Man fatally shot during altercation at Tesla charging station

[whitex]

I can’t see how it was self defense....either the shooter was carrying the weapon...in which case his motives and state of mind must be questioned....or he returned to his car to retrieve it...in which case he could have just left. Nothing short of the dead man having a weapon in his hand is a defense...in my non legal opinion

We don't know any facts in this case yet, so all this purely speculation. You not seeing how it could be self defense is just lack of imagination. Here is one possibility, the guy who ended up dead pulls a gun on the shooter, the shooter manages to take the gun away before shooting the attacker. The shooter takes the gun with to make sure nobody else gets shot, then calls the police. I'm not saying that this happened, just showing you that in lieu of missing facts, you make judgements based on your own limited experience and imagination.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

We don't know any facts in this case yet, so all this purely speculation. You not seeing how it could be self defense is just lack of imagination. Here is one possibility, the guy who ended up dead pulls a gun on the shooter, the shooter manages to take the gun away before shooting the attacker. The shooter takes the gun with to make sure nobody else gets shot, then calls the police. I'm not saying that this happened, just showing you that in lieu of missing facts, you make judgements based on your own limited experience and imagination.

The news reported police found two guns at the scene. (30 seconds into the 37 second video)

Victim identified in shooting at Edgewater charging station

Two men were involved in a fight that ended with one being fatally shot, according to the Jeffco Sheriff's Office – the other man reported his involvement to 911.

www.9news.com

 

[White Shadow]

I see your point, and agree that there are dangers in both EV chargers and gas stations. I'm just not sure either is clearly higher danger/risk.

PS>Some gas stations have been removed the "click" lock from their pumps. I've come across this when I travel and rent ICE cars. I asked at one station in CA IIRC, and they told me it's some regulation (which is possible, I can see it being a politician's knee jerk reaction to some freak accident).

Yup, I've seen that too. So what people do is wedge their gas cap into the handle to keep it open. And if they have a capless filler neck, they'll find something else to stick in there instead.

 

[White Shadow]

Exactly, with EV's people are in cars more, which makes it harder to rob them, as it gives them time to call the police, possibly pull a weapon, etc. You are a lot more vulnerable when holding a gas pump handle to your car than sitting inside a locked vehicle.


Once there are more EV's, EV charging stations will be busier than gas stations, if for no other reason than the fact that it takes longer to fill up. I've been to gas stations in rural areas where there is nobody there at night, no other cars either, and the the lighting just puts makes you stick out like a sore thumb, as everything around the station is all dark.

My point was that EV charging stations are no more a target for crime than gas stations, perhaps less.

Inside the car or outside doesn't mean anything when a guy with a gun approaches you with bad intentions. You're really no safer inside the car UNLESS you can use the car to escape. And a plugged in car cannot be driven away. That's a main point here. Your primary means of escape in an EV is rendered useless when it has a charging cable attached to it.

If if I'm my car with a gas nozzle in the filler neck and crap goes down at the gas station, I'm driving away immediately, which the pump nozzle and hose still attached to my vehicle. I wouldn't hesitate at all. I'll be miles down the road dragging the gas hose along with me.

 

[ucmndd]

I can understand the anger and frustration but that is not quite accurate. Children aged 1-17 have a greater risk of dying of vehicle-related injuries.

Child and Teen Firearm Mortality in the U.S. and Peer Countries | KFF

Firearms were responsible for 20 percent of all child and teen deaths in the U.S. for both 2020 and 2021, compared to an average of less than 2 percent in similarly large and wealthy nations. This puts the U.S. far ahead of peer nations in child and teen firearm deaths.

www.kff.org

I do agree that the numbers are close but the CDC does not break out suicides with firearms or gang on gang violence which also conflates the numbers.

Suicide by firearm or firearm related violence that has to do with "gangs" are still deaths by firearm. Just like suicide by vehicle is a vehicle related death. Firearms are the primary killer of children in the US. Full stop. Pretending some deaths are different than others to paint the desired picture/narrative is disingenuous.

Heading off the "if there were no guns kids would just kill themselves with something else" argument - this is not supported by available evidence. Most people who attempt suicide by less lethal means do NOT keep trying until they're successful. The lethality and finality of firearms, combined with the instant availability of them to carry out an often impulsive decision, are highly relevant to an honest discussion.

Guns & Suicide

Special report by Madeline Drexler, Editor, Harvard Public Health In the national debate over gun violence—a debate stoked by mass murders such as last December’s tragedy in a Newtown, Connecticut,…

www.hsph.harvard.edu

Removing the tool from the attacker just means the attacker will use another tool.

Slippery slope / false equivalency. Pretending that the unfettered availability of hyper-lethal weapons has nothing to do with this is not supported by any available evidence. Suggesting just as many children would die from sharp sticks if we got rid of all the guns is not a serious argument that is intended to debate a serious issue.

As for the later part about a good guy with a gun, most mass casualty shootings happen in gun free zones where law abiding citizens don't carry.

Seriously flawed argument that deliberately omits context and insinuates that more guns would have stopped the event despite no credible evidence.

Claims misrepresent mass shootings in ‘gun-free zones’

In the wake of Monday’s shooting a Christian school in Nashville, social media users are sharing a post that claims nearly all mass shootings happen in designated “gun-free zones” where firearms are expressly prohibited, such as schools.

apnews.com

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I respect your view. Just wanted to add some clarity.

We're all entitled to opinions to be sure, but have a responsibility for making factual arguments.


For the record - I like guns. Have several. Grew up and continue to live in a rural area where guns are a normal part of life. Went to the high school referenced up thread where kids had long guns in their vehicles in the parking lot. I was also fortunate enough to go to high school pre-Columbine. I'm just unwilling to pretend that they aren't a major contributor to the deep deep problems in our society these days and that the right to have them in a completely unfettered and un-challengeable way is worth the immense and ever-growing cost.

 

[Bouba]

We don't know any facts in this case yet, so all this purely speculation. You not seeing how it could be self defense is just lack of imagination. Here is one possibility, the guy who ended up dead pulls a gun on the shooter, the shooter manages to take the gun away before shooting the attacker. The shooter takes the gun with to make sure nobody else gets shot, then calls the police. I'm not saying that this happened, just showing you that in lieu of missing facts, you make judgements based on your own limited experience and imagination.

Ok...so I have no imagination....they are at a charging station which is open to other cars...a man in a Tesla pulls up and sees a BMW plugged in...so he shoots him...justifiable homicide

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Ok...so I have no imagination....they are at a charging station which is open to other cars...a man in a Tesla pulls up and sees a BMW plugged in...so he shoots him...justifiable homicide

They were both driving Teslas.

 

[MP3Mike]

And a plugged in car cannot be driven away.

There is an adapter for Teslas that would allow you to drive away: EVject - Breakaway EV Charging Adapter

I wouldn't recommend using it, but there is an option that should be available soon if you are worried about it.

 

[PACEMD]

There is an adapter for Teslas that would allow you to drive away: EVject - Breakaway EV Charging Adapter

I wouldn't recommend using it, but there is an option that should be available soon if you are worried about it.

Elon just needs to arm Teslas, James Bondify every last certified carry one of them, machine guns, rockets, bullet proof body, and such. Like the Aston Martin DB5, that'll teach them wife-beater-wearing, cowboy boots-footed, baseball-capped, longhaired freaks not to mess with us citizens. And don't forget the ejector seats neither........

 

[PACEMD]

If looks could kill, that guy's a goner for sure.........

 

[whitex]

Inside the car or outside doesn't mean anything when a guy with a gun approaches you with bad intentions. .

Against a gun, agreed (unless you have your own gun in the glove compartment). Against an RPG, no difference, ICE won't help you either, though might make for a larger fireball. Against a knife or even a baseball bat, inside a locked car gives you time to make a lot of noise, call the cops, grab a tire iron - at the very least you will not be jumped from behind like you can be when outside the car.

 

[Bouba]

Against a gun, agreed (unless you have your own gun in the glove compartment). Against an RPG, no difference, ICE won't help you either, though might make for a larger fireball. Against a knife or even a baseball bat, inside a locked car gives you time to make a lot of noise, call the cops, grab a tire iron - at the very least you will not be jumped from behind like you can be when outside the car.

Having a gun in the glove compartment will be of no help if voice recognition won’t open it

 

[drtimhill]

You don't know that. They still could have gotten into a fight with one of them dying.

.. and they could have both been hit by lightning. But from a probability standpoint, having a gun dramatically increases your chance of being killed (or killing someone). I can't think why...

 

[PACEMD]

Against a gun, agreed (unless you have your own gun in the glove compartment).

Yeah, but I can never exactly remember how to open the glovebox........

 

[PACEMD]

.. and they could have both been hit by lightning.

Exactly, and it's recommended not to stand under a supercharger during an electric storm........

 

[cmy4x4]

Yeah, but I can never exactly remember how to open the glovebox........

With the latest software update you can now open the glovebox with the left scroll wheel.

 

[PACEMD]

With the latest software update you can now open the glovebox with the left scroll wheel.

Left scroll wheel.........is that the one nearest the door?

 

[popgodazipa]

I've posted about the need for a queuing system. It will only get worse when it's open to all. I will not turn this post to a 2nd amendment debate but damn...do Americans truly love their guns more than they live each other? Bullets in our schools, church's, banks, highways, street corners...you fill in the blank. I carry (former military) but I wish I did not feel the need to.

 

[Bouba]

With the latest software update you can now open the glovebox with the left scroll wheel.

We need to be able to program the voice commands...so for example instead of saying ‘open the glovebox’...you can say, ‘get me my gun’

 

[Genie]

We need to be able to program the voice commands...so for example instead of saying ‘open the glovebox’...you can say, ‘get me my gun’

Or say ”call 911”