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Market politics

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by Lessmog, Feb 3, 2018.

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  1. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    Yes. This is a good description of actual pragmatism.
     
  2. Off Shore

    Off Shore Off Topic Member

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    Plus there's a whole administration to staff.
     
  3. defc0n

    defc0n Member

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    4C049B54-1115-4565-8C6A-B3B60F24EA37.jpeg
     
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  4. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    Eugene Robinson pointed out that in 2008 the African-American vote was for Hillary until they saw white people in Iowa would vote for Obama and then they shifted to Obama when he became viable.

    Biden has never shown any history of being a sexual predator. Trump is almost certainly a serial rapist. One of the problems in the political sphere today is people are losing sight of degrees of things. Biden's behavior has not always been appropriate, but all evidence shows his motives are drastically different from Donald Trump.

    Lee Atwater corrupted the Republican party. The Republicans lost all sight of policy and just wanted to win at all costs. They started playing the dirtiest political games which opened the door for Trump. Along the way most of the honest leaders in the party were either corrupted or driven out and replaced with people, who in I'm sure some cases, are psychopaths.

    The Democratic party was always interested in policy and never forgot that policy is what government is supposed to do. Lee Atwater said he would have worked for either party, but he knew the Democrats wouldn't have him, but the Republicans embraced him. There was a time when Democrats played dirty, but for the last half century at least there has been a sense of fair play within the party and cheating is a lot less tolerated than in the Republican party.

    Social Gospel was very popular in much of the northern US and it's still alive in the Yankee political views (the culture of the NE US). They lost their religion over the last century, but kept the view of trying to create a utopia on Earth.

    In Appalachia and the South a different form of religious ideal took hold that is a corruption of Calvin's ideas. The Prosperity Gospel is the ideal. In that mindset, God rewards people He favors be making them rich. It's very linked to the Deep South culture with a caste system. The rich people are at the top of the heap and the poor are poor because God says so (according to the Prosperity Gospel).

    The North is much more secular these days so a lot of people who walk the talk of Social Gospel today probably aren't aware it existed.

    It took hold in Canada far better than in the US because Canada doesn't have Appalachia or the South pulling the country in a different direction.

    It is true that in contemporaneous polls Sanders did better than Clinton in polls, but the last Bernie vs Trump poll was on June 5. In 2016 the Democratic party was actively resisting Bernie though. He was a breath of fresh air then. But now there are lifelong Democrats closer to his views running.
    RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Sanders

    RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Clinton

    Fivethirtyeight did a deep dive on how well Bernie was going in April 2016:
    Bernie Sanders Is Even Less Competitive Than He Appears

    I am concerned about Biden sloughing off questions about his past. He was in the Senate a long time and lived through some very big changes in American culture and what we collectively think the country should look like. He's made a lot of mistakes and should openly address all of them like Obama did about the accusations about his church pastor.

    If he keeps dismissing these things they will come back to haunt him.

    The debates will help sort the field out. I hope it starts to thin soon.

    By late in Obama's administration both he and Biden saw that the Republicans were going to oppose everything. One thing that is very concerning is that according to Rick Wilson who has a lot of insider information with Congress, Schumer still has the rose colored glasses and McConnell takes advantage of him at every turn.

    I don't think Biden is going to be as naive though. He's talking about it because he knows the middle wants to hear it.

    Pew has been tracking these things to some extent. Most independents lean towards the Democrats or Republicans and many of the true independents are pretty tuned out. But I don't think anyone has found any large number of political extremists among independents. Here is a breakdown of the Pew 2004 study:
    Political ideologies in the United States - Wikipedia

    I think Harris is my favorite thus far. Though at least a dozen would be fairly good.

    Unfortunately. Though he runs the risk of being forgotten when he inevitably fails to get the nomination for 2020. Beto obviously doesn't have a problem with the idea because he's already taken a shot at the Senate and has been in the House.
     
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  5. EVNow

    EVNow Well-Known Member

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    #4165 EVNow, Jun 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
    Both Hillary and Obama were establishment. Remember Kennedy supported Obama.

    Sure, Biden is better than Trump. But Trump is such a low bar … if anyone behaves like Biden in my current company, he will be fired the same day.

    Biden's behavior pattern shows a clear feeling of entitlement that only comes only to powerful men with no moral fiber. In 2019 we can and should be able to do better.

    BTW, Biden is very close to Wall St (remember fund raiser at Chanos). US Govt will continue to be a wholly owned subsidiary of Goldman Sachs under Biden administration.

    There is even a video of her mocking people who want more schools than prisons !

    KHTweet1.PNG
     
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  6. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    ACLU on Twitter
     
  7. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    Every candidate has negatives. I'm not really invested in any one candidate. I'm not even all that big on Biden, I'm just trying to make the case that at least before the debates Biden was doing best in a lot of states where other Democrats aren't. That could change. It's still more than six months before the first vote is cast.

    Of course Trump's people will appeal. But take every victory you can.
     
  8. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    This is basically a case over whether the executive branch can legally steal money. It's an open-and-shut case -- the executive is not allowed to spend money without Congressional authorization, and particularly not when Congress has explicitly voted against spending said money.

    I suspect even the Crooked Five on the Supreme Court are going to be shocked enough by the idea that at least one of them will say no. Frankly, a judge voting to allow the executive to steal money is an impeachable offense.
     
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  9. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    Kavenaugh and Thomas are Unitary Executive fans (as long as the executive is Republican, Thomas changes tune when the president is Democrat). Alito leans that way. But while Gorsuch is pretty conservative in a lot of ways, but probably would vote against Trump on overreach.

    Roberts is very aware that any decision he does can cut both ways. As a result he going to be very careful about any case that extends Trump's power. I suspect he loathes Trump personally and might see Kavenaugh's appointment as a major mistake.
     
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  10. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Member

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    Australian Medicare for all - 1975.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Bobfitz1

    Bobfitz1 Member

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    Nothing is more important than removing Trump. He is a political/social plague. However taking back the Senate is also critical and ought to figure into selecting the Dem candidate. The packing of federal courts and Supreme Court with far right judicial radicals that McConnell has now successfully engineered is a poisoning of the well that will last for decades and severely inhibit progressive change even if progressives dominate elections for many years. Two or four more years of the same will cement this for generations.
     
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  12. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    Oh, we'll have to reorganize the court system. Expand the Supreme Court and restructure the circuit courts to overwhelm the fake judges with larger numbers of real judges. There's really no other option. People should admit it and pressure Congress to do it.
     
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  13. ggr

    ggr Roadster R80 537, SigS P85 29, M3P 80k

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    Yes, and on Nov 11 of that year the Queen's representative dismissed the government. The resulting health care system after a few years of yo-yo doesn't look much like the above.
     
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  14. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    I was working in Sydney at that time. It was an extremely exciting and eye-opening opportunity to learn for someone who was....err....well, 44 years younger than he is now.
     
  15. HG Wells

    HG Wells Member

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    Well Obama won this 4th of July.
    He spent 2 million to seed the clouds with dry Ice (CO2) so it would rain on Donalds Parade.
    America won't forget !

    /S
     
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  16. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    So Trump apparently thinks that George Washington seized airports from the British during the Revolutionary War. ?!?!

    It is a sign of how much of a deranged leader-worshipping cult the Republican Party has become that they have not removed Trump from office using the 25th amendment, which is intended for Presidents who have lost their minds. No wonder Justin Amash ended his membership in the Republican Cult yesterday.

    Historically, Mad Kings, such as Trump, are really bad for business. Expect the general business climate to be a mess until the Mad King is removed.
     
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  17. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    Just as I opened this post my SO was talking about the exact same thing. She completely agrees with you (as do I).

    When the Democrats get the reigns of power they need to create a statute under the 25th Amendment to create a new way of removing the president. The 25th amendment does allow this. I think a good way to do it would be that either Congress or the judiciary can initiate an independent commission to investigate the fitness of the president. A good mix would be to make up the commission of ex-presidents, retired SCOTUS judges, and possibly ex secretary of state and AGs. None of which may be holding a government position. They can order medical and Psychological tests with doctors of their choice. At the end they vote and a 2/3 majority invokes the 25th amendment.

    Retired officials are probably the best we're going to get for people who understand the job well enough as well as be independent enough to evaluate the fitness of the president with as little party bias as possible. At this point I would think any Republican ex-president would vote to invoke the 25th on Trump (though there is only one alive at the moment). GW Bush is the closest to Trump's behavior we've ever seen in the presidency and he's no fan of Trump.

    The problem with checks and balances is they work as long as a majority of the people involved remain at least a bit fair and are willing to put the country in their top 10 priorities. But the Republicans are a cult and they are in lock step with mad king Trump. They are unwilling to pull the trigger on impeachment because they are afraid of the mean Tweet and Trump's base. But Trump's base ultimately does what the voices on their television tell them to do. If Faux News turned on Trump the base would erode very quickly.
     
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  18. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    There's also the possibility of putting state governors in charge of the process of removing a deranged President. With the exception of Sam Brownback, Governors generally have to deal with the actual administrative consequences of having a lunatic running the federal government. So even Republican Governors don't want to deal with that. (Again, with the exception of Brownback, who happily wrecked Kansas's economy completely, Republican *governors* have often ended up being more pragmatic than Republican *legislators*.)
     
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  19. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    The problem with any Republican holding office is the party will put a lot of pressure on them to vote the party line. Someone who is out of office with no plans to run for office again has the luxury of going against the party line if they want. I've noticed Republican ex-Corgress people who are not going back tend to be much more critical of Trump than every currently elected Republican combined (the only one with a backbone just left the party).
     
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  20. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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