MASTER THREAD: 2019.36.2.1 - new HOLD mode and other features

[wcorey]

I have not done any scientific calculations of my range after 2.1

I was just referring to the progress meter. I haven't done any calculations on range. It appears I am, over the last year, avg 250 watts/mile. That for a AWD LR. I'd be interested in what your avg is, since, presumably, you got it. Ind has similar weather to the East Coast, right?

 

[diplomat33]

I was just referring to the progress meter. I haven't done any calculations on range. It appears I am, over the last year, avg 250 watts/mile. That for a AWD LR. I'd be interested in what your avg is, since, presumably, you got it. Ind has similar weather to the East Coast, right?

I can check my meter and let you know. Although we got snow and temps in the 10s last week.

 

[wcorey]

Although we got snow and temps in the 10s last week.

Last week we had lows in the mid teens. No single digits yet though. You live anywhere near Matt of TechForum? I think he's upstate Ind.

 

[diplomat33]

Last week we had lows in the mid teens. No single digits yet though. You live anywhere near Matt of TechForum? I think he's upstate Ind.

No I am closer to Indianapolis.

 

[Daniel in SD]

By that logic the car would have unlimited range as it's not drawing any power. The progress meter is projected range. Its esp frustrating when there is such a lack of knowledge.

Yes it would if you could somehow move without drawing power. Say that moving the car 1 mile at 60mph takes ~200Wh of energy from the battery, then how would increasing the maximum power of the motor change that? By your logic I could put a block of wood under the accelerator pedal to limit my cars power and increase my range.

 

[Occhis]

No worries, I got that, I mean to be teasing a bit.

Just a thought though - I wonder if the hold is easier to get used to in the heavier X than it is in the 3. Unlike others who say they notice the regen is weaker, I feel like it’s stronger now. I find inching forward or backward is very easy using just the accelerator, the car feels heavier now.

I understand other’s experiences are different.

I understand your not trusting the computer, I was a professional pilot in another life and always kept a sharp eye on everything. I figure that moment of inattention was when something would decide to do something unexpected.

But this car is really a computer on wheels, more so than most other cars on the road now, so I figure I’m going to use it as such, otherwise I’d find an old truck with a manual shift and roll up windows. (Joke) I have to assume the systems in the car are much more robust than my iPhone or even my laptop, because you are right, if it screws up as much as my phone does, I shouldn’t be driving it at all!

That said, I try to be ready for anything. It’s already surprised me with phantom braking a few times, so I now turn off the TACC when somebody starts tailgating me, don’t trust it. I use the autosteer judiciously as well, and would never think of hanging a weight on the wheel.

In an aircraft, there are devices also called autopilots, and unless you are flying a large airliner equipped with autoland into Heathrow on a foggy morning, autopilots are considered workload reduction items, not replacements for the pilot, or the pilot’s responsibilities.

That’s how I use my car and systems anyway. Love the tech, don’t trust it completely, and love the way the car drives and feels. Also love the way it’s better now than when I bought it because of the updates. Never had that before.

Cheers!

To be honest I was a bit paranoid about HOLD after reading the reddit thread and didn’t really give it much of a chance. I am trusting but vigilant with the the systems that can cause serious problems if they malfunction. My wife thinks I trust TACC and auto steer too much.
You, though, must have nerves of steel to trust a computer to land a commercial airliner with hundreds of humans aboard. It teaches me, and I hope others here, to respect other posters’ opinions before jumping to conclusions.

And you did hit a soft spot with phantom braking, as I’ve experienced it more than I like to think about, especially when in the area of tractor trailers on the interstate. I call it FOTT, fear of tractor trailers, and it comes with no warning. Very unsettling. It happened again last night and luckily the car behind me was in the next lane.

 

[z06tim]

Love the new 1 pedal driving and the power increase. I never tested before the update but just took my dragy out earlier today to test 0-60 with the P3D. With a cold battery, cold pavement and 81% charge I still got a 3.13 and 3.15 0-60 on my only 2 attempts. Not too shabby. better conditions should be good for 2.9 as others have seen that time already.

 

[RobDickinson]

One pedal driving/hold mode is great.

Except when reversing down a steep drive.. then you feel like you are fighting the car.

 

[RickW]

One pedal driving/hold has been great.
A little hair raising earlier yesterday when I stopped on a 15% grade hill and another car came behind me. That was the confidence tester for me. It worked nicely.

By the way, anyone hearing a small but discernible click when the car hits "0" and the hold indicator comes on? I'm sure it's normal, but I never heard it before. It's also reassuring so that I don't have to look at the screen.

 

[wcorey]

I can check my meter and let you know. Although we got snow and temps in the 10s last week.

I am not sure I have enough information to compute this myself but I bet you do. As I said, according to my trip A and "since birth" mileage I am averaging 250 Watts/mile. What would that come out to miles/charge, figure 100% charge. LR.
Simple math says 75KW battery 250w/mile = 300 miles/charge? That seems simplistic. Although 80% of that is 240 which is what it charges to now.. Pls check my math!
I'm feeling like a big, "sorry guys" is in my future. But then doesn't that mean the progress widget was BS all along?
Also, that assumes a perfectly efficient mechanical system which doesn't happen to exist. So 300 m/charge is strictly non-mechanical. How can Tesla Range Table - Teslike.com possibly say 308 miles/charge?

 

[wcorey]

By the way, anyone hearing a small but discernible click when the car hits "0" and the hold indicator comes on? I'm sure it's normal, but I never heard it before. It's also reassuring so that I don't have to look at the screen.

I think I've heard that. Isn't it mechanically going into park? When I say I've heard that, it has nothing to do with the new feature, it's strictly Hold.

 

[Buckarooo]

Loved hold mode. Ultimately couldn't take the clicking.

Back to creep.

 

[Buckarooo]

I think I've heard that. Isn't it mechanically going into park? When I say I've heard that, it has nothing to do with the new feature, it's strictly Hold.

Sounds like it's caused by a little play between the actuator that the computer uses to control braking and the brake mechanism itself. Happens at a stop while going from 0 mph to hold, or at very low speeds when stopping in AP.

Not holding my breath that Tesla will fix it.

 

[diplomat33]

I am not sure I have enough information to compute this myself but I bet you do. As I said, according to my trip A and "since birth" mileage I am averaging 250 Watts/mile. What would that come out to miles/charge, figure 100% charge. LR.
Simple math says 75KW battery 250w/mile = 300 miles/charge? That seems simplistic. Although 80% of that is 240 which is what it charges to now.. Pls check my math!
I'm feeling like a big, "sorry guys" is in my future. But then doesn't that mean the progress widget was BS all along?

Your math is good. It means that, averaged over the entire mileage of your car, your battery is giving you 300 miles on a full charge, or 240 miles at 80%. So your driving efficiency is pretty good! My "since birth" (9000 miles) number is 270 W/mi so a bit worse than you.

 

[MentalNomad]

Could switching gears before the car is at a complete stop cause any damage? For example, if backing out of a spot, then putting the car in DRIVE while still coasting backwards.

No, because this car doesn't have transmission gears or a clutch. Forward and Reverse are the same thing; it's just a question of which way you tell the electric motor to spin.

If you have the car in Roll and you're on a steep incline, you can bring it to a stop by pressing on the accelerator lightly. You can also allow the car to roll back slowing while pressing the accelerator and see the car picking up charge from the regen.

If you are on a steep decline, you can put the car in reverse (which simply directs the motor the other way) and again use the accelerator to stop. And, if you allow it to roll forwards, you can regen. That's right, rolling forward with the car in reverse, you press the accelerator to cause regenerative braking. It's kinda fun. (Only do this safely, kids.)

Since there are no gears unmeshing/meshing, there's no danger change direction. HOWEVER, if you're flipping between Forward and Reverse to use the accelerator to to stop the car, you DO run the risk of accidentally accelerating when you intend to stop. You need to be certain that the direction change takes effect before you press the pedal! Over 5 mph, it WILL NOT switch, so if you hit the stalk thinking you've switched, you may hit the accelerator and then unintentionally accelerate. A couple times I'd hit the stalk and had to abort to the brake pedal at the last instant when I realize the car isn't switching directions and it's a bit of a panic.

My conclusion is that this “feature”, which obviously is the cause of so much controversy, with all the clicks, surges and other negative characteristics, is definitely not for me. I will reconsider if/when I read that improvements have been implemented and more positively accepted.

1. I disagree. I've tried the new driving mode, and decided it's quite excellent. There were a few situations where I needed to adjust, but they're all quite doable. Overall, I think it's a huge boon, and it became my standard mode the first time I turned it on.

2. The improvements will never be "more positively accepted." People are just being resistant to change, and this is a change. Those of us who are willing to adjust get the benefit... others, coming into it for the first time, will also get the benefit. But those who got used to the car as it was and don't cope well with change will just complain, and that won't change.

my windshield wipers turned on by themselves. It was bizarre. It wasn’t even raining today so absolutely no moisture on or near windshield.

It's not about moisture. My understanding is that it's based on what the camera sees on the glass - so all that matters is whether there's anything on the glass right in front of the camera, or else a glare hitting that spot.

I'm an early '54 model myself and have more precise control with Hold then ever before. Every time I go to reverse I try to understand why some folks say the control feels odd. So far I got nothing..........

Hey, old-timer. I think the problem is that these whipper-snappers have only driven one or two different cars in their lifetimes - and most of them like-new. They're not used to adjusting to significantly different pedal response in the accelerator, the brake, and the clutch when switching between cars. You and I have probably gone through lots of different cars... every time I get into a different car, it's like driving a whole new car. I just expect a software change to require the same adjustment in me.

If Tesla can increase power (decrease range) through software they can toggle it to favor efficiency or power. @diplomat33 does this make sense to you?

Believe it or not, I had a lot of physics. I know the difference between power and energy or, kinetic vs potential energy. I said power. I have no clue where you got energy from. What I said was in order to give us 5% more power out of the same plant, something had to give

The key here is that nothing has to get worse for the car to give us 5% more kinetic power out of the same inverters/motors. If they were able to tune the system to be more efficient, the same amount of electric power from the battery will yield more mechanical power from the motor. This is why this update gives us both more power and more range: it's based on increased efficiency.

So you don't need to hit the pedal as hard to get the same amount of pickup as before. However, if you DO hit the pedal as hard as before, don't expect to save anything. If you let up on the pedal to get the same pickup as before, you can expect a slight savings.

It'll be hard to detect, though, because it's a small difference (5%) and because the weather's getting colder (battery efficiency drops in the cold, and because our batteries are so big, that's a lot of thermal mass that gets cold after a long night - it can take quite a bit of driving in the morning before it warms up to peak efficiency.)

But doesn't chill mode already do what you are suggesting? It suppresses power and results in better range?

Close, but not quite. Chill mode re-maps pedal response so that it's easier for you, as a driver, to avoid using as much acceleration. So it's less like "supressing" power, and more like getting you to ask for less power in the first place.

But yes, chill mode makes it easier to be energy-efficient.

Having said that, I am certainly not opposed to Tesla adding an "extend range" option via OTA update.

I think a "high-efficiency" or "hypermiling" mode would be great, especially as an autopilot option. I suspect there are acceleration rates that are more energy-efficient, and deceleration rates that capture more energy. If they're not wildly out of line with regular traffic, i'd love to be able to engage those.

Except when reversing down a steep drive.. then you feel like you are fighting the car.

I know what you mean; the first time, the impulsive response is that the car is "getting stuck" instead of rolling down the hill. Normally, you'd expect to hit the brake, and to make the car "go" by letting off the brake. Instead, the car stops itself, and you make the car "go" by lightly hitting the accelerator, telling the car, "it's OK, it's OK, keep going..."

I got used to it almost immediately. In the new mode, the car knows you want to stand still when your foot is off the accelerator. Regardless how steep the incline, the car will stand still until you press the accelerator - and when you do press the accelerator lightly, it will just inch forward, rather than suddenly rushing down the hill as it would in Roll mode.

Frankly, the new mode is wonderful and much safer, I think, as long as you can stop acting as if the car is going to suddenly roll downhill. It's not.

This is so much better than learning to clutch into first gear after a red light on a steep incline, especially the first time you're allowed to drive your father-in-law's BMW, which has a ridiculously small slip zone compared to your Honda. But I digress.

By the way, anyone hearing a small but discernible click when the car hits "0" and the hold indicator comes on?

I'm fairly sure everyone has the click. For most of us, it's so quiet that we rarely notice. Some people have a louder one, or else are very sensitive to it.

I think I've heard that. Isn't it mechanically going into park?

No, it's just the electronic actuator beginning to engage the brake. You can easily feel this with a little playing:

In a safe place, on a flat area, with the car in the new mode:

1. Put your right foot on the accelerator, and your left foot UNDER the brake, lifting it slightly.
2. Press the accelerator enough to bring the car up to 2 or 3 mph, and then let go.
3. You'll feel the car slow down via electric motor control until it stops.
4. Then you'll see the (Hold) engage on the screen.
5. Then you'll hear the click.
6. Then you'll feel the brake pedal move down, so that the brakes are holding the car still instead of the motor.

The click is at the beginning of the brake pedal movement (possibly an instant before.)

 

[jebinc]

Loved hold mode. Ultimately couldn't take the clicking.

Back to creep.

Same

 

[ProphetM]

My cruise control started malfunctioning with this version.
I have standard cruise control, no AP or EAP. Since the new software update, sometimes cruise control does not engage properly. I engage it, it shows that it is engaged, but then if I release the pedal it will not hold the speed. I have seen it drop as much as 10 MPH, slowing down as if there is no cruise control set. After a few seconds it seems to realize it should be on cruise control and returns to the speed that I set.

This is not dependent on the speed limit of the road, or the speed I am setting, or the lighting conditions, or the location. And it doesn't malfunction every time. But it has happened 6-8 times already, beginning immediately after I got the new software. It had never done this, ever, before that. I've done the in-car bug report 3-4 times so far, hoping they fix this ASAP.

 

[ebmcs03]

So why no cone recognition for HW 2.5? It really can’t render cones or it’s just tesla software discriminating those who didn’t buy FSD? Not that I care about cones. Just like to know why Tesla is picking cones as the diverging point and not stop sign recognition.

 

[diamond.g]

So why no cone recognition for HW 2.5? It really can’t render cones or it’s just tesla software discriminating those who didn’t buy FSD? Not that I care about cones. Just like to know why Tesla is picking cones as the diverging point and not stop sign recognition.

@verygreen says it is because the MCU is expecting the signal in a format only HW3 sends at this time.

 

[Mojito]

On this version the auto pilot is squirmy had to take over a spot which normally it has no issues with today. After an intersection never swerved to the right to the road and was heading straight for the divider.