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2021 Model 3 and differences from 2020

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I would schedule it to warm before the drive. 55 is somewhat cold and def not enough for fast supercharging. Charging will get the battery to about 22C and then while driving to supercharging will heat it up to about 30C+

Well I’m not going to supercharge until I’m on my way back home, not on the way out...so it should be plenty warm from highway driving I assume? It’s 155 miles each way from where I am in Portland to Sisters, so hopefully it has the range to make it all the way back (in which case I’ll stop in Tigard or Beaverton just so I can check the supercharging rate for the first time. Or maybe even one of the Vancouver chargers if I somehow have a bunch of range left, but I’m not hopeful I’ll make it quite that far.)

The weather report says it’ll be around 50F on Sunday, so I’m hopeful that’s warm enough to make the complete round trip.
 
out...so it should be plenty warm from highway driving I assume? It’s 155 miles each way from where I am in Portland to Sisters
No, you can't get the car "plenty warm" while driving, not in the US at least. If you drive at 70mph you might be able to keep the battery at about 25C-30C while driving, but if you stop it will cool down very fast.
310 miles at what speed? Anything above constant 65mph will probably not cut it. I guess if you drive at 60 you might do the 310 miles with 1% or so left. Provided you got the Panasonic and not LG battery
 
Hey guys, for those who upgraded to a 2021 model 3 from an older model 3 version, can you answer some (or all) of my questions below, please? Thank you.
1. How quieter is the 2021 version (with double-pane windows) inside the cabin compared to 2020 and earlier models?
2. Does the new heat pump make the car more efficient in winter, by heating up the batteries? Or is it just for more efficient cabin heating? Not clear from what I've read.
3. Is the 353 new range real, or what exactly changed? Couldn't tell by the myriad of confusing comments on that. And talking about range, does anybody know how much less range you get if you travel at 85 mph (TX)?

That's it for now. Thank you.
JC
 
No, you can't get the car "plenty warm" while driving, not in the US at least. If you drive at 70mph you might be able to keep the battery at about 25C-30C while driving, but if you stop it will cool down very fast.
310 miles at what speed? Anything above constant 65mph will probably not cut it. I guess if you drive at 60 you might do the 310 miles with 1% or so left. Provided you got the Panasonic and not LG battery

Is he charging with 1kW? Then I will not schedule anything as I doubt you can get the car to full overnight, you gotta be at about 80+% when you start.

I thought just having a supercharger as a destination in the nav heated it for charging, or do I need to do both that and drive 70+ mph to get to an optimal battery temperature? I can always speed up when I’m 20 - 30 miles out from a supercharger.

It occurs to me that it might also be harder to get a Model 3 with heat pump to the correct battery temperature since the heat pump will move some heat from the battery to the cabin (I think, I need to read up on the octovalve more.)

I’m charging off a standard 120V outlet for now...so 1.4kVA max. I’ll set the car to 90% rather than 80% tonight (since I might drive a little tomorrow) and then 100% Saturday night to make sure I’m completely full before I leave.
 
Hey guys, for those who upgraded to a 2021 model 3 from an older model 3 version, can you answer some (or all) of my questions below, please? Thank you.
1. How quieter is the 2021 version (with double-pane windows) inside the cabin compared to 2020 and earlier models?
2. Does the new heat pump make the car more efficient in winter, by heating up the batteries? Or is it just for more efficient cabin heating? Not clear from what I've read.
3. Is the 353 new range real, or what exactly changed? Couldn't tell by the myriad of confusing comments on that. And talking about range, does anybody know how much less range you get if you travel at 85 mph (TX)?

That's it for now. Thank you.
JC

1. Not really noticeable
2. Both
3. 353 is EPA range. Efficiency at 85 mph maybe 70% of EPA
 
Looking for a 2021 Model 3 for my wife, which would be our first EV. I'm uncertain it's time for an EV for us yet, since we travel at around 85 mph here in TX (80 speed limit), and don't know if even the LR has enough range to avoid stopping like a shuttle. We travel from El Paso to Austin often (600 miles), and sometimes at 90/95 (following traffic), and typically only stop twice (Fort Stockton and Fredericksburg). We're willing to stop longer, but if the higher speeds decrease range too much, and we'd have to stop for 2 hours, it's not going to cut it, since it's already a long day trip as it is (9 hrs with normal traffic). Curious if there's a way to input your estimated average speed to re-calculate range on the car's computer. Otherwise, it's not going to be accurate, is it? The good news is there're 4 superchargers on the way, so at least we'd make it there. Ha ha.
 
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1. Not really noticeable
2. Both
3. 353 is EPA range. Efficiency at 85 mph maybe 70% of EPA
That was quick. Thank you very much :). So 250 miles at best. And I assume less if anything higher, and using either heat or A/C, which is almost a given where I live (40F now. In the 100s in summer). By the way, which uses more juice on the model 3: A/C or heat? Curious about that. Thank you again. Guess for #2 alone it's worth buying the 2021. Disappointed #1 is not better. Weird. Take care.
 
Looking for a 2021 Model 3 for my wife, which would be our first EV. I'm uncertain it's time for an EV for us yet, since we travel at around 85 mph here in TX (80 speed limit), and don't know if even the LR has enough range to avoid stopping like a shuttle. We travel from El Paso to Austin often (600 miles), and sometimes at 90/95 (following traffic), and typically only stop twice (Fort Stockton and Fredericksburg). We're willing to stop longer, but if the higher speeds decrease range too much, and we'd have to stop for 2 hours, it's not going to cut it, since it's already a long day trip as it is (9 hrs with normal traffic). Curious if there's a way to input your estimated average speed to re-calculate range on the car's computer. Otherwise, it's not going to be accurate, is it? The good news is there're 4 superchargers on the way, so at least we'd make it there. Ha ha.

Try playing around with A Better Routeplanner. You can set the “reference speed” to a value above 100% to account for driving above the speed limit.
 
Try playing around with A Better Routeplanner. You can set the “reference speed” to a value above 100% to account for driving above the speed limit.
Thank you very much. It looks great, but for some reason, I couldn't get it to work; it said it couldn't calculate my route (I clicked on 'report the error'). It might require to subscribe or something. I used 115% of the speed limit, and 100% charge. There were other parameters I didn't understand, so left them alone. Oh, and it was showing who knows where, but no way to zoom the thing out to go over the US. Thanks anyway.
 
Well I’m not going to supercharge until I’m on my way back home, not on the way out...

It’s 155 miles each way from where I am in Portland to Sisters, so hopefully it has the range to make it all the way back (in which case I’ll stop in Tigard or Beaverton just so I can check the supercharging rate for the first time. Or maybe even one of the Vancouver chargers if I somehow have a bunch of range left, but I’m not hopeful I’ll make it quite that far.)

This is the last I'll say on this routing topic here as it's off topic for this thread.

Have you run this past ABRP? Maybe you could make it both ways, if you drove very slowly, and drafted aggressively on I-5, but 310 miles round trip would really be pushing it. Especially given it will be cold, likely raining, and possibly windy. Cold air is thick compared to warm air.

I THINK you could make it to Sisters and back as far as Salem. That's the most preferable plan, because Salem is a 250kW Supercharger, and that's the only thing you'll want to hit (unless there is something wrong with it - haven't been to that one). The 250kW Superchargers are glorious. Way better than 150kW chargers. ABRP says you can make it (at 4%, so it's tight) with ref speed set to 110% and battery degradation set to 1%. A Better Routeplanner But assumes no rain (an extraordinarily poor assumption in Oregon this time of year - I grew up in Tigard). But with some luck, and if you did some very modest freeway drafting on the way down (it really helps a lot at following distance 7, just always pick a car with mudflaps), you might make it.

Your bailout option will be Detroit Lake. You should be able to make it from Portland to Sisters and back to there without difficulty, assuming you don't do anything to waste energy in Sisters and if the weather is not awful. If the Salem supercharger looks like a disaster (busy or out of service) that's another reason to do it. You could just stop there for a couple minutes, enough to get you to Salem. Or just charge enough to get back to Portland (probably faster overall due to overhead getting to Salem)

But, with winter, and if there is rain or other weather, you'll want to watch very carefully - these things will destroy your range. If you're not comfortable with it, stop just for a few minutes in Detroit Lake on the way out.

You should expect a ballpark of 250 miles (max) of freeway driving out of your vehicle, starting from 100%, in general. This is a very rough rule of thumb, though, and in some cases could be optimistic. It depends on so many factors it's hard to assign a number with any meaning. I'm very happy in summer in optimal conditions if I can go 230 miles from 100% in my 2018 Performance, on the freeway. That's a wonderful result.

Don't stop in Beaverton. That would be at Washington Square at a 72kW charger, and that would be useless. Also it's Washington Square and no one wants to be there at this time of year, especially since it'll be a massive COVID party. Avoid it.

Remember to check Supercharger status en route (make sure they are all open, etc.), or just before you leave (they'll all be close enough your car will give you their status). I assume the Detroit Lake one didn't get incinerated last summer. That one has to be open, otherwise you really must stop and top up in Salem (85% to 95%; it'll take forever) on the way out.

Let us know how it goes. This is actually an excellent test for the range, if you can make it all the way back to Salem.
Screen Shot 2020-12-04 at 9.22.19 PM.png
 
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Looking for a 2021 Model 3 for my wife, which would be our first EV. I'm uncertain it's time for an EV for us yet, since we travel at around 85 mph here in TX (80 speed limit), and don't know if even the LR has enough range to avoid stopping like a shuttle. We travel from El Paso to Austin often (600 miles), and sometimes at 90/95 (following traffic), and typically only stop twice (Fort Stockton and Fredericksburg). We're willing to stop longer, but if the higher speeds decrease range too much, and we'd have to stop for 2 hours, it's not going to cut it, since it's already a long day trip as it is (9 hrs with normal traffic). Curious if there's a way to input your estimated average speed to re-calculate range on the car's computer. Otherwise, it's not going to be accurate, is it? The good news is there're 4 superchargers on the way, so at least we'd make it there. Ha ha.

You'll spend a total of about 1 hour charging. You'll likely find you're not waiting on the car much. When there are more 250kW chargers rolled out you'll spend even less time charging. You just have to get used to stopping more, but not for that long at all (just enough time for a bathroom break and a quick snack, typically).

The main problem with EVs is travel at busy times (particularly in California). The worst thing in the world (well, maybe not the worst) is waiting at Superchargers, and it does happen on busy travel days. That's why I plan to have an ICE until the charging stations are more numerous than gas station pumps.

But if you're not waiting in line, and the Superchargers are all working, this trip would be no problem at all. You can drive as fast as you want. Expect at most ~175 miles between charging stops at 80-90mph (you'll be charging to 60-70% or so, typically).

I drove 1075 miles in a single day over the summer (San Diego to Portland). It took 18.5 hours. Stopped 8 times (could have been 7). I waited on the car for perhaps 45 minutes in total. Not really that much different than a normal vehicle. 250kW chargers are nice.
 
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Is the 353 new range real, or what exactly changed?

Heat pump, which allows them to inflate the EPA range, and maybe the rear motor is more efficient - more like the 2020 Performance rear motor (someone should take a picture of the rear motor plate!). Also the tires are a new version so may have slightly lower rolling resistance. The range increase is very "real" if you are comparing scenarios where you were/are using substantial heating - and the new setup even helps if you're cooling the cabin, due to a liquid-cooled condenser. You're only getting small improvements relative to the prior years, if you're not using heating/cooling (like I said, maybe that rear motor (not confirmed), maybe the tires, and maybe other tiny tweaks).

As far as we can tell, at the current time, you're not getting more energy, unless you get the Performance. If you wait until next year sometime, you might get more energy even with the AWD (range could go to 370 rated miles), as the denser cells are more readily available. No guarantees.

This document from Tesla explains the heat pump and why it helps: https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=51235&flag=1
Screen Shot 2020-12-04 at 10.02.44 PM.png
 
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Have you run this past ABRP? Maybe you could make it both ways, if you drove very slowly, and drafted aggressively on I-5, but 310 miles round trip would really be pushing it. Especially given it will be cold, likely raining, and possibly windy. Cold air is thick compared to warm air.

You should expect a ballpark of 250 miles of freeway driving out of your vehicle, starting from 100%, in general. This is a very rough rule of thumb, though, and in some cases could be optimistic. It depends on so many factors it's hard to assign a number with any meaning. I'm very happy in summer in optimal conditions if I can go 230 miles from 100% in my 2018 Performance, on the freeway. That's a wonderful result.

Thanks for all the advice. And yeah, we are getting off-topic with my trip planning...I’ll leave it at this reply as well, then report back on Sunday when I have some useful stats to share.

I spent some time with ABRP, but I wasn’t sure how accurate the numbers are since the reference consumption is the same for the older Model 3 and the 2021. But now I see there is some hidden logic that does improve the numbers for the 2021 vs older models if I set the temperature down to 10C. There’s also a weird bug that makes it calculate the travel time between Sisters and Detroit (57 mi) at 2.5 hours so I was taking the numbers with a grain of salt. I’ll have to figure out how to report that.

It does seem that I was overly optimistic myself about range at highway speeds and the effects of weather. (I also just moved to OR so I’m still getting familiar with the weather.) I’ll try what you’re suggesting; unless things go unexpectedly well I’ll charge in Detroit, with the goal of getting to Salem with 15 - 20% left. (Giving me plenty of buffer since I don’t have a feel for the car’s behavior yet.) I can always drive back and forth on I-5 near Salem to get to around 10%, so I can get a full range of data from supercharging all the way at 250kW.
 
When you do this, and get to 100%, can you take two pictures in quick succession (ideally, only when the car says "charging complete" - not while it is in the process of charging)?


Hi Alan, i'm planning to do the full charge, for the first time on my EU LR 2021, tomorrow (GMT +1 time) as to get 100% no more than 1 hour before leaving for a short highway driving back & forth same day, and not leaving the car too much time at 100%.

Is it of any use for cell balancing leaving at 100% - charge complete, for some time? In case, how long?

There's anything else (or parameters) you want to me get a reading/picture from?

I have the OBDLINK LX but i'm afraid i have to wait some few weeks to get the harness.

P.S. If you can clarify if it does exist a way, other than the small trip screen that resets at every car ignition (rather than the stated "from last recharge), for resetting the consumption and kms at a given charge and get the mileage and distance at the next recharge, please let me know, i'm still confused about it. The 10-25-50 km average i found is modestly useful...
 
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thought just having a supercharger as a destination in the nav heated it for charging, or do I need to do both that and drive 70+ mph to get to an optimal battery temperature? I can always speed up when I’m 20 - 30 miles out from a supercharger.
Well, it does heat up the battery, but not nearly fast enough. And with the new heat pump as you said, it might use some of it to heat the cabin. You will still have somewhat good temperatures when you arrive doing it like that, but the car will still try to heat up the battery to about 45-50C when you start charging.
 
Is it of any use for cell balancing leaving at 100% - charge complete, for some time? In case, how long?

Not that I'm aware of. I wouldn't leave it at 100% any longer than it needs to be.

There's anything else (or parameters) you want to me get a reading/picture from?

Other than the pictures described, not that I can think of. It would be interesting to see the result on an EU and compare to the US (they do seem to have different constants right now but I'm not really sure).

P.S. If you can clarify if it does exist a way, other than the small trip screen that resets at every car ignition (rather than the stated "from last recharge), for resetting the consumption and kms at a given charge and get the mileage and distance at the next recharge, please let me know, i'm still confused about it.

There are a few trip meters you can scroll down to in that card..."since x:xx time", "since last charge", and then there are two trip meters (can label them, I label one "lifetime"). However, these meters don't count any use when you're in park, so they're not that useful for tracking your true available pack energy, or even your lifetime energy use. Also there's no reason to use them for the purpose of determining pack capacity, as the described pictures will tell you everything you need to know. The only confusing part of the trip meter is that you have to do 4.5% better than the efficiency you think you need to do, to get "km per rated km" rolloff of the rated km. For example, in my car, I need to get about 230-234Wh/mi, rather than the charging constant of 245Wh/mi. This is because of the 4.5% buffer, FWIW. For the same reason the trip meter will never show even close to your full pack capacity "since last charge," unless you drive all the way through the buffer, until the car stops in the road.

I also just moved to OR so I’m still getting familiar with the weather.

You'll get the hang of the winter pattern pretty quick. Lol. The summer is really great in Oregon.
 
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There are a few trip meters you can scroll down to in that card..."since x:xx time", "since last charge", and then there are two trip meters (can label them, I label one "lifetime"). However, these meters don't count any use when you're in park, so they're not that useful for tracking your true available pack energy, or even your lifetime energy use.
Yeah, just found out, there were no signs that scrolling would give you other screens.... silly me...

Anyway it seems useful to have the consumption only when you're in motion driving, as far it's able to reckon the onboard systems consumption when you're idling in traffic: have you been able to verify this is the case?

The only confusing part of the trip meter is that you have to do 4.5% better than the efficiency you think you need to do, to get "km per rated km" rolloff of the rated km. For example, in my car, I need to get about 230-234Wh/mi, rather than the charging constant of 245Wh/mi. This is because of the 4.5% buffer, FWIW.
Do you mean to extrapolate the total range possible using the effective consuption shown by the trip meter? It does apply also to the values given by the App Energy?
 
As far as we can tell, at the current time, you're not getting more energy, unless you get the Performance. If you wait until next year sometime, you might get more energy even with the AWD (range could go to 370 rated miles), as the denser cells are more readily available.View attachment 614637

wait excuse me? You’re saying the 2021 P has the 82kwh battery and the 2021 AWD does not?