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Mars and Off Planet Colonization - General Possibilities Discussion

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I was foolish to throw this out into a certain "Investors' Froum" thread; few of the cognoscenti inhabit that space. So am cutting-and-pasting here what I'd written.....I'm really confused -


This High-resolution gravity map confirms Mars’ molten core says Mars does have a molten core.


Well, blanketyblanketyblankblankblank.

==>If Mars does have a molten core....where in blazes is its expletive blasted into the Oort Cloud ferschliggina magnetic field?

Whasss going on here? All stony agglomeration - none of those juicy nickel-irons? How could Earth and Mars have agglomerated so differently? Who's in charge of this Solar System, anyway?
 
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Who's in charge of this Solar System, anyway?
The universe is indifferent to your concerns. :)

If Mars does in fact have a molten core, perhaps it is simply not fluid enough to spin rapidly enough to generate a powerful enough magnetic field to have any useful effect -- from a human habitation point of view -- of providing any cosmic ray shielding at the surface of the planet.
 
It also might be the case that a Mars-sized planet can't pirouette (¿fouette?) properly; that it need be closer to Earth-sized in order to create the dynamo that engenders the magnetic field. But I'm thinking that any molten core would spin, and if there were anything like a modest ferric component that a magnetic field - even if weak - would ensue, and that our instruments would have detected it.

So back to my original frustration: could Mars possibly have agglomerated from non-ferric cosmic garbage only? That seems lunatic (wrong choice of word for astronomia).

I've got a colleague who's devoted her academic career to Mars (as I once had been wont to do). It's Christmas-Card-Season now anyway....time to send for an explanation.
 
It also might be the case that a Mars-sized planet can't pirouette (¿fouette?) properly; that it need be closer to Earth-sized in order to create the dynamo that engenders the magnetic field. But I'm thinking that any molten core would spin, and if there were anything like a modest ferric component that a magnetic field - even if weak - would ensue, and that our instruments would have detected it.

So back to my original frustration: could Mars possibly have agglomerated from non-ferric cosmic garbage only? That seems lunatic (wrong choice of word for astronomia).

I've got a colleague who's devoted her academic career to Mars (as I once had been wont to do). It's Christmas-Card-Season now anyway....time to send for an explanation.

It seems that there isn't enough direct data to come to any real conclusions but here is an article that talks about the theory of some scientists working on this:

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2009/04/did-marss-magnetic-field-die-whimper-or-bang
 
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Thanks for the link. If that theory has legs - and on first and second read-throughs I have some doubts - then my suggestion that Mars might not have been massive enough to sustain the dynamo might also have some merit. But, whether it's correct or not, I'm very happy to learn that some have come up with possible answers to this.
 
Thanks for the link. If that theory has legs - and on first and second read-throughs I have some doubts - then my suggestion that Mars might not have been massive enough to sustain the dynamo might also have some merit. But, whether it's correct or not, I'm very happy to learn that some have come up with possible answers to this.

Found a link which may (or may not) address your question to:

Planetary Science

Interesting points (Magnetic Dynamo theory): [snipped quotes, read the link for full description]

1. Venus has no magnetic field (or one so weak, it hasn't been detected yet). It probably has a liquid conducting interior for a couple of reasons:

(a) Since it is almost the size of the Earth, its interior should still be very warm. Larger planets lose their heat from formation and radioactive decay more slowly than small planets. A planet with a larger volume than another planet of the same composition will start off with a larger supply of heat energy. In addition, the heat in a large planet's interior has a great distance to travel to reach the planet's surface and the cold outer space.

The rate of heat loss increases with the surface area. A planet with a larger surface area than another planet with the same internal temperature will have a larger rate of heat loss. The time it takes for a planet to cool off depends on the total amount of heat stored/rate of heat loss or (its volume)/(its surface area). Recall from the planet volume section that the volume increases as the diameter3. The surface area increases as only the diameter2, so the planet's cooling time increases as diameter3/diameter2 = diameter. Even though its heat loss rate is greater, a larger planet has a much larger amount of energy stored in it and, thus, it will take longer to cool off than a smaller planet. Venus should have a iron-nickel core that is still liquid like the Earth's.

(b) High resolution radar imaging of Venus' surface by the Magellan spacecraft shows several places where volcanos have erupted recently and produced large lava flows. Recent infrared imaging of Venus' surface by the Venus Express spacecraft shows material that has just come out of some shield volcanoes, so Venus is still active.

The reasons why Venus does not have a global magnetic field are that it spins very s-l-o-w-l-y (about once every 243 Earth days!) and the absence of convection in the liquid core (probably because of the lack of plate tectonics for the past half billion years).

2. Mars has an extremely weak magnetic field but for a different reason than Venus. Mars is about half the diameter of the Earth and has about 1/10th the Earth's mass, so its internal heat should have disappeared to space long ago. So even though Mars spins quickly (once every 24.6 hours), its metallic core is mostly solid---the charges are not able to swirl about. A recent gravity field map shows that Mars has a liquid outer core of molten rock. Mars' crust is also probably too thick for plate tectonics to occur even if the core had not cooled.

3. Earth has a strong magnetic field because it spins fast (once every 23.93 hours), it has a liquid conducting core made of liquid iron-nickel, and it has plate tectonics.

4. Jupiter has a HUGE magnetic field. Jupiter has a large amount of hydrogen that is super-compressed to form the strange liquid called liquid metallic hydrogen. This material cannot be produced on the Earth because the super-high pressures needed to squeeze some of the electrons out of liquid hydrogen cannot be produced. Jupiter also spins very quickly---one rotation in under 10 hours!

5. Mercury is a bit surprising because it has a weak magnetic field. Mercury is the smallest of the terrestrial planets, so its interior should have cooled off long ago. Also, Mercury spins slowly---once every 58.8 days. Mercury's high density tells us that it has a proportionally large iron-nickel core. Its magnetic field implies that Mercury's interior is probably partially molten. In mid-2007 astronomers announced independent evidence in favor of a molten core for Mercury. Using very careful observations of Mercury's rotation, they found that Mercury's core could not be solid (see the next section for more on this technique).

PS--Thanks for raising this question! Found the information about Venus fascinating.
 
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That gibes with the quick response I received from my friend...and with my conjecture that Mars might not have had sufficient mass. Her synopsis follows:


The issue is that (as you know) a planet has to have a convecting
liquid core to have a magnetic field. Mars is a lot smaller than
Earth (4/7 the size) and it simply cooled off faster than Earth
because it's so much smaller. It is still hot in the interior, but
not hot enough to convect and give rise to magnetic field. Yes,
there's plenty of heat there -- enough to generate the largest volcano
in the solar system (Olympus Mons) but the inner core is likely solid,
and has been for billions of years. The molten outer core of which
they speak in the link above is neither large enough nor convecting
enough to give rise to a field...
 
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I am puzzling over how the innermost core of Mars managed to cool enough to become solid yet the surrounding material is still hot enough to be molten far below the much colder crust of the planet, since the inner core would be under greater pressure. I assume it has to do with the inner solid core being a significantly different composition than the outer molten core layer.

It certainly stretches one's imagination thinking about how our solar system has changed over the approximately 4.5 billion years it has been in existence. And while the Sun will continue to "burn" for at least 4 billion more years, there is a line of reasoning to suggest that in only about 1 billion years the predicted 10% increase in the sun's brightness before it will render the Earth uninhabitable because all surface water will boil away. After that the surface of the Sun will expand to beyond the orbit of the Earth. Haven't found anything regarding whether or not it will also engulf Mars before collapsing and becoming a white dwarf star (the Sun is not massive enough to go nova).

On the plus side, over the next billion years Mars will warm up and therefore remain habitable for much longer than the Earth, giving humanity more time to figure out how to cross interstellar distances.

All the more reason to start working now on creating a self-sustaining human civilization on Mars! Time's a wasting...
 
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Yes - inner & out cores being different is the key...at least, if we use the terran model, which I think is a reasonable assumption.

Mars will be no place for a vacation once Sol goes red giant. A generation, two at max, more leeway than here. But I've already made my plans.
 
Indeed it is amazing; neither my unreadable Viscosity of the Earth's Mantle* nor, indeed, any reference other than the most recent works ever have paid much to earth's core flow, other than, well, it must, as that's how our magnetic field exists.

But naught to blame: after all, how possibly could we study it? So fine kudos to these researchers for their patient dissection of magnetic trends.

To me, the most astonishing revelation is that it appears the predominant such stream has tripled its flow rate since 2000. Consider: a 260-mile wide current of molten iron, 30-60 miles deep, with such a change. That's a lot of energy transfer.

*Author Larry Cathles, upon hearing at the 19xx AGU Conference, that I bought his book, could only reply "Bless you!".
 
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Van Allen Probes detect barrier around Earth
SCIENCE
Van Allen Probes detect barrier around Earth

SpaceFlight Insider - 9h ago


The identical Van Allen Probes follow similar orbits that take them through both the inner and outer radiation belts. The highly elliptical orbits range from a minimum altitude of approximately 373 miles (600 kilometers) to a maximum altitude of ...

My comment:

Wonder if early development of Mars could use this to construct an artificial Van Allen Belt? Also could this be used for the spaceships themselves?
 
Van Allen Probes detect barrier around Earth
SCIENCE
Van Allen Probes detect barrier around Earth

SpaceFlight Insider - 9h ago


The identical Van Allen Probes follow similar orbits that take them through both the inner and outer radiation belts. The highly elliptical orbits range from a minimum altitude of approximately 373 miles (600 kilometers) to a maximum altitude of ...

My comment:

Wonder if early development of Mars could use this to construct an artificial Van Allen Belt? Also could this be used for the spaceships themselves?

Van Allen Belt is caused by Earths magnetic field interacting with incoming radiation. Creating magnetic field for Mars is theoretically possible (superconducting cables around the planet), but too large task for early development of Mars.

I understand from the article that VLF can move inner edge of Van Allen Belt

Magnetic field around the spaceship would need to be extremely strong to deflect radiation in short distance available. Again large practicality problem.
 
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New tweet from Elon concerning Mars and ITS:

Elon Musk on Twitter

So the plan is to first discover life on Mars. Then, get out the word about how great it is to live here on planet Earth. Finally, parlay that into convincing the Martians to pay for the giant rockets. Kidding aside, and with credit due to Grendal, here is a link to Elon's paper just published on the website of New Space.
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie (States error, but the link still seems to work)

As ecarfan projected, quite an interesting read. A ton of details. even cool graphics, yet it's written in layman's terms. If anyone doubts Elon's determination to eventually inhabit Mars, here is quote that I believe to be most sincere. "I should also add that the main reason I am personally accumulating assets is in order to fund this. I really do not have any other motivation for personally accumulating assets except to be able to make the biggest contribution I can to making life multi-planetary." Elon Musk
 
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So the plan is to first discover life on Mars. Then, get out the word about how great it is to live here on planet Earth. Finally, parlay that into convincing the Martians to pay for the giant rockets. Kidding aside, and with credit due to Grendal, here is a link to Elon's paper just published on the website of New Space.
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie (States error, but the link still seems to work)

As ecarfan projected, quite an interesting read. A ton of details. even cool graphics, yet it's written in layman's terms. If anyone doubts Elon's determination to eventually inhabit Mars, here is quote that I believe to be most sincere. "I should also add that the main reason I am personally accumulating assets is in order to fund this. I really do not have any other motivation for personally accumulating assets except to be able to make the biggest contribution I can to making life multi-planetary." Elon Musk

Thanks for that useful link. It is, however, a summary of the presentation from September and not the new Mars version 2 that Elon was twittering about.
 
Thanks for that useful link. It is, however, a summary of the presentation from September and not the new Mars version 2 that Elon was twittering about.

Aha, sounds good, so there are more details coming concerning the costs Mars operations. It will be interesting to hear the reactions of critical thinkers such as Neil deGrasse Tyson. Keeping an open mind will be important to understanding the possibilities. In the past I've eaten crow thinking that some of Musk's ideas wouldn't work out.
 
As @Grendal pointed out, that "paper" is not new, it is Elon's 2016 presentation to the IAC in Mexico. I don't understand why it was published since Elon's presentation has been on the SpaceX website for 9 months now.
So the plan is to first discover life on Mars. Then, get out the word about how great it is to live here on planet Earth. Finally, parlay that into convincing the Martians to pay for the giant rockets. Kidding aside, and with credit due to Grendal, here is a link to Elon's paper just published on the website of New Space.
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie (States error, but the link still seems to work)

As ecarfan projected, quite an interesting read. A ton of details. even cool graphics, yet it's written in layman's terms. If anyone doubts Elon's determination to eventually inhabit Mars, here is quote that I believe to be most sincere. "I should also add that the main reason I am personally accumulating assets is in order to fund this. I really do not have any other motivation for personally accumulating assets except to be able to make the biggest contribution I can to making life multi-planetary." Elon Musk