worth it at 90k; the 2020 Model S performance was a 90k car. I don't if you are aware that the new Model S Long Rage is a 10 second car has a higher trap speed in the 1/4 of mile than the performance the same as the Taycan at 129-130 mph. ET is not the same and slower at 10.8 seconds but I assume an acceleration boost add on will come and it will be faster than the old Performance Model S.

The new Model S is 90% refreshed and someone that has taking it apart would know like Blake Fuller. Suspension is all brand new, new battery pack, new cooling system, new chassis, new electronics and just because it looks like the old Model S it doesn't mean that it is.

You mention that straight line doesn't matter but then you talk about the Taycan brakes and suspension like some guy that daily drives a car would care. There is a better change that an owner will take their EV to a dragstrip or accelerate fast on the street than to take their car to a road course or take a turn on the street at 1g 😅.

Here is 3 actual owners that are very happy with their new cars. The lady has some finish issue on the paint it had some holograms that anyone can fix. She has had multiple Teslas and was mind blown by how nice the new interior was. Eric Robertson has a 2021 Model S LR and decided to upgrade to a Plaid, I assume his car cannot be that bad to upgrade just for speed haha. On the last one I ask D and E about the handles being chrome and painted and they look at it and they say it doesn't look like it. To me it doesn't make sense because paint will not adhere to a chrome surface. I also asked them if for 90/130k is the new car worth both says yes.




I set the video when they start talking about the handles.

 
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