In my opinion, the Al/metal air hybrid solution makes a lot of sense. It will benefit the owners who travel long distance 2-3 times a year as some of you suggested in this tread. It does not make sense to me to swap my 1-year old battery with a 3-year old while I am on the road and cannot get my original battery back. I am sure Tesla is hard at work on this one (if this is the right implementation) and continue the supercharger strategy which I think is well thought out.
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Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium–air_battery :
"[..] Aluminium–air batteries are primary cells; i.e., non-rechargeable. Once the aluminium anode is consumed by its reaction with atmospheric oxygen at a cathode immersed in a water-based electrolyte to form hydrated aluminium oxide, the battery will no longer produce electricity. However, it is possible to mechanically recharge the battery with new aluminium anodes made from recycling the hydrated aluminium oxide. Such recycling will be essential if aluminium–air batteries are to be widely adopted. [..]" .
"[..] Aluminium–air batteries are primary cells; i.e., non-rechargeable. Once the aluminium anode is consumed by its reaction with atmospheric oxygen at a cathode immersed in a water-based electrolyte to form hydrated aluminium oxide, the battery will no longer produce electricity. However, it is possible to mechanically recharge the battery with new aluminium anodes made from recycling the hydrated aluminium oxide. Such recycling will be essential if aluminium–air batteries are to be widely adopted. [..]" .
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
I assume you arw reffering to artsci's post? Why would you want to run a cable from an extension battery in the frunk to behind the touchscreen? Makes no sense. The connection would have to go to the main battery, I presume?
I think a luxury car with a metal-air battery range extender should have no compromises , no limp home, no 60 mph limit but 80-85 for as long as there is charge, just as the Model S is now.
This seems to be about 40 Kw continuous not the 15 Kw some people are proposing, or about 500 watts/mile. As always range is dependent on driving, but driving should not be a compromise.
This seems to be about 40 Kw continuous not the 15 Kw some people are proposing, or about 500 watts/mile. As always range is dependent on driving, but driving should not be a compromise.
jeff_adams
Member
I think it will have to be interfaced with the touchscreen anyway, so why wouldn't Tesla just put all the connections in the same place? Of course the power cable would be connected to the main pack, but all the connections could be on a single harness. Easy to thread through the tube into the frunk.....
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Well, it's not the size of a USB cable for sure... if it's going to be able to deliver whatever the Al-air battery can deliver, let's say at least 20kW or something, that a lot of amps... The main battery is not connected to the touchscreen at all. I don't think you realize the gauge of the wiring between the charge port, battery and drive-train (the battery can supply a peak of >320kW to the motor).
ToddRLockwood
Active Member
Is it my imagination, or is something supposed to mate with this slot in the back of the frunk? A future connector, perhaps?
I was scanning through Elon's twitter feed this morning and noticed a few tweets that back up what imherkimer and TD1 said in the first post on this thread. Specifically, they link announcements 4 (superchargers) & 5 (under your nose) of the trilogy together:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/332516435488280577
@elonmusk: "There is a way for the Tesla Model S to be recharged throughout the country faster than you could fill a gas tank."
@realbhuwan: "@elonmusk yeah, we're waiting for superchargers
"
@elonmusk: "@realbhuwan Don't forget the mystery announcement. Part 5 of the trilogy."
Also, I think Elon's use of the word "throughout" is a good clue that the trickle-charging air-metal battery theory is in the right direction... it implies an ongoing charge, rather than a supercharger or full battery-swap solution.
Unfortunately, he also just tweeted that the Supercharger announcement is being pushed to next week.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/332516435488280577
@elonmusk: "There is a way for the Tesla Model S to be recharged throughout the country faster than you could fill a gas tank."
@realbhuwan: "@elonmusk yeah, we're waiting for superchargers
"@elonmusk: "@realbhuwan Don't forget the mystery announcement. Part 5 of the trilogy."
Also, I think Elon's use of the word "throughout" is a good clue that the trickle-charging air-metal battery theory is in the right direction... it implies an ongoing charge, rather than a supercharger or full battery-swap solution.
Unfortunately, he also just tweeted that the Supercharger announcement is being pushed to next week.
deonb
Active Member
Crap! Did I just order something that will become obsolete in the next 3 days?
(Not a real outrage.)
Upon looking a bit closer, it's also interesting that the number of dots on each of the two circles is different. I suppose it could be a date code of some kind? Though that seems unlikely.
I don't have our car today else I'd be running out to my frunk to see if the dot arrangements are the same...
I don't think that's a side note at all - I think it's one more shred of evidence that we're on the right track here!
(I had been somewhat annoyed that our car didn't come with the cargo net... but now I'm starting to feel a bit better about that... sorry deonb!)
First get your units straight
Second, Metal-air battery range extender could, should and would work all the time except when the battery is full and car is Off.
Hence ~15kW is more than enough. Average speeds hardly exceed 50 mph, 250 miles takes ~5 hours in which you get 75 additional kWh.
Don't forget that spirited driving is not sustainable - internals overheat and power gets limited.
The best is the worst enemy of the good enough.
jeff_adams
Member
Imagine living in an area where all the power gets knocked out for a week after a heavy storm. You'd have the ability to recharge your battery and maybe even have some power for your house. Pretty cool if they have the technology working
Lol. A friend of mine asked me 2 days ago what would I about my car if something like Hurricaine Sandy hit the Northeast region again. Well if this is true, then I have a great answer
dmckinstry
Model X 2019
This whole thread makes me think of the possibility of leasing the metal-air battery at the beginning of a long trip, permitting a guarantee of getting to the next charging station, recharging your own battery when you do reach the charging station, and swapping the metal-air battery at the same time. There's no reason to keep the metal-air battery in you Model S the entire time, just for such extended trips. For me, that would be a great idea, as I have to go over 700 or 800 miles from Eastern Washington to the first supercharger currently available. Not everyone going only 300 to 500 miles in one day would need one, but those going on cross country or from Canada to Southern California could. The inventory wouldn't have to be as much for Tesla, since those planning such a trip could make arrangements for installation points along their route.
The idea of a metal-air battery for range extension, which can be installed or removed at will and which supplies 500+ miles worth of additional rated range, may or may not be real... but I like it!
I would especially like it if:
1. It can be installed and removed by the owner without specialized techs, so I can keep one at home and install/remove it as needed.
2. It fits in a place like the hole in the frunk so it doesn't appreciably reduce my cargo capacity.
3. Tesla gives me the choice of either leasing one when needed, or buying one and knowing what it will cost to replace it with a fresh one when it's depleted.
I would especially like it if:
1. It can be installed and removed by the owner without specialized techs, so I can keep one at home and install/remove it as needed.
2. It fits in a place like the hole in the frunk so it doesn't appreciably reduce my cargo capacity.
3. Tesla gives me the choice of either leasing one when needed, or buying one and knowing what it will cost to replace it with a fresh one when it's depleted.
Why are people complaining so much about loosing the frunk space? Its a very small trade off for the ability to go farther than any ICE can possibly go on a single charge. I mean c'mon, that space wouldn't even have existed in the first place had you purchased an ICE. Not to mention that the Model S still has a TON of space in the back.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Just to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, there are rechargeable metal-air batteries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium–air_battery
Tesla might want to look at that instead (even though it might take a bit longer).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium–air_battery
Tesla might want to look at that instead (even though it might take a bit longer).
deonb
Active Member
Elon is South African. As a fellow countrymen of him I'd like to point out that we don't ever throw 'monkey wrenches' into the works. We've got 'baboon spanners' for that...
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