Maryland - Cost of Tesla Wall Charger or NEMA 14-50?

[COlsen1]

I'll put in my $0.02 in here from an electrician point of view. Permit will be required with this work in any county in MD (if not any place in the country that has an AHJ) that I've ever worked in. A lot of the times electricians won't worry about a permit with such a small job such as adding a 14-50 under the existing panel. If I was getting work done I would always ask if there is a permit being pulled and what the price is for that. There have been a few counties/jurisdictions that a permit can be equal to or more expensive than the labor + materials so some homeowners will opt to not pull the permit. In order to get the MD EVSE rebate the job must be permitted just as an FYI.

If getting a quote I'd highly recommend asking any electrician for the price for a 14-50 receptacle or a "range plug" installed. There are plenty of electricians that hear Tesla and assume the homeowner has lots of $$ and some will charge a premium.

$610 Olney/MoCo install sounds about right with permit.
The $500 minimum does not surprise me either. Not what I'd do but I can understand the reasoning.

Good luck with the search. Go with your gut feeling not just the cheapest bid. Sometimes bids come in cheap for a reason.

 

[eprosenx]

@katiedaddy, HoCo requires a GFCI breaker for EV charging to pass permit inspection. We had our electrical work done in July (new breaker in finished basement) and long run into the garage where NEMA 14-50 was installed. The electrician mentioned there was a potential for breaker tripping due to dual GFCI (the UMC has one built in). In October after a software upgrade to v9 we started having the breaker trip randomly. I recently resorted to having the GFCI breaker replaced with non-GFCI and charging has returned to a worry-free event.

2017 NEC Article 625 requires a GFCI on any EV charging receptacle. It is not just a local ordinance but many jurisdictions don’t enforce it as many inspectors don’t know it exists. (as mentioned above, it is not required for hard wired units like a Tesla Wall Connector)

GFCI breakers or receptacles upstream of a UMC have been known in some cases to cause issues. This is unfortunate as there are legitimate safety concerns that those GFCI units address. Also, it seems kind of random whether you will have an issue, and there don’t seem to be any guaranteed solutions to fix it. Some have reported success with installing different brand 120v GFCI receptacles. 240v circuits are harder as typically there is only one approved GFCI breaker for a given panel.

My personal feeling though is that if the receptacle is not somewhere it would ever come in contact with water or that a child could shove something in the receptacle, then the GFCI requirement is a bit overboard. The UMC has one built in to protect everything downstream... And there a bajillion RV receptacles out there today without GFCI. If they start requiring GFCI for RV’s I could get behind the EV requirement, but only applying it to EV receptacles seems punative.

Note that the GFCI breaker is generally over $100 more than a non GFCI one. If you factor this in plus buying a second UMC plus the cost for a good quality 14-50 receptacle then the Wall Conector is close to price parity. That is why I am such a fan of the Wall Connector.

Also, no GFCI issues with a Wall Connector since it won’t have to be on a GFCI circuit.

 

[Rocky_H]

For ultimate convenience and safety, if you chose UMC for home Charging you should permanently allocate the UMC for the home and purchase a 2nd that stays with the car. You don’t want to remove the UMC from the house on a daily basis, you want topping off daily to be quick, like 10 seconds. Nor risk not having the UMC with you in a pinch with the car because you got tired of packing it up daily and forgot it or never expected you’d need it.

So add $300 to the total if you go with 14-50.

Most owners disagree, and I'll explain why.
The mobile charge cable is only used for plugging into outlets. These kinds of charging places do not use the mobile connector:
1. Superchargers
2. J1772 public charging stations
3. Destination chargers (which are Tesla wall connectors)
4. CHAdeMO and CCS stations (but not relevant since the Model 3 can't use them)

So, there are two conditions that have to both be satisfied to create the need to have the mobile connector in the car daily.
1. You use up the full 200+ mile range of your car in that one day
and
2. You are not near any of those charging points mentioned above: Supercharger, J1772, HPWC

Then, you might have to resort to begging someone to use an outlet. Is that seriously likely to happen in your lifetime? I would predict not if you live in some reasonably populated area. So no, you don't need to unplug and pack up the UMC every day. Leave it plugged in and hanging on a hook on the wall in the garage and only maybe bring it with you when you are heading out of town on a long trip.

 

[mswlogo]

Most owners disagree, and I'll explain why.
The mobile charge cable is only used for plugging into outlets. These kinds of charging places do not use the mobile connector:
1. Superchargers
2. J1772 public charging stations
3. Destination chargers (which are Tesla wall connectors)
4. CHAdeMO and CCS stations (but not relevant since the Model 3 can't use them)

So, there are two conditions that have to both be satisfied to create the need to have the mobile connector in the car daily.
1. You use up the full 200+ mile range of your car in that one day
and
2. You are not near any of those charging points mentioned above: Supercharger, J1772, HPWC

Then, you might have to resort to begging someone to use an outlet. Is that seriously likely to happen in your lifetime? I would predict not if you live in some reasonably populated area. So no, you don't need to unplug and pack up the UMC every day. Leave it plugged in and hanging on a hook on the wall in the garage and only maybe bring it with you when you are heading out of town on a long trip.

You make a valid point. But...

When I visit granda-ma, cousins, friends etc. I'd like to have it with me. There is like 4 super chargers in all of NH.
I see so many issues with folks using "Destination" chargers. Not available, out of order, busy, slow, restricted use, time limits, getting unplugged etc. to be honest I avoid them.
SuperChargers can be busy too. Worried what peak Summer activity will look like on a couple critical SC I use up in NH (namely Hookset NH).
If destination chargers work out in a pinch great, I want a backup with me. Lot's of camps in NH.
Like you said CHAdeMO is not an option yet.

If I never use the UMC in the car, that's fine by me. I have used it a few times at my camp, but I have since installed a Wall Connector there. I have less range anxiety with it always in the car.

 

[eprosenx]

Most owners disagree, and I'll explain why.
The mobile charge cable is only used for plugging into outlets. These kinds of charging places do not use the mobile connector:
1. Superchargers
2. J1772 public charging stations
3. Destination chargers (which are Tesla wall connectors)
4. CHAdeMO and CCS stations (but not relevant since the Model 3 can't use them)

So, there are two conditions that have to both be satisfied to create the need to have the mobile connector in the car daily.
1. You use up the full 200+ mile range of your car in that one day
and
2. You are not near any of those charging points mentioned above: Supercharger, J1772, HPWC

Then, you might have to resort to begging someone to use an outlet. Is that seriously likely to happen in your lifetime? I would predict not if you live in some reasonably populated area. So no, you don't need to unplug and pack up the UMC every day. Leave it plugged in and hanging on a hook on the wall in the garage and only maybe bring it with you when you are heading out of town on a long trip.

I totally agree with all of this, though I personally like having the UMC in my car at all times just in case of emergency (like think natural disaster, etc). I also regularly travel to places where I stay overnight and the most convenient (time efficient) charging solution is to plug in to a wall outlet of some kind. I would not want to forget my UMC accidentally, so I am willing to spend the money to have one in my car at all times.

So various folks will have different sensitivity to cost and risk. It is always a personal choice.

But yes, I will echo Rocky’s thoughts. I have never randomly needed my UMC in an emergency. Every time I have used it I had planned ahead of time to use it so I could have brought it with me. In my daily usage I never remotely come close to being concerned about battery life.

 

[Rocky_H]

So various folks will have different sensitivity to cost and risk. It is always a personal choice.

Yes, some people are ultra cautious, but phrasing it as a need and something that must be done gives a wrong impression to new owners seeking to learn about it. That's why it would be more appropriate to say something like, "You might want to..." or "You should consider...".

 

[woodguyatl]

Keep in mind, the 14-50 outlet can only pull 32A max on a Model 3. Where as the Wall Connector can pull 40A.

The M3 can draw 48 amps on a wall connector.

 

[mswlogo]

The M3 can draw 48 amps on a wall connector.

Good catch. But I did say 14-50 (e.g. 50 Amp Circuit). But your right, it can handle a 60A circuit as well and pull 48A.

 

[oscarfish]

Anne Arundel County resident here - bought a Signature wall charger off eBay for $600 last Fall for Model 3 mk1. Paid my electrician $900 (labor & permit) for installation on the interior wall of my garage. Remember the Maryland EVSE rebate covers 40% of hardware and labor - not ten days after sending in the paperwork I got a check from the state treasurer. MEA is awesome.

We picked up our second 3 tonight so the charger will see plenty of duty.

 

[TeflonDon]

So I need a MD permit to install Tesla wall charger? I just got quoted $2300.

 

[Rocky_H]

So I need a MD permit to install Tesla wall charger? I just got quoted $2300.

Not specifically for the wall connector, but if you are adding a new circuit. Most cities and states do require permits for that. My state of Idaho is pretty independent in the "homesteading" mindset, so they don't actually require it if it's a homeowner working on their own house, but that's pretty rare for most states.

 

[TeflonDon]

Not specifically for the wall connector, but if you are adding a new circuit. Most cities and states do require permits for that. My state of Idaho is pretty independent in the "homesteading" mindset, so they don't actually require it if it's a homeowner working on their own house, but that's pretty rare for most states.

Thanks for that!

I feel like this 2300 estimate is too high. The charge site is 65ft from the panel. But it’s an easy wire run from it.

 

[3sr+buyer]

So I need a MD permit to install Tesla wall charger? I just got quoted $2300.

You can check your county's web site to find out when an electrical permit is needed. But if any wiring is added or modified, you should expect the answer to be yes.

 

[Rocky_H]

I feel like this 2300 estimate is too high. The charge site is 65ft from the panel. But it’s an easy wire run from it.

That does sound really high, but also that was your first comment. I haven't seen any detail about how you asked or what you asked for. Many people come onto this forum, and they get outrageous quotes because they are not requesting in the right way.

They start off with, "I need ____" and then get terrible quotes, because that need they are demanding is maybe such a large circuit that it requires big upgrades to their service or main panel. Don't start with that.

You should start with:
"Do a load calculation and let me know how big a circuit can be added in my existing electrical service."

And this gets into the second problem. There is this widespread myth that the Tesla wall connector MUST have a 60A circuit. It doesn't! If you get a load calculation, and you can only fit in a 30 or 40A circuit, that's fine! And that might be a lot cheaper than $2300.

 

[davewill]

Also, you do need to get multiple quotes. We've seen lots of cases where someone gets quotes that are miles apart from each other. Sometimes the low-ball quotes are cutting corners (like skipping permits, overloading panels, or wrong wire), and sometimes the expensive ones are simply trying to take advantage of people's ignorance. Get multiple quotes, make sure you understand EXACTLY what work is included in the quote. Ask questions and take notes.

If things seem wrong or confusing, then come back here, lay out what they said they would do. Sometimes we can suggest a cheaper alternative, as @Rocky_H points out.

 

[TeflonDon]

That does sound really high, but also that was your first comment. I haven't seen any detail about how you asked or what you asked for. Many people come onto this forum, and they get outrageous quotes because they are not requesting in the right way.

They start off with, "I need ____" and then get terrible quotes, because that need they are demanding is maybe such a large circuit that it requires big upgrades to their service or main panel. Don't start with that.

You should start with:
"Do a load calculation and let me know how big a circuit can be added in my existing electrical service."

And this gets into the second problem. There is this widespread myth that the Tesla wall connector MUST have a 60A circuit. It doesn't! If you get a load calculation, and you can only fit in a 30 or 40A circuit, that's fine! And that might be a lot cheaper than $2300.

Thanks man, still learning the ropes of this community. Apologize if my approach raised any eyebrows.

 

[Rocky_H]

Thanks man, still learning the ropes of this community. Apologize if my approach raised any eyebrows.

Oh, no problems there. It's just that saying the amount without any idea of what it's for doesn't really give us much idea of whether it's kind of close or really out of line.

and sometimes the expensive ones are simply trying to take advantage of people's ignorance.

And high isn't always because of this reason. Many people in many trades manage their workload with this method. If they are really busy and aren't trying to take on more jobs, they will intentionally give really high bids. It's called "pricing yourself out of the market". It's a win/win for the tradesperson. They are already too busy, so either you are shocked at the high quote and go elsewhere to someone who has more time who will bid lower, or you say yes, and it's like, "Damn! Well if they're going to accept my high quote, then it WILL be worth my time to schedule it."

 

[TeflonDon]

Ah, yes. Makes sense. Just got another quote for $1400 with permit.

 

[davewill]

Oh, no problems there. It's just that saying the amount without any idea of what it's for doesn't really give us much idea of whether it's kind of close or really out of line.


And high isn't always because of this reason. Many people in many trades manage their workload with this method. If they are really busy and aren't trying to take on more jobs, they will intentionally give really high bids. It's called "pricing yourself out of the market". It's a win/win for the tradesperson. They are already too busy, so either you are shocked at the high quote and go elsewhere to someone who has more time who will bid lower, or you say yes, and it's like, "Damn! Well if they're going to accept my high quote, then it WILL be worth my time to schedule it."

I don't really see any difference in that over just taking advantage of people. If they don't have time, they should just say so, not give a high quote hoping to find a sucker.

 

[Rocky_H]

I don't really see any difference in that over just taking advantage of people. If they don't have time, they should just say so, not give a high quote hoping to find a sucker.

Huh? Of course it's different. Some customers just want it done quickly and simply and don't care if the price is higher so they don't have to spend the extra time and aggravation to go get several other bids and evaluate them to figure out getting some better deal. Pricing to manage demand is in every market and industry.