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MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

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Simply ENVY.
I'm at 76 kWh NFP.
It seems that even if you leave your normal way to charge (AC to 55-58%) to a more stressful way (DC SuC) , you always have the better NFP ever.
I still continue to experience drops when i let the car (due to force majeure ) under 20% SOC.
Then it recovers some but not all what lost in the drop.
About balancing (going near 90% or to 100% and let it charge up to stop) I don't understand if it has something to do with IMBALANCE in SMT in mV.
I always have 4 mV imbalance ( rarely 6.00).
This means that the BMS is perfect calibrated? What the relation between the Imbalance shown and the BMS being not accurate/calibrated?
And the BMS (Battery Management System) is Calibrated or Balanced? OR are the cells to be Balanced?
If at 4.00 mV this means that theere is no room for improvement?
Curiously... just after a 100% prolonged charge (up to complete Stop) the imbalance on SMT is Higher in my car

Bms calibration has nothing to do with cell imbalance. In theory the way to check how calibrated the bms is, is to discharge the battery to 0% or better sub 0% (and enter the buffer) and look at the cell voltage and if it corresponds with the soc.

I dont think there is any point to do this though as the bms is very accurate and even gives you a confidence interval (seen in smt as soc max soc min - the bms is close to 100% sure that the soc is between soc min and soc max and the display soc seems to usually be a random number in between.

I. E. I have attached you this pic of me from a few days ago where i got to my nightcharger with 3kms left (increased to 4km while standing).

Soc expected is what the car shows you and that is 0.62% (gets displayed as 1%).
This doesnt include the buffer of 4.5%.so soc ui is the true soc (6.1% which actually means my buffer is 5.5% held in reserve)

The reason for that is that the bms is sure that my true soc is between 5% (4.4% buffer, probably a rounding error) and 7.1% (6.5% buffer).

It usually but not always seems to chose the soc min number to avoid letting you run out of juice if you do need to access the buffer. The other issue of course is that you might have 4.5% guaranteed buffer but if the cells are imbalanced enough that some cells are below safe voltage cutoff the car will just shut down. So its best not to go there.......
 

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Simply ENVY.
I'm at 76 kWh NFP.
It seems that even if you leave your normal way to charge (AC to 55-58%) to a more stressful way (DC SuC) , you always have the better NFP ever.
I still continue to experience drops when i let the car (due to force majeure ) under 20% SOC.
Then it recovers some but not all what lost in the drop.
About balancing (going near 90% or to 100% and let it charge up to stop) I don't understand if it has something to do with IMBALANCE in SMT in mV.
I always have 4 mV imbalance ( rarely 6.00).
This means that the BMS is perfect calibrated? What the relation between the Imbalance shown and the BMS being not accurate/calibrated?
And the BMS (Battery Management System) is Calibrated or Balanced? OR are the cells to be Balanced?
If at 4.00 mV this means that theere is no room for improvement?
Curiously... just after a 100% prolonged charge (up to complete Stop) the imbalance on SMT is Higher in my car
@Candleflame already answered but I’ll fill in a little.

4mV seems to be the normal imbalance in the middle of the SOC range, when the battery is at rest Or carefully driven.
I Always see 4mV when I check. 4mV is not much, so that for sure cool.
I can see 6mV when parking my car in the garage at about 30% after a 50km drive from work, that settles to 4mV quite fast after the parking).

Balancing the battery is only needed to either get it 100% properly filled with energy. ( some EV manufacturer may balance in the bottom instead).
If the battery is normally balanced and is at 4mV in the normal SOC range, the imbalance will increase when charged to 100%. This is due to the small differences in the cells, a cell with smaller capacity will hit 4.20V(the limit for a li ion cell of the NCA type). Typical imbalance when reacing 100%/4.20V is about 10-20mV if the battery shows 4mV in the medium SOC range.
If no balancing is done, some of the cells will not reach full capacity and the charge will not give the maximum energy. Normally there isnt that much difference in energy from the first cell reaches the ”full” value.
(My battery had 8mV when it reached 100% on the yesterday charge. For a brief moment the imbalance alternated between 8 and 10mV so it maybe topped somewhere between 8 and 10, when the charge was finished it was at 8mV, and soon after driving commenced so no long time to balance it. I also had a full charge until stop 6 days before this one, thats probably the reason for being quite low on the imbalance this time).

Balancing is only needed at higher SOC to make sure all cells can get close to full, thats the reason for balancing not be done below 90%.
Also, balancing is done by burning of the energy in the highest cells so if it alway was done, it would cost energy unnecessarily.


As @Candleflame wrote, BMS ”Calibration” is about the BMS having the correct estimation about the batterys actual capacity.
I see daily in a swedish facebook teslagroup that these two(balancing battery and BMS calibration). is mixed up and misunderstood.
They are not connected, so you could have a very unbalanced battery with for example 30mV imbalance, but if the BMS has a correct estimated battery capacity, the BMS is spot on( ”well calibrated”).

The BMS calibration is about getting the car to sleep(contactors in the battery open and the battery gets to rest which let the cell voltage come to the resting voltage(Open circuit voltage, OCV). That voltage tell the BMS what the true SOC is. For example, a 100% SOC fresch cell holds 4.20V, or very close but with the Car not sleeping, lights on and maybe the AC/heater the load causes the voltage to drop to perhaps 4.19V or so.
The BMS would need to get one reading of the OCV at high SOC and one reading at low SOC. As the BMS knows the energy that goes in and out, it can calculate for example that it was 60 kWh between 15 % and 90% SOC, that give 75%= 60kWh —> 100% = 80kWh.
Maybe the BMS needs more than two readings to get a proper result, I havent done any ”calibration” by purpose.
 
Bms calibration has nothing to do with cell imbalance. In theory the way to check how calibrated the bms is, is to discharge the battery to 0% or better sub 0% (and enter the buffer) and look at the cell voltage and if it corresponds with the soc.

I dont think there is any point to do this though as the bms is very accurate and even gives you a confidence interval (seen in smt as soc max soc min - the bms is close to 100% sure that the soc is between soc min and soc max and the display soc seems to usually be a random number in between.

I. E. I have attached you this pic of me from a few days ago where i got to my nightcharger with 3kms left (increased to 4km while standing).

Soc expected is what the car shows you and that is 0.62% (gets displayed as 1%).
This doesnt include the buffer of 4.5%.so soc ui is the true soc (6.1% which actually means my buffer is 5.5% held in reserve)

The reason for that is that the bms is sure that my true soc is between 5% (4.4% buffer, probably a rounding error) and 7.1% (6.5% buffer).

It usually but not always seems to chose the soc min number to avoid letting you run out of juice if you do need to access the buffer. The other issue of course is that you might have 4.5% guaranteed buffer but if the cells are imbalanced enough that some cells are below safe voltage cutoff the car will just shut down. So its best not to go there.......
Good post! I fill in a little:

Yes, the imbalance will increase at very low(and high) SOC. In the pictues below we see a test I did in the summer, driving to close to 0% SOC, and I have 4mV imbalance as usual before I started driving down the SOC.
I also know I had 8mV when reaching a SUC on a trip this summer with 5% SOC).

A well balanced battery will be able to get close to fully charged and and only need a minimum of balancing time. Also, it will be possible to use the battery down to quite low SOC. It will be the cells with the lowest voltage that limit the endpoint where the car needs to shut down to protect the battery. But as you say, if we stay at or above 0% this should never be a problem(thats one ot the reasons for the 4.5% below 0% Indicated SOC.)

This was a on purpose made drive to get to 0%, or close to. The Battery voltage 3.09V per cell was just after applying park in the garage so the AC and lights was on. I guess open circuit voiltage would be about 0.05 volt higher or so, or about 3.14V -ish.
4E18E206-62A3-4686-9348-BA7F74025109.png

63C00223-A011-482A-AA9B-8C7B39F8D841.png
 
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Hi,

I posted a message on another thread about how my UK 2021 Model 3 Performance seems to have lost 5% range in my first month since new. I have done 1100 miles.


It got me wondering what battery I have. After DM'ing @AlanSubie4Life, it was suggested to see if @eivissa may be able to shed some light.

Any idea what battery this is?
Part number 1660112-00-B

My CoC document states I have a E3LD, v19 with 567km range. The most I've seen was 311 miles at 100% rated on the app (slider to right). Only actually charged to 100% once, yesterday and got 300 miles rated range (10% to 100% charge).

Have I really got a Panasonic '82.1Kwh' battery, or is this not an E3LD?
Just a quick heads up in regards to this post.

Here is a German Q3/2021 M3P (MIC). I've had this one in Scan My Tesla and can confirm the 82,1kWh Full Pack When New identifier for a Panasonic 3L pack. The COC states E3LD and 567km as expected. This is the battery sticker...

Screenshot_20211109-085615.png

Panasonic is probably shipping the individual cells from the states to China, where they are assembled into the 3L Long Range packs. In Europe the "made in" is defined by the point where final assembly is performed, so this would match this method.
 
Battery cells might be imported to China via those 2 boats from the US.
See https://t.co/33SoDgt40S.

It means that there is no proof of new LG battery usage at all by Tesla yet (even December MIC Model Y are still using Y5CD)
99% of all M3LR that are handed over to customers in Germany from the 12th of November have the new LG 5L pack.
Also, they certified the Model Y in Australia last month and skipped the Y5CD completely. The car will only come as Y5LD.
Australia was good foresight of what MIC Models were gonna come to Europe soon thereafter.
I found a MYLR with the 5C pack on the way to Europe, that was built end of October, but I am still positive that the MYLR from November onwards, with the N=2022 VIN, will come with the larger 5L pack.
 
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Just a quick heads up in regards to this post.

Here is a German Q3/2021 M3P (MIC). I've had this one in Scan My Tesla and can confirm the 82,1kWh Full Pack When New identifier for a Panasonic 3L pack. The COC states E3LD and 567km as expected. This is the battery sticker...

View attachment 730981
Panasonic is probably shipping the individual cells from the states to China, where they are assembled into the 3L Long Range packs. In Europe the "made in" is defined by the point where final assembly is performed, so this would match this method.
Thanks for all the help and effort here! Very much appreciated and useful to other owners who may find the same part number in the future.

An update on my 300 mile rated range. I'm seeing it rise very slowly, bouncing between 302 and 300. I disconnected both EV.Energy and Ohme apps by changing my Tesla password. I also turned off Sentry mode (was set to come on automatically when parked away from home). I'll monitor for 2+ weeks and report back.
 
Just throwing some data out there if anybody’s interested. Picked my car up last week of May.View attachment 731116View attachment 731114
I wonder whether TeslaFi differentiates on their fleet plots between 2021 LR AWD cars with the 77.8kWh battery and the “82.1kWh” battery? Seems like a major difference!

As we all well know, rated mile energy expansion ensures that vehicles with the “82.1kWh” pack will display 353/354 rated miles at 100% until the NFP drops below 77.8kWh.

So these two types of vehicles will have completely different rated-mile range loss characteristics in TeslaFi. To me that seems evident from the plot above (it looks to me like they are NOT differentiating - I’m not sure they can, since I am not sure there is anything in the API that makes the difference evident).
 
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Hi everyone,

I tried reading this thread but it’s big and long!

I’ve recently had my battery for my APRIL 2021 MIC M3P replaced. I’m curious did I get the same, better, or worse to what was in it originally (which I don’t have any info on, hopefully the above is enough to go by though seems I had ~ 79 kWH according to a third party app when I started using it).

Battery replacement details as below
HVBAT,REMAN,LONG 1.00 RANGE,AWD-
RWD,3PH,M3(1137377-
01-P)

Thanks!
 
Hi everyone,

I tried reading this thread but it’s big and long!

I’ve recently had my battery for my APRIL 2021 MIC M3P replaced. I’m curious did I get the same, better, or worse to what was in it originally (which I don’t have any info on, hopefully the above is enough to go by though seems I had ~ 79 kWH according to a third party app when I started using it).

Battery replacement details as below
HVBAT,REMAN,LONG 1.00 RANGE,AWD-
RWD,3PH,M3(1137377-
01-P)

Thanks!

Never seen this pack reference 1137377-01-P before. Could it be a LG E5LD ( instead of Panasonic E3LD 1104423-00-T) ? Perhaps first one on TM3P ? 🙂

What kind of problem did you have with the battery pack that was replaced ?
 
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Never seen this pack reference 1137377-01-P before. Could it be a LG E5LD ( instead of Panasonic E3LD 1104423-00-T) ? Perhaps first one on TM3P ? 🙂

What kind of problem did you have with the battery pack that was replaced ?

I got a BMS a029 error. The pack that came with the car was ~79 kW through the third party app. I must admit this new battery seems to have not changed my anticipated range much at all (anticipated 480km) but maybe it needs more BMS calibration?
 
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