MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[TimothyHW3]

So I just updated and it went from 507km to 514km next to the battery. The typical line on energy was at 143, and it still is after update. In the app it went from 539 full to 546 when placed at 100%

Is there a way to post a screenshot of the typical line @143 with both ranges in sight - the expected avg and the rated range in the battery?
Just like here
imgur.com

If my theory is correct, there will be even more difference between the rated range and projected range @ 143 now as it was before so I guess Tesla is getting even more sneakier.

74.5/143 doesn't add up to 551km...

Edit: Oh, ok you have E3D so most likely 77.8
But that is still 541km. Would love to see a 100% charge and the screen grab of a video like above.

 

[EV Promoter]

If you experience the same as @khelge, I expect you to see about 76kWh Nominal Full Pack after the update, and Full Pack when new will show 74.5kWh (or maybe 76kWh if they decided to change that - might be hard coded). For -2% degradation.

Give it a couple more weeks and you’ll be at 77.5kWh with -4% degradation, maybe! Think of it as an Elon Christmas present, where he gives you something you paid for.

I'm really bloody curious and i'm starting to think that could be a chance of an unlock of capacity as you said, although i'm basically skeptic about it. Point is, i have to wait the 2020.48.12.1 update.

Well in the meantime i'll mount my OBD transmitter (OBDLINK LX) and the harness to get the before/after readings.

And with the update i'll sacrifice to science another 100% charge

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

If my theory is correct, there will be even more difference between the rated range and projected range @ 143 now as it was before so I guess Tesla is getting even more sneakier.

They didn’t change the constant. They just unlocked capacity, as expected for the LG battery. He has to have the LG (previously ~74.5kWh, now ~76kWh) battery, with his numbers.

He went from the soft lock of 336 miles to 343 miles, just as Green said.

Nothing sneaky about it. Just a normal, completely expected capacity unlock for this battery.

However, I definitely want to see the pictures too! Just to be certain. Before and after! At least @EV Promoter can help us with the “after,” soon. He already gave the “before.”

74.5/143 doesn't add up to 551km...

Edit: Oh, ok you have E3D so most likely 77.8
But that is still 541km.

This would be less confusing for you if you used 139-139.5Wh/rkm, the actual constant, rather than the incorrect value (the line position of 142-143Wh/rkm). Try it! It’ll make all the numbers make a lot more sense...

(From context of his post, you can tell that @khelge is extrapolating his 100% range in the app (from 94%) so we don’t know his exact 100%. But probably 537-540rkm before the update, 74.5-75kWh. )

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

and i'm starting to think that could be a chance of an unlock of capacity as you said, although i'm basically skeptic about it.

Trust, but verify. I provide no guarantees.

And with the update i'll sacrifice to science another 100% charge

With SMT there is really no need to do so. It’s fine to just charge to 90% and gather the data from the energy screen AND SMT (please record *both* concurrently if you can, to allow us an opportunity to correlate them).

This is a rare opportunity to see SMT values and how they correspond to rated range early on, before you experience capacity loss.

 

[TimothyHW3]

an unlock of capacity

There is no unlock in capacity, it is still 74.5kWh for the LGs. That has been confirmed by the can bus data, this is the capacity of the battery.

Also khelge has a E3D so he has Panasonic

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

There is no unlock in capacity, it is still 74.5kWh for the LGs. That has been confirmed by the can bus data, this is the capacity of the battery.

We’ll see! Do we have CAN bus data yet, after this update? I am very curious to see what we see. Remember “Full Capacity When New” does not necessarily reflect the maximum possible capacity. We’ll find out shortly!

 

[TimothyHW3]

Actually, now looking at the values, @khelge has E3D so they come with about 77.5kWh out of the box(slight degradation). Using the correct 142 constant he reported this adds up to exactly 546km
77.5/14.2
But it could be 77.8/14.3

So I think we confirmed the constant for the LR E3D 77.8 battery at around 142-143Wh/km.

We now need an E5D before and after the update with a video of the energy screen.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Actually, now looking at the values, @khelge has E3D so they come with about 77.5kWh out of the box(slight degradation). Using the correct 142 constant he reported this adds up to exactly 546km
77.5/14.2
But it could be 77.8/14.3

So I think we confirmed the constant for the LR E3D 77.8 battery at around 142-143Wh/km.

We now need an E5D before and after the update with a video of the energy screen.

Or, maybe @khelge doesn't actually know for sure that he has an E3D, and actually has an E5D... I know he says he has one, but I did not see him verify this...how do we KNOW he does? Perhaps @khelge could verify for us...that would help. His picture posted above shows an awful lot of regen at close to 100% charge...makes me suspicious that this is actually a full battery (circumstantially, implies E5D). We just need hard data from him.

Or (both extrapolating from ~94%):
539rkm *139.5Wh/rkm = 75.2kWh
546rkm *139.5Wh/rkm = 76.2kWh

(Note we have only 3 significant digits on the constant. It might be as low as 139Wh/rkm. It seemed to probably be above 139Wh/rkm based on prior data though. This is subject to revision to another significant figure, when we get more precise data, anyway.)

Remember @verygreen states the soft locks are at 336 and (now) 343 miles (540km, 552km)

So these appear to be closer to values that are just below the soft lock threshold (it's chilly in Norway so not entirely surprising at this time of year that the displayed values might be a few km below the soft lock unless the battery is very warm).

We already know (in the US) that E3D, ~77.8kWh batteries, give about 557rkm, is this different in Europe???:

2021 Model 3 - Charge data

So I don't see how 546rkm on an E3D makes any sense.

Anyway, from that post:
557rkm*139.5Wh/rkm = 77.7kWh.

 

[EV Promoter]

Trust, but verify. I provide no guarantees.



With SMT there is really no need to do so. It’s fine to just charge to 90% and gather the data from the energy screen AND SMT (please record *both* concurrently if you can, to allow us an opportunity to correlate them).

This is a rare opportunity to see SMT values and how they correspond to rated range early on, before you experience capacity loss.

My messagge didn't aged well, right now appeared the amber icon to download 2020.48.12.1

But i'm not downloading it, i want to see SMT before and after, but now is dinner time and probably will not have the time in the weekend. But i'll try to find some, have to install the harness too

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

But i'm not downloading it, i want to see SMT before and after, but now is lunch time and probably will not have the time in the weekend. But i'll try to find some, have to install the harness too

Makes sense. Worth the wait. You know how to take the data carefully, so looking forward to it. Just be sure to get concurrent data from both the energy screen and SMT, both before and after. Must dispel all uncertainty!

 

[Korgmatose]

2020.48.12.1 downloaded, got the same "range upgrade" message in the changelog.
Maybe the 48.12 was for LG and 48.12.1 is for panasonic? Wild guesses.
Will try to do a 90% tonight and a 100 before a trip tomorrow. But the app claims 540 when set to 100.
I don't have access to SMT so cannot post canbus data but will do a projected and rated range and capacity tomorrow.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

and a 100 before a trip tomorrow.

Would be interesting to get a capture of those regen dots at 99% or 100%, at a similar temperature, to compare to your prior results you posted above. I predict more dots, with less regen at 99% and 100%!

Definitely those pictures of the Energy screen would be good too, just so we can double check that the constant is still the same. That is good to see from everyone who posts data.

 

[khelge]

Tesla model 3 software update

I'll go charge my car up to 100% again and report back. Also don't know if estimated range in the energy window can be trusted in the pic since it was when the car woke up and hadn't moved at all since update. I'll take new pic when I'm at 94% later

Also, why can't we edit posts here on this forum? Super annoying

 

[jjrandorin]

Tesla model 3 software update

I'll go charge my car up to 100% again and report back. Also don't know if estimated range in the energy window can be trusted in the pic since it was when the car woke up and hadn't moved at all since update. I'll take new pic when I'm at 94% later

Also, why can't we edit posts here on this forum? Super annoying

(moderator note: There is a window in which you can edit your posts. I think its like an hour or something, but even though I have been a member here for a couple years now, I have only been a moderator for a few weeks now so I dont know what that threshhold is.

Another thing, just of note, when you have very few posts on TMC, the forum software usually sends posts that include links in them to a moderator queue so they have to be approved first. I believe that is setup that way to prevent link spamming etc. For the sections I am a moderator of (this one and energy) I try to approve them as soon as I see them and verify there isnt anything going on with them.

Just explaining the lag time between your post and it appearing.. I also have a "day job" I am doing at the same time as browsing the forums etc lol. I had no idea how much actual additional work moderating this site was going to be. I mean, I did... but it still outstrips what I thought.)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Tesla model 3 software update

I'll go charge my car up to 100% again and report back. Also don't know if estimated range in the energy window can be trusted in the pic since it was when the car woke up and hadn't moved at all since update. I'll take new pic when I'm at 94% later

Also, why can't we edit posts here on this forum? Super annoying

Interesting. If I am interpreting your pictures correctly, both the constant changed (for sure) and the capacity was slightly increased (maybe). Please correct any incorrect interpretation. So it looks like @TimothyHW3 was right about this update being basically solely the constant adjustment. I was wrong (I think) so far in this case, since I also expected a constant update...but not on this update...unless more range also shows up on the 77+kWh vehicles with this update, in which case I guess I was right too!:

I DO expect a constant update eventually, to about 137Wh/km. But not for this update, if it is not providing ~568km on the Panasonic vehicles.

For reference, based on your notes, I am assuming we see here:
Before:
Lines aligned at 143Wh/km (as expected - note the projected range and actual rated range differ, so this is NOT the value of the constant).
507rkm@95%, 495km projected @143Wh/rkm
=> 507rkm/0.95 = ~534rkm@100%, 495km*143Wh/km/507rkm=139.6Wh/rkm (old constant), 495km*143Wh/km/0.95 = 74.5kWh capacity

After:
Lines not aligned at 143Wh/km. (I did expect adjustments at some point...)

514rkm@94%, 492km projected @ 143Wh/km
=> 514rkm/0.94 = ~547rkm@100%, 492km*143Wh/km/514rkm = 137Wh/rkm (new constant), 492km*143Wh/km/0.94 = 75kWh capacity

This 137Wh/rkm (220.5Wh/rmi) value is what I expect will be the final value, because ~77.6kWh/353rmi = 220Wh/rmi (if it's 220.5Wh/rmi the degradation threshold is more like 77.8kWh). I've been expecting this for a while, as documented earlier in this thread.

2) Tesla hasn't got the constant set correctly yet (software). I expected a constant of 220Wh/rmi. Preliminary EPA Data for Model 3 AWD & Model 3 P 2021 Released With that 220Wh/rmi constant your car would show 352 rated miles. There is precedent for this - nearly exactly a year ago, new 2020 vehicles were showing low range for this reason. The website shows an EPA range of 353 rated miles, so I do expect that a brand new vehicle will show that, eventually.

As expected, in your last picture, the line is at ~141Wh/rkm (about 3rkm (4rkm in this case, probably due to rounding) above the constant).

Unfortunately, even though you now have the "final" constant, you still only have 339 rated miles of range, rather than the promised & expected 353 rated miles for a 2021 AWD. That's because you don't have enough energy, unfortunately.

Important to note that the capacity increase is small enough it COULD be rounding error from the extrapolation - we'd really need an SMT readback or 100% charge to know that. We'll have it soon. My guess is that it edged up slightly with this update, but not to the 76kWh I expected. We'll see.

I can't explain why you're seeing limited capacity from an alleged E3D (non-LG) pack. I'm not sure the labels are always correct on the documentation, tbh. No idea.

Now we need a report from someone running the new update, with the 77+kWh battery. I expect we'll see reported range of over 564rkm from those people after this update. However, it's possible Tesla is artificially boosting ONLY the lower capacity packs to reduce customer upset, for now, and maybe no change applied to the other packs (eventually it will, though!). We'd see that in a different constant value for those vehicles, though. Would be nice to see what @kxts is seeing now, if he has 2020.48.12.x

 

[TimothyHW3]

take new pic when I'm at 94% later

Do you have a video like the one I suggested? I need to see the km under battery and next to energy line when they match on one picture or video. Thanks

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Do you have a video like the one I suggested? I need to see the km under battery and next to energy line when they match on one picture or video. Thanks

As usual, when the lines align, the battery rated km and the projected range will differ by 2-3% (the projected range will be ~2.5% lower than the rated range, when the lines perfectly match...just as is shown in your video).

 

[khelge]

So I drove from home to a v2 supercharger that is about 40-45 min away using navigation and the car started to precondition the battery right away. So 40ish min of preconditioning. Pictures follow with descriptions. Before update I got like 11kW charge on v3 supercharger at 88-90% so I saw an improvement? Felt like the updated unlocked more battery than I currently have available.
Charging after 48.12.1

@TimothyHW3 Added requested video at end of link above.
@AlanSubie4Life I have chosen the 18" aero without the covers in the service menu in the car (since that's what my winter tire/rims/wheels/whatever are). Maybe those ppl in US run the 18" with covers? It says something in the menu when u change the spec that if can affect range and stuff. And there is a separate option for with and without covers

If this really is a battery from LG in disguise I'll start thinking about returning the car, still have 9 days left to do it (even tho I'll be banned from buying a new for a year)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So I drove from home to a v2 supercharger that is about 40-45 min away using navigation and the car started to precondition the battery right away. So 40ish min of preconditioning. Pictures follow with descriptions. Before update I got like 11kW charge on v3 supercharger at 88-90% so I saw an improvement? Felt like the updated unlocked more battery than I currently have available.
Charging after 48.12.1

@TimothyHW3 Added requested video at end of link above.
@AlanSubie4Life I have chosen the 18" aero without the covers in the service menu in the car (since that's what my winter tire/rims/wheels/whatever are). Maybe those ppl in US run the 18" with covers? It says something in the menu when u change the spec that if can affect range and stuff. And there is a separate option for with and without covers

If this really is a battery from LG in disguise I'll start thinking about returning the car, still have 9 days left to do it (even tho I'll be banned from buying a new for a year)

Great! Super informative. First, you have a LOT of regen at 100%, even though it is with a very nice warm battery, that much regen is substantial for 100%. To me that suggests that this battery is not full.

On to the energy screen, screen capture from your video (was tricky because the screen kept changing and it was fuzzy a lot of the time of course):

Moving dotted line at 142Wh/km is nearly at the solid 141Wh/km line (note that the range is dramatically different, and will be slightly closer at 141Wh/km (would be ~454km projected range at 141Wh/km, vs. 468rkm, so about 3% difference, as predicted (2.5%))).

451km*142Wh/km / 468rkm = 137Wh/rkm (as previously calculated, about 3-4Wh/km lower than the line)

So again, we can confirm your battery is: 137Wh/rkm*548rkm = 75.1kWh.

So it DOES look like they probably also slightly increased your capacity, since your pre-update data definitely suggested less than this. @EV Promoter's before and after data should suggest to us whether or not this actually happened. But mostly it's just a constant change (minimal change in actual range).

That regen picture is really interesting, though. I am still fairly sure your battery has more capacity that may be unlocked in future, if it proves to be safe. Would be great to get comparative data from someone who has the larger capacity (~77.5kWh) battery at 100% after a supercharge (warm).

It says something in the menu when u change the spec that if can affect range and stuff. And there is a separate option for with and without covers

As I understand it, this will only affect the Energy -> Trip projections (the only useful projections - the Consumption screen is not useful), which are only accessible once you navigate somewhere, and match the Nav endpoint. Those Trip projections will have different results, depending on how you tell it your car is configured - that is what it is warning about. So you should make your selected wheels match as closely as possible to your actual configuration to make those projections as accurate as possible. What it does is change its underlying baseline assumptions about your car's efficiency - because tires matter a LOT.

 

[TimothyHW3]

Added requested video at end of link above

Thanks, but it cuts off at the right moment. Basically you have to wait until both ranges left and right are the same. They were nearly the same around 137 or something.

No idea what Tesla is doing here really... Also, it does seem you have more regen as normal, but you do get a little regen with the old batteries at 100% as well, but not that much. Do you have access to scan my tesla to read the nominal full values?

Edit: actually, when I look at old pictures I think the regen is normal when the battery is warm.