Market politics

[lolachampcar]

This is unfortunately much too simplistic. First, elections are not held daily so nothing could happen until the next election. Second, if in fact 80% of our society could actually agree on something that is a single issue and no votes are ever about a single issue. Third, the voting system itself is flawed, as we saw in the last presidential election when the majority of people did not vote for the "winner".

and this is where the wheels come off the wagon.
We have forgotten to first do the job. We debate non-simplistic elements of human behavior adnausium yet we reject doing the most basic elements to succeed.

It is reasonable to think that most everyone that is not that very small percent of the very rich who are gaming the system would agree that money in politics is akin to yelling fire in a movie theater. It is free speech but speech that is so dangerous as to rise to the level of being banned. It really is that simple.

If you are monied interests, how do you combat such simplicity? Drive wedges so that voters will not come together and come to the obvious conclusion. You have been played and you are giving up on the simple obvious solution.

Electoral College or not, if 80% of the electorate wants purple buildings, they get purple buildings. Full stop. The vote works. We can debate just how long it will take us to dig ourselves out of a hole its taken decades to dig into but that is besides the point. The first thing you do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging. Yea, I know, that's too simple a view

 

[lolachampcar]

also, another bone to pick.

We spend a lot of time debating the merits of Trump's actions. His actions are not meaningful from a need to debate standpoint. His actions are based on the self interests of someone that cares little for the foundations of the country that has allowed him to live the privileged life he has had.

A proper wedge was driven between the electorate. The Russians identified this weakness and worked with one candidate to sway the process. Anyone here who thinks either (1) Russian interference or (2) illegal campaign funding of hush money to make sure the playboy bunny or the porn start did not sway things a week before the election did not have at least an 80K vote affect in three key states is not thinking properly.

We have what we deserve. We need to change. That starts with everyone on our side talking to everyone on their side and agreeing to execute common goals (like the abolition of money in politics). How can we demand that our elected officials perform when we refuse to?

 

[Heart Land]

The fence was never completed but your insane support for all things left leaves you blinded and unable to see anything that does align with your supposed facts, the problem I see with fanatical Democrats like yourself is that you only see what you believe even if its really dumb.

I am waiting hear the explanation defraying any credit to Trump, once the trade deals fall into place. Especially the China deal. They will probably say that it was completed in spite of Trump despite the trade with China not even being a central issue before he came along. The deals will especially be beneficial to Tesla, which will not be by accident either.

 

[wdolson]

and this is where the wheels come off the wagon.
We have forgotten to first do the job. We debate non-simplistic elements of human behavior adnausium yet we reject doing the most basic elements to succeed.

It is reasonable to think that most everyone that is not that very small percent of the very rich who are gaming the system would agree that money in politics is akin to yelling fire in a movie theater. It is free speech but speech that is so dangerous as to rise to the level of being banned. It really is that simple.

If you are monied interests, how do you combat such simplicity? Drive wedges so that voters will not come together and come to the obvious conclusion. You have been played and you are giving up on the simple obvious solution.

Electoral College or not, if 80% of the electorate wants purple buildings, they get purple buildings. Full stop. The vote works. We can debate just how long it will take us to dig ourselves out of a hole its taken decades to dig into but that is besides the point. The first thing you do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging. Yea, I know, that's too simple a view

Washington State once had the most open primary system in the country and polls showed over 90% of Washingtonians loved it. Someone sued the state in another state with a similar but a bit more restrictive system and it eventually made its way to the Supreme court who ruled that the states couldn't have uber open primaries like that and Washington needed to change along with the other state.

With a bit of experimenting Washington settled on a best two advance system which was later adopted by California, but is not as popular at the old system. So there are things more than 80% of the electorate want they can't have. Though it's usually rare.

A recent poll showed that 52% of Republicans are now in favor of Medicare for all. If the trend continues that could end up in the 80+% range for the entire country soon, but there are a lot of interests with a lot of lobbying money who will resist. It may not happen because of that.

 

[wdolson]

I am waiting hear the explanation defraying any credit to Trump, once the trade deals fall into place. Especially the China deal. They will probably say that it was completed in spite of Trump despite the trade with China not even being a central issue before he came along. The deals will especially be beneficial to Tesla, which will not be by accident either.

We're more likely to lose the trade war with China than strike any kind of deal. We're already losing.

 

[Intl Professor]

The same leaders, specifically Schumer has stated in the past that he is for a wall, ahem, excuse me, a fence.

Why is it that NOW it is so immoral? Schulosi are saying "no wall, fence of any kind" I believe it is nieve to think that there is another reason other than the "Resist Trump" mantra.

H.R. 6061 (109th): Secure Fence Act of 2006 -- Senate Vote #262 -- Sep 29, 2006

There is. The idea of holding the entire country hostage over a whim of the prez can lead to even more problems next time. All of us should consider this a potential grievous threat. Oddly, from a financial standpoint, Democrats are staking out the high ground on finances, what used to be the purview of a conservative party.

 

[AudubonB]

On trade with China:

IF any US increase in exports to China is effectively restricted to agricultural commodities, then it is no feather in anyone's cap. Not #45's, not Lightizer's, not Li Keqiang's. Foodstocks not only are a highly fungible item, but ultimately their trade is determined by demand. If China needs more soybeans, or rice, or wheat - they will purchase it. And if the soy comes from Brazil rather than from the US, then the US beans will make their way to the erstwhile other consumer.

BUT -
If there is meaningful advance in Intellectual Property protections, then I for one will give #45 credit. Not all credit, as this is an issue whose time most definitely has come, irrespective of who sits in the White House.

 

[Heart Land]

On trade with China:

IF any US increase in exports to China is effectively restricted to agricultural commodities, then it is no feather in anyone's cap. Not #45's, not Lightizer's, not Li Keqiang's. Foodstocks not only are a highly fungible item, but ultimately their trade is determined by demand. If China needs more soybeans, or rice, or wheat - they will purchase it. And if the soy comes from Brazil rather than from the US, then the US beans will make their way to the erstwhile other consumer.

BUT -
If there is meaningful advance in Intellectual Property protections, then I for one will give #45 credit. Not all credit, as this is an issue whose time most definitely has come, irrespective of who sits in the White House.

I am glad at least someone here will be able to hand out some credit where credit is due. But remember, all the status quo politicians (Dem and Rep) were asleep at the wheel regarding trade. Trump was the one that was smart enough to put a finger on the trade issues and has the experience to sort them out. So even the defrayed credit, saying the trade deals would have eventual been worked out anyways, is a bunch of bologna. Perhaps eventually trade would have been an issue (who knows when), but lifetime politicians do not have the business acumen to use/create leverage to negotiate a fair deal, much less bring China or the EU to the table. The lifetime politicians were the ones to create the mess in the first place.

 

[dmunjal]

I am glad at least someone here will be able to hand out some credit where credit is due. But remember, all the status quo politicians (Dem and Rep) were asleep at the wheel regarding trade. Trump was the one that was smart enough to put a finger on the trade issues and has the experience to sort them out. So even the defrayed credit, saying the trade deals would have eventual been worked out anyways, is a bunch of bologna. Perhaps eventually trade would have been an issue (who knows when), but lifetime politicians do not have the business acumen to use/create leverage to negotiate a fair deal, much less bring China or the EU to the table. The lifetime politicians were the ones to create the mess in the first place.

I would think any Tesla supporter would support Trump's efforts on normalizing trade policy with China.

It seems Musk does.

Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[Vitold]

I am glad at least someone here will be able to hand out some credit where credit is due. But remember, all the status quo politicians (Dem and Rep) were asleep at the wheel regarding trade. Trump was the one that was smart enough to put a finger on the trade issues and has the experience to sort them out. So even the defrayed credit, saying the trade deals would have eventual been worked out anyways, is a bunch of bologna. Perhaps eventually trade would have been an issue (who knows when), but lifetime politicians do not have the business acumen to use/create leverage to negotiate a fair deal, much less bring China or the EU to the table. The lifetime politicians were the ones to create the mess in the first place.

Do not count your chickens before they hatch.

 

[dmunjal]

Do not count your chickens before they hatch.

Thankfully, Elon Musk doesn't share your pessimism.

Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[Vitold]

Thankfully, Elon Musk doesn't share your pessimism.

Elon Musk on Twitter

In December Tesla applied for tariff relief as it was causing them economic harm and impacting Tesla’s profitability.

 

[JRP3]

Trump was the one that was smart enough to put a finger on the trade issues and has the experience to sort them out.

Trump isn't smart enough and has no experience to sort anything out. One of the many issues he's chosen to focus on may actually have a positive result in spite of his bumbling. It could have been handled much better without all the financial damage done in the meantime even if it turns out well in the end. If you want to call that a "win" for Trump be my guest, you don't have much else to celebrate.

 

[dmunjal]

Trump isn't smart enough and has no experience to sort anything out. One of the many issues he's chosen to focus on may actually have a positive result in spite of his bumbling. It could have been handled much better without all the financial damage done in the meantime even if it turns out well in the end. If you want to call that a "win" for Trump be my guest, you don't have much else to celebrate.

I hear this criticism a lot about Trump and I don't disagree. He's not a politician and has no clue how to govern.

But I'm going to focus on his results and not his process.

 

[dmunjal]

In December Tesla applied for tariff relief as it was causing them economic harm and impacting Tesla’s profitability.

Just the CPU/GPU I believe.

Tesla urges tariff exemption for Chinese-made car computer 'brain' | Reuters

 

[Intl Professor]

I hear this criticism a lot about Trump and I don't disagree. He's not a politician and has no clue how to govern.

But I'm going to focus on his results and not his process.

For that, of course, you must also demand patience and understanding from the victims of his attack. What rationale is there for the change in the cost of aluminum from Canada, for example?

I must be a free market capitalist after all.

 

[dmunjal]

For that, of course, you must also demand patience and understanding from the victims of his attack. What rationale is there for the change in the cost of aluminum from Canada, for example?

I must be a free market capitalist after all.

I don't understand his methods. He seems to treat every issue as a real estate deal and I have serious issues with this negotiating approach. But I'm willing to be open minded to see if there any results and be quick to dump him if there aren't.

There are so many issues that we have made zero progress on over the decades and multiple administrations. I'm willing to give an unconventional approach a try. I'm already happy with the progress with North Korea. Already more than any other president has been able to achieve.

Even if he fails, he has raised the visibility of these issues and has uncovered the hypocrisy of the establishment on both sides of the aisle. Who would ever thought we would see Democrats (not to mention the left wing media) embracing long hated Republicans like McCain and GWB? And siding with the intelligence community and the neocons.

 

[JRP3]

I'm already happy with the progress with North Korea. Already more than any other president has been able to achieve.

We must have a different definition of progress if that's what you consider Kim's bamboozling of Trump to be.

 

[dmunjal]

We must have a different definition of progress if that's what you consider Kim's bamboozling of Trump to be.

This isn't progress to you?

Kim Jong Un reaffirms commitment to denuclearization in letter to South Korea

Just two years ago, Obama said NK was the biggest threat on the planet.

And before you say this was all Moon's doing, Moon has given full credit to Trump.

Even if Trump wasn't involved at all, nothing like this happens without the tacit approval of the US. Makes you wonder why it didn't happen sooner.

 

[JRP3]

I don't believe what Kim says.