-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Martian Wheels MW03
- Thread starter cdrikari
- Start date
- Status
TonyJag
Member
I am still working on quantifying rolling resistance for a number of candidate tires to put on my new MW03 18" x8.5" wheels.
Martian Wheels MW03
Thanks to those who have responded so far, but I NEED MORE INPUTS on other Model 3 owner's experience with these tires, especially quantitative rolling resistance or its effect on Wh/mile compared with OEM 20" and 18" tires marked "TO" ..Tesla Specific.
I have NOT been able to find the EU Label, or at least the Fuel Efficiency Class (A-E), for each of the 3 following Michelin Tires:
-Primacy MXM4 235/45R18/XL T0 98W (OEM tires) MOST IMPORTANT (I did find a label for the Primacy 4 (no MXM), but it seems to be a different tyre, with lighter weight and rim protection. Some variants hav a RRC Class of A and others are B)
-Pilot Sport All Season4 235/45ZR18/XL 98Y
-Pilot Sport A/S 3+ 235/45R18/XL 98V
Nor for the following 3 other tyres:
-Pirelli P ZERO ALL SEASON PLUS 235/45R18/XL 98Y
-Continental EXTREME CONTACT DWS06 235/45R18/XL 98Y
-NOKIAN WR G4 235/45R18/XL 98V
These Tyres may not be sold in EU.
Thanks
Martian Wheels MW03
Thanks to those who have responded so far, but I NEED MORE INPUTS on other Model 3 owner's experience with these tires, especially quantitative rolling resistance or its effect on Wh/mile compared with OEM 20" and 18" tires marked "TO" ..Tesla Specific.
I have NOT been able to find the EU Label, or at least the Fuel Efficiency Class (A-E), for each of the 3 following Michelin Tires:
-Primacy MXM4 235/45R18/XL T0 98W (OEM tires) MOST IMPORTANT (I did find a label for the Primacy 4 (no MXM), but it seems to be a different tyre, with lighter weight and rim protection. Some variants hav a RRC Class of A and others are B)
-Pilot Sport All Season4 235/45ZR18/XL 98Y
-Pilot Sport A/S 3+ 235/45R18/XL 98V
Nor for the following 3 other tyres:
-Pirelli P ZERO ALL SEASON PLUS 235/45R18/XL 98Y
-Continental EXTREME CONTACT DWS06 235/45R18/XL 98Y
-NOKIAN WR G4 235/45R18/XL 98V
These Tyres may not be sold in EU.
Thanks
Last edited:
Ericna
Member
Sorry to bother you but I herd you may have a discount code for Martian wheels? I am very interested in them for my Y
Thanks!
Eric
No worries, feel free to pm me anything related to drag racing or these wheels too. I have them in 20x9, 18x7.5... 18x9.5 in near future as well.
Referral Link: Martian Wheels
Discount Code: JASONLEON
Roaddkill
Roadkill
Does anyone know if the 18 x 8.5 wheels will fit
MPP Page Mill 365mm Big Brake Kit
$1,380.00
I seem to recall earlier in this post that the 18's would fit the other big brake kit (my memory could be wrong)
MPP.R Stoptech STR-60 368×35 Big Brake Kit
$4,175.00
MPP Page Mill 365mm Big Brake Kit
$1,380.00
I seem to recall earlier in this post that the 18's would fit the other big brake kit (my memory could be wrong)
MPP.R Stoptech STR-60 368×35 Big Brake Kit
$4,175.00
The Stoptech caliper has really good wheel clearance, the stock caliper less so. If you shoot us an email we can send you some measurements so you can check!
Tanis
Member
@TonyJag ,
Some of these tyres are not sold in Europe, so they don't have a EU tyre label. The PS all season 4 is not unfortunately.
I have the Pirelli Cinturato all season plus. Don't know how they are diffrent to the P Zero's. It has good rolling resistance, good wet grip, and low noise. I've driven them now a 1000 miles, and I am very happy how they perform and how quit they are, compared to the stock 20" PS4S. I see about 10% energy saving. That is with the lighter 18" rims, and more efficiënt tyres. Good result I think.
Some of these tyres are not sold in Europe, so they don't have a EU tyre label. The PS all season 4 is not unfortunately.
I have the Pirelli Cinturato all season plus. Don't know how they are diffrent to the P Zero's. It has good rolling resistance, good wet grip, and low noise. I've driven them now a 1000 miles, and I am very happy how they perform and how quit they are, compared to the stock 20" PS4S. I see about 10% energy saving. That is with the lighter 18" rims, and more efficiënt tyres. Good result I think.
TonyJag
Member
Thanks. You are right about some tyres not sold in EU not having EU labels. Michelin US does not know, so they gave me a Euro contact and I am waiting to hear from them, then will post a new table including yours and other inputs.
Most surprising without an EU label is the Michelin Primacy MXM4, which is the standard tire delivered on 18" rims for the Tesla Model 3 in the USA. If not MXM4, what tire comes on new Model 3 18" wheels in EU?
The 20" TO (Tesla Spec) 235/35 Zr20 92 XL tyres that came on my Model 3 performance do not have an EU label, but there is a Pilot Sport 4S TO (Tesla Spec) 235/35 ZR20 92 XL sold in EU that does (Fuel E Wet A Noise 71). Is that what came on your car?
I found the EU label for the Pirelli Cinturato all season plus, it is is Fuel C Wet B Noise 69. Here in the US, we can buy the Pirelli Cinturato P7 all season plus, I am assuming it is the same tire as yours.
Last edited:
Tanis
Member
Yes, I have the Pilot Sport 4S T0 235/35 ZR20 with that tyre label on my M3P.
The diffrence between 71 and 69db is really big.
Wet grip is the most important feature for me, and after that a good efficiency and noise. You have to find a tyre that performs well in all fields. I think the Pirelli cinturato does that.
Don't know if the P7 is any diffrent. Compare the tyre tread and images.
The diffrence between 71 and 69db is really big.
Wet grip is the most important feature for me, and after that a good efficiency and noise. You have to find a tyre that performs well in all fields. I think the Pirelli cinturato does that.
Don't know if the P7 is any diffrent. Compare the tyre tread and images.
Just ordered some 18 x 9.5 In Gunmetal as my track wheels. Super excited!
TonyJag
Member
CONTINUED: Quantitative Rolling Resistance of 18” Tires for Tesla Model 3.
BACKGROUND
Highlights of post #345:The search for a tire to mount on new 18"x8.5" MW03 wheels continues. As mentioned in Post #324,the on-line tire comparisons are good, but don't include rolling resistance (RR) effects. I contacted both Michelin and Pirelli, but neither offer meaningful quantitative RR data for comparison, even among their own tires, e,g, Michelin said they are all “9”.
This lack of data makes it a challenge for us to include rolling resistance in our tire comparisons. But there are bits and pieces of quantitative reports scattered throughout the forums and some tire stories, papers, and comparisons. in order to collect these bits in one place that can be useful to all, I made an Excel spreadsheet that includes all of the RR reports I could find on the candidate tires. Post #345 includes a picture and describes the initial spreadsheet, which is updated below.
Highlights of post #362: Thanks and request for more inputs.
Highlights of post #369: Discussion about EU labels, which include “Fuel Efficiency Class”, but only appear on tires sold in EU.
UPDATE OVERVIEW
Quite a bit of info has been added to the spreadsheet, with details discussed later, but first, pictured below is the bottom line regarding only the effect of RR, which takes into account all of your inputs and others. I hope you will find it useful for including RR impact in your tire selection, answering the question: How much efficiency will I lose for each candidate tire?
Here are a few conclusions, most regarding RR:
1. The two Tesla Model 3 OEM tires are the best (18” MXM4) and the worst (20” PS4S), with other tires forming a spectrum in between.
2. The Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 was excluded because no RR data could be found, likely because it is too new. It is likely similar to the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ that it replaces.
3. The MXM4 seems to have achieved it’s great RR by compromising many other characteristics. It is also very expensive and begins life with only 8/32” tread depth.
4. I already have the stock 20” PS4S for summer, so my candidates are narrowed down to Quatrac 5 and Cross Climate+, which both have the 3 peak snow symbol to help deal with New England winters.
5. The non-OEM tires considered here do not have acoustic foam sound deadening, but from what I have read, that makes little real difference in noise and complicates tire repair.
6. Michelin just announced a new Cross Climate2 tire, but it won’t be available in 235/45R18 98XL until winter is over. Its touted features so far do not include RR, so it is likely similar to the Cross Climate+ in that respect.
UPDATE Details
Additions to the spreadsheet (pictured below) are indicated by red cells at the left of each new row or above each new column. Included now are more reports (Thank You!) and information from the following awesome spreadsheet:
VERSION 2: Comparison of best Model 3 compatible tires (18", 19", 20") : teslamotors
It was put together and last updated September, 2019 by IMGUR and has been widely referenced. It was not feasible to include all of its information in our RR-focused spreadsheet, but the FINAL rating for most of the tires now under consideration was captured, each with IMGUR’s color code, in a new column under Key Characteristics. IMGUR’s spreadsheet included EU Label information for those tires which have it, but it is not clear whether any RR data was included in the FINAL rating. You may still find IMGUR’s spreadsheet useful for comparing tires, except for the newest.
Our latest and likely FINAL spreadsheet:
Also new are 3 columns of EU Label information for those tires which have it, mainly from EU tyre stores, as listed. The EU Fuel Efficiency Class (A-E) served as another input for RR estimates. Using curves from DOT HS 811 154, NHTSA Tire Fuel Efficiency…., I derived a factor of 0.1133 to convert those RRC numbers to relative WH/mile fuel efficiency for consistency with other reports, as show in the table below.
Then, to quantify the Consumer Reports ratings, I assigned each to a class as shown in the rightmost column. I wrote to CR about this and they thanked me extensively, but neither confirmed nor denied whether this mapping is valid and did not reveal their measurement thresholds. But I went ahead with it here because it seems rational. Someday, perhaps there will be a world-wide standard for quantitative RR effects on efficiency.
New reports of each tire relative to MXM4, assumed to be UE RR Class A, were included in the averages. Continuing on this quantification thrust, a new column of the spreadsheet second from right lists “Secondary” reports in small font. These are derived from indirect reports relative to MXM4 via a different tire. For example, a report of the PS4S being 10% worse than the Cinturato, was adjusted by the initial MXM4-to-Cinturato average of -3.6. The resulting secondary value is then included as a new MXM4 to PS4S input. The resulting final average for each tire to MXM4 is listed in bigger Bold Font. The resulting ranks are finally listed in the last column.
Using this secondary approach allowed us to make use of all of the data collected. It didn’t really change the results very much, but helped to improve accuracy and break ties. It is complex, so i drew a diagram to show how this secondary scheme works. I can scan and post it if anyone is interested.
Thanks again to all who contributed. Questions and comments are welcome, but I don’t plan to revise this work any further. I have what is needed to decide on new tires, so I can order them next week end when we have a sales tax holiday in MA and some of these tires are on sale. Hopefully, you can also make use of these results, taking your own location and requirements into account. Good luck.
BACKGROUND
Highlights of post #345:The search for a tire to mount on new 18"x8.5" MW03 wheels continues. As mentioned in Post #324,the on-line tire comparisons are good, but don't include rolling resistance (RR) effects. I contacted both Michelin and Pirelli, but neither offer meaningful quantitative RR data for comparison, even among their own tires, e,g, Michelin said they are all “9”.
This lack of data makes it a challenge for us to include rolling resistance in our tire comparisons. But there are bits and pieces of quantitative reports scattered throughout the forums and some tire stories, papers, and comparisons. in order to collect these bits in one place that can be useful to all, I made an Excel spreadsheet that includes all of the RR reports I could find on the candidate tires. Post #345 includes a picture and describes the initial spreadsheet, which is updated below.
Highlights of post #362: Thanks and request for more inputs.
Highlights of post #369: Discussion about EU labels, which include “Fuel Efficiency Class”, but only appear on tires sold in EU.
UPDATE OVERVIEW
Quite a bit of info has been added to the spreadsheet, with details discussed later, but first, pictured below is the bottom line regarding only the effect of RR, which takes into account all of your inputs and others. I hope you will find it useful for including RR impact in your tire selection, answering the question: How much efficiency will I lose for each candidate tire?
Here are a few conclusions, most regarding RR:
1. The two Tesla Model 3 OEM tires are the best (18” MXM4) and the worst (20” PS4S), with other tires forming a spectrum in between.
2. The Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 was excluded because no RR data could be found, likely because it is too new. It is likely similar to the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ that it replaces.
3. The MXM4 seems to have achieved it’s great RR by compromising many other characteristics. It is also very expensive and begins life with only 8/32” tread depth.
4. I already have the stock 20” PS4S for summer, so my candidates are narrowed down to Quatrac 5 and Cross Climate+, which both have the 3 peak snow symbol to help deal with New England winters.
5. The non-OEM tires considered here do not have acoustic foam sound deadening, but from what I have read, that makes little real difference in noise and complicates tire repair.
6. Michelin just announced a new Cross Climate2 tire, but it won’t be available in 235/45R18 98XL until winter is over. Its touted features so far do not include RR, so it is likely similar to the Cross Climate+ in that respect.
UPDATE Details
Additions to the spreadsheet (pictured below) are indicated by red cells at the left of each new row or above each new column. Included now are more reports (Thank You!) and information from the following awesome spreadsheet:
VERSION 2: Comparison of best Model 3 compatible tires (18", 19", 20") : teslamotors
It was put together and last updated September, 2019 by IMGUR and has been widely referenced. It was not feasible to include all of its information in our RR-focused spreadsheet, but the FINAL rating for most of the tires now under consideration was captured, each with IMGUR’s color code, in a new column under Key Characteristics. IMGUR’s spreadsheet included EU Label information for those tires which have it, but it is not clear whether any RR data was included in the FINAL rating. You may still find IMGUR’s spreadsheet useful for comparing tires, except for the newest.
Our latest and likely FINAL spreadsheet:
Also new are 3 columns of EU Label information for those tires which have it, mainly from EU tyre stores, as listed. The EU Fuel Efficiency Class (A-E) served as another input for RR estimates. Using curves from DOT HS 811 154, NHTSA Tire Fuel Efficiency…., I derived a factor of 0.1133 to convert those RRC numbers to relative WH/mile fuel efficiency for consistency with other reports, as show in the table below.
Then, to quantify the Consumer Reports ratings, I assigned each to a class as shown in the rightmost column. I wrote to CR about this and they thanked me extensively, but neither confirmed nor denied whether this mapping is valid and did not reveal their measurement thresholds. But I went ahead with it here because it seems rational. Someday, perhaps there will be a world-wide standard for quantitative RR effects on efficiency.
New reports of each tire relative to MXM4, assumed to be UE RR Class A, were included in the averages. Continuing on this quantification thrust, a new column of the spreadsheet second from right lists “Secondary” reports in small font. These are derived from indirect reports relative to MXM4 via a different tire. For example, a report of the PS4S being 10% worse than the Cinturato, was adjusted by the initial MXM4-to-Cinturato average of -3.6. The resulting secondary value is then included as a new MXM4 to PS4S input. The resulting final average for each tire to MXM4 is listed in bigger Bold Font. The resulting ranks are finally listed in the last column.
Using this secondary approach allowed us to make use of all of the data collected. It didn’t really change the results very much, but helped to improve accuracy and break ties. It is complex, so i drew a diagram to show how this secondary scheme works. I can scan and post it if anyone is interested.
Thanks again to all who contributed. Questions and comments are welcome, but I don’t plan to revise this work any further. I have what is needed to decide on new tires, so I can order them next week end when we have a sales tax holiday in MA and some of these tires are on sale. Hopefully, you can also make use of these results, taking your own location and requirements into account. Good luck.
Last edited:
Clivew
Member
In the UK, Tesla supply the AWD and SR model 3 with Tesla specific Michelin PS4 tyres in 235/45/18. Having used PS4 and PS4S tyres, the PS4 are slightly better for efficiency, and are approx 95% in all round ability compared to PS4S, the PS4S giving superior wet grip and better heat management on track.
Zcd1
Active Member
While I appreciate the extensive effort that was expended in order to put together this report, I do wonder whether a difference of for instance ~10 miles (~3%) of range would actually materially affect somebody’s tire buying decision…?
I know it wouldn’t mine...other factors (handling, ride quality, tread life, noise) are more important to me...
Even a 10% difference (PS4S) vs. the baseline only means an extra 5 minutes at a Supercharger or an extra hour of overnight charging at home.
Do people regularly push the range of their cars that much?? I don’t. (shrug)
I know it wouldn’t mine...other factors (handling, ride quality, tread life, noise) are more important to me...
Even a 10% difference (PS4S) vs. the baseline only means an extra 5 minutes at a Supercharger or an extra hour of overnight charging at home.
Do people regularly push the range of their cars that much?? I don’t. (shrug)
TonyJag
Member
Here you go. My 8.5" by 18" MW03 are not mounted yet because I don't really need them now and have focused on selecting the best tire.
TonyJag
Member
So they don't use the MXM4 at all? That certainly explains why there is no EU label for MXM4. There is for the PS4S.
TonyJag
Member
If you use the MW center caps, is it possible to remove them without removing the wheel from the car?
Clivew
Member
The MXM4 doesn’t exist in the UK market, it’s called the Primacy 4, and there isn’t a Tesla specific Primacy available. The SR and LR AWD come with the 18” TO PS4 and the performance with the 20” TO PS4S
- Status
Similar threads
