Calisnow has it right. Why continue to make goofy-looking electric cars? If it's possible not to, which it is, why do they keep it up? They are either clueless or trying to fail.
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xmetal
Member
This has truly mystified me as well. I've been a car nut for 30+ years and it makes no sense that these eco-minded cars have to look so damn stupid. It doesn't cost more or less to design an attractive shape. I own a Leaf, and it looks cool from about 1 specific and very tiny angle, but I leased it purely as a stopgap until the Model 3 was available and because leasing the car costs less than filling my 2 previous cars with gas each month.
While these other makers will come out with EVs (quite possibly before the Model 3 arrives) they can't seem to compete on the branding and desirability front.
Thanks to Ford, we'll have to accept a s3xy one instead.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Completely agreed. Unfortunately it takes a visionary leader and shareholders that can see past the next quarter - two things very lacking in our current business environment.
Trev Page
Member
To echo what I think some others have said, I think they are discussing it behind closed doors but that most of the large auto companies are still to short sighted and arrogant to realize that the writing is on the wall.
To be fair, they have caught on a bit in the past year or two and have begun investing in the technology but if I were a large shareholder of a large ICE manufacturer, i'd be very angry that it took leadership so long to see the coming change and I think the likes of GM, Ford etc will be playing catch-up for many, many years... and I'm going to watch and laugh at them all the way.
To be fair, they have caught on a bit in the past year or two and have begun investing in the technology but if I were a large shareholder of a large ICE manufacturer, i'd be very angry that it took leadership so long to see the coming change and I think the likes of GM, Ford etc will be playing catch-up for many, many years... and I'm going to watch and laugh at them all the way.
Trev Page
Member
BMW is going to have ulcers in a couple of years. Any car company would kill to have Teslas customer base loyalty let alone pre orders like today and the next two years. This is off the charts.
hey mary barra,
in 1985, my dad took our family savings to a local oldsmobile dealer to buy a cutlass ciera from the lot. the salesman insisted on a protection package and other fees hidden in the sales contract. after hours of futile negotiation, my dad got up, and marched us down the street to buy a 1985 toyota camry instead.
now 18 cars (4 teslas) and decades later, we're buying american again--just not gm.
in 1985, my dad took our family savings to a local oldsmobile dealer to buy a cutlass ciera from the lot. the salesman insisted on a protection package and other fees hidden in the sales contract. after hours of futile negotiation, my dad got up, and marched us down the street to buy a 1985 toyota camry instead.
now 18 cars (4 teslas) and decades later, we're buying american again--just not gm.
Krugerrand
Meow
To give credit where it's due, BMW and Audi both have been in the press recently admitting that they already have ulcers - publicly stating that they know they have to change. BMW's CEO has made comments that he doesn't want to end up being the Foxconn to Silicon Valley - and that he knows his company is behind in artificial intelligence and machine learning. He even said Germany as a country has a problem not turning out enough computer talent.
Audi's EV chief publicly blasted his whole country's industry a few weeks ago, admitted that German EV's so far suck, said they need their own Supercharger infrastructure and said "I hate to admit it but Tesla did everything right."
The American companies don't seem to want to be as frank as the Germans are willing to.
We all want more EVs, but there are two main reasons to rip on Chevy and the Bolt. First, for what you are getting, the Bolt would only be worth buying if it was priced at $20,000, not $40,000. It is an ugly car with a cheap interior, slow charging, and no ability to drive long distances because there is no supercharging network. Second, Chevy is part of the big reason you can't buy a Tesla from a store in many states. They are a dishonest company. And then they have the nerve to say that a reason you should buy the Bolt is because Tesla doesn't have stores in every state (which is their fault)! I will try to never buy a Chevy of any kind again on a matter of principle.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
I imagine she's thinking that they should have committed to funding charging infrastructure, and that it would be nice not to be saddled with a dealership model that both relies on their ICE vehicles for the majority of their profit, and requires them to fund lobbying efforts to keep them in business.
Honestly GM is in a much better position with the Bolt than Ford, DaimlerChrysler, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, VW, et al.
I think Mary Barra is thinking "Thank goodness we built an all-electric with a long range; we're just in time to avoid being driven out of business".
As calisnow noted, BMW and Audi are openly admitting how far behind they are. That's the first step. Unfortunately for them, it means it'll be three years before they're making their first serious attempt to compete. They're laaaate...
Yes, which means that GM will have to up its game. But at least they have the platform to work with now. They can fix the remaining design problems with the Bolt more quickly than Nissan can fix the design problems with the Leaf... and way more quickly than any of the companies with NO long-range BEV can develop ANYTHING.
There's room for multiple electric cars in the market. Honestly I think demand is so high that Bolt won't cut into Model 3 sales at all. Elon took the high road and congratulated them for making a long-range, all-electric car.
My issue with GM is the ads for the VOLT.
First they show a Leaf across from a Volt. The guy in all their ads says, "range issues", as it is all electric. Not with the Volt.
Hey wait, aren't you guys bringing out an all electric car called the BOLT!?
Now they show a Prius across from the Volt. Now that's only a hybrid. Hey wait, aren't you guys selling a hybrid Malibu or something?
Someone better tell the ad agency to look at the GM line up before they put down other cars.
Your comment about charging infrastructure is true.
Our local Nissan and Mitsu dealer let anyone charge up. And they are on all the time and not blocked.
Chevy might as well turn off the juice to them. Some have signs saying Volt only.
How are you going to sell EV's if you are telling folks we don't want you unless it is our car. Even then, you can't get near them on weekends, Volt or not.
First they show a Leaf across from a Volt. The guy in all their ads says, "range issues", as it is all electric. Not with the Volt.
Hey wait, aren't you guys bringing out an all electric car called the BOLT!?
Now they show a Prius across from the Volt. Now that's only a hybrid. Hey wait, aren't you guys selling a hybrid Malibu or something?
Someone better tell the ad agency to look at the GM line up before they put down other cars.
Your comment about charging infrastructure is true.
Our local Nissan and Mitsu dealer let anyone charge up. And they are on all the time and not blocked.
Chevy might as well turn off the juice to them. Some have signs saying Volt only.
How are you going to sell EV's if you are telling folks we don't want you unless it is our car. Even then, you can't get near them on weekends, Volt or not.
Right you are. GM is not the worst of it, heck they figured out a way to get a mass market 200 mile range EV to market faster than Elon. So, it ain't pretty. So they don't have lines out the door. They are killing Ford by comparison. Toyota looks frozen in mud as does Honda. Nissan is trying but, slow too.
The people who are really going to hate the Tesla are the Euro mid lux germans. Merc BMW Audi. If Tesla simply keeps 100k potential low end lux cars out of the market for the next 2 years. That's huge. I'd be curious to have a poll of Tesla buyers and see what they are not buying as they wait. That's such an important point in all this.
Went to Audi this week to check out the A3 E-Tron.
As usual for these ICE dealers, when I mentioned the J1772 connector he didn't know what I was talking about.
He then admitted, I most likely knew more about the car than he did. Ya think!
This one was sold by him and I suspect he knew more than this salesman.
I like the car but with such a short electric range, they are way behind the rest. Heck, the Chrysler Pacifica in EV trim will go at least twice as far. I don't plan to buy one, just saying.
I also like how they mention the greatest distance in EV mode the car can do. But that is one model. The one he sold was top of the line with far less range.
These ICE dealers need to steal a few Tesla sales people that know this stuff and can talk to the customers.
As usual for these ICE dealers, when I mentioned the J1772 connector he didn't know what I was talking about.
He then admitted, I most likely knew more about the car than he did. Ya think!
This one was sold by him and I suspect he knew more than this salesman.
I like the car but with such a short electric range, they are way behind the rest. Heck, the Chrysler Pacifica in EV trim will go at least twice as far. I don't plan to buy one, just saying.
I also like how they mention the greatest distance in EV mode the car can do. But that is one model. The one he sold was top of the line with far less range.
These ICE dealers need to steal a few Tesla sales people that know this stuff and can talk to the customers.
Tina C
Member
Past GM cars I've owned were crap. Fit & finish problems on the interior, uncomfortable, & major mechanical repairs. Unimpressed with any that were rental cars too. EV or not I wouldn't ever buy another GM car. Their dirty pool with trying to block Tesla just adds to it.
I do honestly hope that there will be plenty of choice in the future with electric cars. Right now, Tesla is the only one that is getting it right. The other manufacturers need to invest in the charging infrastructure and improve their versions of an EV beyond a local commuter car econo box (but charging mid level prices). People don't want to buy cars that only serve part of their needs.
I do honestly hope that there will be plenty of choice in the future with electric cars. Right now, Tesla is the only one that is getting it right. The other manufacturers need to invest in the charging infrastructure and improve their versions of an EV beyond a local commuter car econo box (but charging mid level prices). People don't want to buy cars that only serve part of their needs.
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