Market politics

[Paracelsus]

Sunrise Movement is a Yuuuge endorsement for Sanders. They intend to put millions of young people in the streets across the county to get the Green New Deal passed as their highest priority, and thus they have backed Sanders as their greatest chance for successful implementation of the Green New Deal. The Main Stream Media has done an excellent job of almost entirely removing this rapidly growing movement from our 'news'........in large part because Sunrise Movement is literally the homegrown equivalent of Greta's Friday for Future in the US, and they will be our Yellow Vests fighting for the Green New Deal

 

[Coolio2000]

So how do we pay for the Green New Deal without destroying our economy? I support protecting the environment and renewable energy, while using common sense.

 

[JRP3]

How did we pay for the original New Deal without destroying our economy?

 

[winfield100]

So how do we pay for the Green New Deal without destroying our economy? I support protecting the environment and renewable energy, while using common sense.

Vietnam was estimated to have wasted $30 Billions or (if memory is good)
Everlasting war in Middle East, $3-5Trillions or more.

 

[Coolio2000]

Totally agree that we need to get out of the Middle East, but don’t forget, we still have to forgive everyone’s student loan debt.

 

[bhtooefr]

Print money, as well as extract hoarded wealth so that it creates value.

Inflation is when the currency loses value. Printing money for social programs creates value and therefore won't cause inflation, as long as mechanisms are in place to keep that currency in circulation.

Also, if the economy can't sustain a society's needs, that economy should be destroyed.

 

[JRP3]

Totally agree that we need to get out of the Middle East, but don’t forget, we still have to forgive everyone’s student loan debt.

What does that have to do with the GND? Other than the fact that forgiving student loan debt frees up cash to buy actual products, which will stimulate the economy, just as the GND will stimulate the economy. The GND doesn't need to be "paid for".

 

[dmunjal]

Print money, as well as extract hoarded wealth so that it creates value.

Inflation is when the currency loses value. Printing money for social programs creates value and therefore won't cause inflation, as long as mechanisms are in place to keep that currency in circulation.

Also, if the economy can't sustain a society's needs, that economy should be destroyed.

Printing money always causes inflation. Right now, that inflation is directed at assets like equities, commodities, and real estate. It usually goes into consumer goods but technology and globalization has kept a lid on that. That being said, the poor suffer the most because it raises their cost of living, especially with rent and energy.

The other reason printing dollars doesn't turn the US into Zimbabwe or Venezuela is because the US dollar is the reserve currency of the world enforced by the US military and the petrodollar standard with OPEC. This is why we spend so much blood and treasure in the Middle East.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

So how do we pay for the Green New Deal without destroying our economy? I support protecting the environment and renewable energy, while using common sense.

Could always roll back some of those recent business tax cuts, particularly since its consumers, not businesses, driving the current boom.

 

[dmunjal]

Vietnam was estimated to have wasted $30 Billions or (if memory is good)
Everlasting war in Middle East, $3-5Trillions or more.

Because of the Vietnam War and Great Society spending, we had to get off the gold standard in 1971 which allowed the US Treasury to run perpetual deficits for the next 50 years.

 

[dmunjal]

What does that have to do with the GND? Other than the fact that forgiving student loan debt frees up cash to buy actual products, which will stimulate the economy, just as the GND will stimulate the economy. The GND doesn't need to be "paid for".

I like Bernie's plan to pay off student dent using a Wall Street financial transaction tax. I don't like printing money to do it.

Also, we have to understand that giving free money to 18 year olds is driving tuition inflation and should be curtailed.

 

[Fredneck]

Because this news article discussing Trump reaching out to Jimmy Carter for advice on China from April of last year became extremely relevant with the events in Iran and at the Tesla Gigafactory this last week........

"In China, meanwhile, the economic benefits of peace were clear to the eye. "How many miles of high-speed railroad do we have in this country?" he asked. While China has some 18,000 miles of high-speed rail, the U.S. has "wasted, I think, $3 trillion" on military spending. "It's more than you can imagine. China has not wasted a single penny on war, and that's why they're ahead of us. In almost every way.....

That's not actually true. China has been at war many times in many ways. Who were we fighting in Korea, Vietnam... who has built a new Navy which they are using to bully countries in nearby waters?

But China's policies are much more strategic than simply avoiding war IMHO. They have literally doubled down on their economic bet because at the same time China has also transitioned its focus towards 100% renewable energy and 100% adoption of Electric Vehicles.......further implementing China's integrated vision of "no need for wars because no dependence on fossil fuels."

We are working our way toward that, possibly faster than China even.

It is good to be reminded of Jimmy Carter while our elected officials on both sides of the aisle have just passed Military Budgets that are 50% larger than during the height of the Iraq War, and we are now at the tipping point with a war with Iran. For it was Jimmy Carter who put Solar Panels on the White House roof. And one of the very first actions of the Reagan Administration was to take those solar panels down and refer to them as "just a joke." In hindsight perhaps those solar panels were worth several $Trillion

Most of us are products of our times. It takes a rare individual to see beyond the pressing issues of the times and know what will be important later in life. I don't think this writer has that vision. In fact, he seems focused on the past.

 

[Fredneck]

I like Bernie's plan to pay off student dent using a Wall Street financial transaction tax. I don't like printing money to do it.

Also, we have to understand that giving free money to 18 year olds is driving tuition inflation and should be curtailed.

No one prints money to pay debt other than a counterfeiter. Also, there is no "free money" about unless you are planning to give some away???

 

[Coolio2000]

You guys do realize that Trump is going to be re-elected?

Far-left Ideas like the Green New Deal, student loan forgiveness, Russian conspiracy, impeachment, free socialized healthcare, raising taxes, etc, are just too extreme and unpalatable for your average American.

Throw in a booming economy and the Democrats are screwed.

 

[dmunjal]

No one prints money to pay debt other than a counterfeiter. Also, there is no "free money" about unless you are planning to give some away???

It's free from an 18 year old's perspective. No different than the no-income/no-job (NINJA) loans that were taken out by home buyers during the housing boom. That it has to be paid back or defaulted on is not understood at the time of purchase.

The point I'm making is lending money so easily drives the costs higher. The definition of inflation is too much money chasing too few goods. Demand > Supply.

If you create too much money through debt to buy houses, college educations, etc it will inevitably drive the price of that good higher. Having artificially low interest rates exasperates the problem.

It's explained pretty well here.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/staff_reports/sr733.pdf

"We study the link between the student credit expansion of the past fifteen years and the contemporaneous rise in college tuition. To disentangle simultaneity issues, we analyze the effects of increases in federal student loan caps using detailed student-level financial data. We find a pass-through effect on tuition of changes in subsidized loan maximums of about 60 cents on the dollar, and smaller but positive effects for unsubsidized federal loans. The subsidized loan effect is most pronounced for more expensive degrees, those offered by private institutions, and for two-year or vocational programs."

 

[bhtooefr]

Realistically, the way to handle the student loan crisis in the future is to put tight price controls on tuition, and then just make it free for tuition below that price cap, with no assistance above that cap.

That creates an incentive for universities to meet that price cap, rather than inflate tuition.

However, the existing crisis is still a problem, and squeezing blood from a turnip doesn't work. There, debt forgiveness is probably the best way to go.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

You guys do realize that Trump is going to be re-elected?

Far-left Ideas like the Green New Deal, student loan forgiveness, Russian conspiracy, impeachment, free socialized healthcare, raising taxes, etc, are just too extreme and unpalatable for your average American.

Throw in a booming economy and the Democrats are screwed.

But far right ones like mandating purchases of coal, massive tax cuts exclusively for the wealthy, “deep state” conspiracy, booting millions off of any form of healthcare, imprisoning(and, through negligence, killing) children seeking asylum, massive unprovoked trade wars against our allies, etc, aren’t?

Not willing to definitively state Trump won’t win in 2020, but in no way is he any more reasonable or middle of the road than even the most extreme liberal Democratic candidate.

 

[bhtooefr]

Also realize that there's a lot of people who haven't had anyone to vote for. Remember that eligible non-voters were the largest bloc in the 2016 election, larger than either Clinton or Trump.

Nominating a far-left candidate may well give them enough reason to come out to vote, that they outnumber Trump's supporters. It's not like we can test this hypothesis in this political climate without, you know, trying it - we've had neoliberal after neoliberal, after all.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

It's free from an 18 year old's perspective. No different than the no-income/no-job (NINJA) loans that were taken out by home buyers during the housing boom. That it has to be paid back or defaulted on is not understood at the time of purchase.

The point I'm making is lending money so easily drives the costs higher. The definition of inflation is too much money chasing too few goods. Demand > Supply.

If you create too much money through debt to buy houses, college educations, etc it will inevitably drive the price of that good higher. Having artificially low interest rates exasperates the problem.

It's explained pretty well here.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/staff_reports/sr733.pdf

"We study the link between the student credit expansion of the past fifteen years and the contemporaneous rise in college tuition. To disentangle simultaneity issues, we analyze the effects of increases in federal student loan caps using detailed student-level financial data. We find a pass-through effect on tuition of changes in subsidized loan maximums of about 60 cents on the dollar, and smaller but positive effects for unsubsidized federal loans. The subsidized loan effect is most pronounced for more expensive degrees, those offered by private institutions, and for two-year or vocational programs."

Ah, I was wondering what you meant by “free money”. This is true, but far worse for the student than it was for those home purchasers. They could take the hit to their credit scores and walk away from the house. Said students are often locked into indentured servitude, forever working solely to pay the interest on the debt, with no possible way of ever getting out of it(since even bankruptcy can’t remove it)

 

[JRP3]

You guys do realize that Trump is going to be re-elected?

Far-left Ideas like the Green New Deal, student loan forgiveness, Russian conspiracy, impeachment, free socialized healthcare, raising taxes, etc, are just too extreme and unpalatable for your average American.

Throw in a booming economy and the Democrats are screwed.

You mean like Hillary was going to be elected, with a booming economy? Trump has done nothing to improve the economy, it's growing at the same rate as under Obama. I think the lesson Trump has taught people is that even with a lunatic like him "in charge" the economy won't be derailed. I think this might encourage people to be willing to try someone else not so obviously unhinged.