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Manual v Auto transmission (out of MA)

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He talks downhill most probably. Manual allows downshift and less usage of brakes, that can actually be very dangerous if they overheat. However, many modern automatic transmissions can downshift very well and make his statement irrelevant. Btw, in that regard EVs completely overshadow both transmissions, because they not only reduce the brakes usage significantly, but also recharge the battery.

Shifting is one area where a motorcycle is better than a car. The sequential foot shift is much more intuitive, especially for downshifting quickly. Also every limb has only one function, unlike a car where you need to move feet between pedals for example. Downshifting can also be used for slowing down, similar to regen in an EV.

I'm planning to test drive a Zero motorcycle soon, will be interesting to drive a motorcycle without a gear shift or clutch and the acceleration seems to be quite powerful.
 
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Model 3
You warned me...and I didn't listen and now...
well...here we go, baby!

I test drove a Tesla for the first time ever yesterday (after having 2 demos canceled on me because people kept buying the dang Model 3s!) and wow. Like, I always imagined it would be awesome, but I just had no idea. It's a truly incredible experience, and, if I'm going to be honest, I did shed a tear or two when I got back in my Camry afterwards.

You warned me...and I didn't listen and now... : teslamotors

This. People who have never experienced a Tesla just don’t know. Some think they know, some poo-poo, others can only see the price tag, and some don’t care to even try. And still others need to spend a little time with it to really understand; ie. a friend who actually liked my car enough to buy their own needed a few weeks to really get the beauty of regen braking. Now they can’t stop raving about the awesomeness of the car and they’ve yet to use TACC or AP - I know, right!?

It’s hard to convince people how great and life changing a dumb ole ‘car’ can be.
 
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Since we have a new thread...
One thing I do like with front wheel drive manual is the ability to disconnect the engine when decelerating on a slippery surface. Automatic downshifting can cause the front wheels to lose grip in some situations.

Other thing I like is the ability to test traction by goosing the throttle and then going back to road speed without fear of errant shifts.
 
For a driving enthusiast, a manual is often more fun to drive. Other than my model 3 all of our cars are manual. Our sons both drive and prefer manuals. They are safer for young drivers because you have to be engaged more. No texting or messing with your phone.
 
Soooo... until my M3, I have never owned anything except a manual transmission car. I found that the manual prepared me much better for regen braking (much like downshifting in a manual). The concept that the type of transmission makes a car more or less safe is inaccurate in my opinion. It is the expertise of the person behind the wheel and their ability to control the machine they are in with whatever conditions they are facing.

I very often heard people driving monster automatic transmission SUVs say "I can't believe you drive that little MINI Cooper on the turnpike in this weather!" Well, guess what? I never felt safer in a car (until now) as it had one of the better safety ratings, handled beautifully under all road conditions, and because it was a manual, I felt a greater sense of control, whether it was in downshifting to slow down or being able to quickly zip around a road obstacle.

And the notion that ‘most women don’t like to operate complex machinery" - I think "most women" can handle one extra foot pedal just fine! What an incredibly silly generalization! My mouth is still hanging open in disbelief!
 
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Same for my wife and I. We both only drove manual transmission cars before our Model 3. I have only owned one automatic transmission car (owned 4 manual transmission cars) and I hope I don’t ever have to own another automatic transmission. We both prefer manual for its safety, control, and simpler/cheaper maintenance (and purchase price). She is a woman and does fine with the more complex machinery.

All these arguments about automatic being more safe is hard to hold, unless you truly believe most of European drivers (majority manual) are less safe on the road than American drivers (majority automatic). As someone that has driven in large cities in Asia, Americas, and Europe, European drivers are definitely the safest. I’m not saying it’s strictly because of manual transmission (e.g. - stricter driver license testing, better driver communication and following of road laws/rules, etc.), but trying to argue that automatic cars are any faster in emergency situations etc. is simply wrong. The mechanical shift may have gotten faster, but the direct brain signal to manual downshift is still faster than brain signal to the fastest automatic manual clutch transmission downshift. The car just doesn’t get the signal fast enough because you’re still having to slam the pedal for the car to know you’re needing a downshift. Racing (I have also autocrossed in both manual and automatic) is different, where shifting inputs are predictable and being able to select the gear is enough, but for normal everyday driving I still prefer manual anyday.

Tesla’s (and all EV’s) are different. I would think it’s obvious but apparently not when I get questions like, “Tesla should make a manual transmission version for those that care.” That simply makes no sense. Tesla’s are not automatic transmissions. There is no transmission gearbox. We should just call them fixies (reference to bicycle gearing) so people will maybe better understand how they’re so different than any manual of automatic transmission.

I immediately set our Model 3 creep mode off when we got it (came with it turned on). I “coast” backwards when facing even a slight uphill (it’s still in gear, the motor just spins backwards) just like how I would drive with a manual when I don’t really need to go in reverse very far and no person behind needs to benefit from rear light communication.
 
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The M3 is the first non-manual transmission car I have owned since I was 17. I'm 61 now, so that's a LOT of years, cars (nine as far as I can remember) and a testament to how much I like a manual transmission and everything that goes with it.

With that said, I am thrilled with the M3 and would much rather be driving it than any other manual transmission car. the instant acceleration and lack of any transmission, manual or automatic, eliminates any hesitation necessary for gears to switch. Yes, that gear switching still has to happen in both automatic and manual transmission cars. The M3's acceleration is more efficient, fast and fun.

As to what's safer - manual or automatic? I believe it's automatic. Why? Well, it's analogous to driving a Tesla yourself vs. using AP. Tesla's own test results have proven that there are fewer accidents when you let the technology do the driving and not the human. We just make more mistakes and technology is more predictable and consistent and makes fewer mistakes. An automatic transmission is merely another example of technology driving the car instead of leaving that to a human. There are exceptions in specific situations, but on average, the technology proves to be much safer.
 
The Model 3 and all other Teslas literally have no transmission gear switching: it's a fixed gearing ratio and true continuous acceleration with no "switching" of gears anywhere. This simplifies the design and reduces manufacturing and maintenance costs.

EVs can do this because electric motors provide torque in a broad RPM spectrum, while ICE engines only operate in a narrow RPM range optimally.

This is technically true, although the reality is that as motor speed increases, the ability of an EV to accelerate diminishes. This explains why a Tesla can pulverise most ICE supercars from a standing start, but at motorway speeds an ICE car can pulverise a Tesla in acceleration (and overtaking).

The other issue no-one seems to have mentioned (surprisingly in this context) is that one of the reasons that a Tesla doesn't need multiple gears is that an electric motor can revolve much faster, as it isn't subject to the same stresses as a 'reciprocating engine' - for those who aren't familiar with this term, just think about the fact that an ICE engine has pistons that constantly have to reverse direction (the word "reciprocating" derives from the Latin, and roughly translated means "to move backwards and forwards"). In an ICE car doing 6,000 rpm (which is a common upper limit nowadays) each piston goes up 6,000 times per minute and down 6,000 times per minute. That's 100 times PER SECOND. The mechanical forces involved in constantly reversing direction like that limits the top speed of an ICE (which is not to say they can't go much faster - F1 cars rev up to 18,000 rpm, for instance, but their engines don't last very long). The ability to produce full torque from zero, a classic characteristic of electric motors, and the fact that the real-life speed of motorcars is limited by the environment, means that multiple gears aren't necessary.

Having said all that, I love driving, and much as I love driving my Tesla, I also get great enjoyment from driving ICE cars, and particularly from driving a manual car. It's like boating. You can go out in a yacht and derive enormous pleasure from using all the tools available to you to get it riding just right, in the right direction, maximising the use of the propulsive force (wind), and so forth, and get huge satisfaction from that. Or you can go in a motorboat and let the engine do (virtually) all the work. So it is with manual cars and automatic/electric cars. In a crowded area, at low speeds, an automatic car / motorboat is so much less effort. In a larger area, they're both great, but perhaps more enjoyment can be derived from using the extra skills that automatic cars and motorboats don't require.

Now excuse me, as I am sitting at the Yacht Club (which I drove to in my Tesla), and having finished my lunch am about to go out on my (motor)boat...
 
This is technically true, although the reality is that as motor speed increases, the ability of an EV to accelerate diminishes. This explains why a Tesla can pulverise most ICE supercars from a standing start, but at motorway speeds an ICE car can pulverise a Tesla in acceleration (and overtaking)

Depends on pack and motor setup. By increasing pack voltage (or decreasing the V/RPM of the motor), one can reduce or remove the back EMF caused high speed power reduction of an electric motor. With a high enough pack voltage, torque (current) can stay constant and power will increase linearly to redline.
 
There is the alternative safety point that people should learn to drive on a manual if possible. Else they may one day find themselves in a situation where the only route to safety or hospital is by driving a manual, and they are stuck.

I learned how to shift and clutch, and drove manual cars and trucks and semis for 60 years. It will soon be an unnecessary art as electrics easily compete with gas and diesel with more torque, more speed and far simpler drive train, hence lower cost. Gas cars cannot compete except in the minds of gearheads who are unable to move into the future. The rest of us will leave you at the light. Go ahead and roll coal while you can. What a waste.
 
I learned how to shift and clutch, and drove manual cars and trucks and semis for 60 years. It will soon be an unnecessary art as electrics easily compete with gas and diesel with more torque, more speed and far simpler drive train, hence lower cost. Gas cars cannot compete except in the minds of gearheads who are unable to move into the future. The rest of us will leave you at the light. Go ahead and roll coal while you can. What a waste.

I think you mistook me for an ICE fan. I have a model 3 reservation. Here in Aust we are patiently awaiting a right hand drive model.

And don't forget there are two very different timelines. There's the time until all new cars sold are electric, then there's the time until all cars on the road are electric. If your manual ICE driving friend offers you a lift to the beach, would you refuse it? If an irukandji gets them (migrating as waters warm due to climate change), you'll be an asset if you can drive their car.