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MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

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Yes I know. Approx 192.000 km I think and 8 years.
Just wondering as I am about to buy one, if this is a worry point if I plan to keep for 3 years.
........Maybe I should just lease :)
Well, the batteries degrade mostly from time. Miles also wear but in general, less. Calendar aging lessens with time.

If you use the car like most do, in DK, you can calculate to loose about 5% capacity the first year. Then it will take four times as long to loose another 5%, so 10% loss after four years. And, 20% after 16 years.

Its not a problem, really.
 
Battery sticker M3 E6LR 60kWh LFP
Screenshot_20211124-135807~2.png
 
However, the car.info site still reports 75 kWh pack, but it could just be that they dont have new data for the LR yet.
Carinfo is not a god source for exact data.
They labeled my M3P with 75kWh for long time, now it seems fixed. They still have the wrong engine power in the info so they seem to use ”general known facts” instead of exact data extracted.
 
Another E6LR read-out from the same day with even higher 61,3kWh.
The rated consumption is set too high at 140Wh/km. The old SR 55kWh was set to 128-130Wh/km!
There is probably an update incoming that corrects it up to 470-480km and hopefully also an increase in charge power. The charge curve wasnt too impressive...
BAT Data 2.jpg
 
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The rated consumption is set too high at 140Wh/km. The old SR 55kWh hat 128-130Wh/km!
I assume this is just the line position on the energy screen? So actual constant is closer to 137Wh/km? That is what we calculated on the US vehicle (220Wh/mi). And of course the line is always 3Wh/km (5Wh/mi) high!

Your data seems to confirm the info from the US vehicles from a few days back (have not seen SMT captures from US vehicles though they probably exist). So maybe the degradation threshold is 60.5kWh (matching FPWN). Only approximate in this post, since it was not at 100%. Cannot remember if we got 100% energy screen data subsequently.

Master Thread - Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion

Master Thread - LFP Battery in Model 3
 
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I assume this is just the line position on the energy screen? So actual constant is closer to 137Wh/km? That is what we calculated on the US vehicle (220Wh/mi). And of course the line is always 3Wh/km (5Wh/mi) high!

Your data seems to confirm the info from the US vehicles from a few days back (have not seen SMT captures from US vehicles though they probably exist). So maybe the degradation threshold is 60.5kWh (matching FPWN). Only approximate in this post, since it was not at 100%. Cannot remember if we got 100% energy screen data subsequently.

Master Thread - Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion

Master Thread - LFP Battery in Model 3
I forgot to check the Energy Screen to be honest. SMT usually drops all the numbers I am looking for and I have had to cover quite a few items on this test run including acceleration tests and so on. People are currently afraid of getting a slower car now.

To be honest, I think if a degradation threshold exists, then it it above any capacity that this battery can offer. I saw 61,2/438 and 61,3/440 jumping up and down and another driver got 441.

My impression is actually that (weirdly) the BMS is using the Model Y SR values at the moment.
  • Rated consumption is around 140Wh/km which is exactly what I expect from a RWD MY (Y6LR). M3 is 128-130Wh/km.
  • Max Discharge Power is 257kW according to the BMS. The Model Y's rear motor limit is 255kW.
  • The Model 3 SR rear motor power is limited to 239kW confirmed by SMT power run...as advertised.
 
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To be honest, I think if a degradation threshold exists, then it it above any capacity that this battery can offer. I saw 61,2/438 and 61,3/440 jumping up and down and another driver got 441.

I see. I guess actually my 220Wh/mi value was roughly rounded due to the data being rough, and it was closer to 222Wh/mi, BTW. But anyway, I'm not sure about that statement in bold above.

So 61.2kWh/438km or 61.3kWh/440km is 139Wh/km/140Wh/km as you said. That's 224Wh/mi.

These ranges are all about 273/274 miles which is the max I would expect the car to display for its EPA rated range of 272 miles. I think we've seen for other vehicles well above the degradation threshold that there is a limit to what will be displayed for the Full/Ideal Rated Range. Again due to "constant" expansion above the threshold.

Anyway, if we back these numbers down to what is shown on the energy screen in the links above, I'd expect vehicles will still show range of 438km at 60.5kWh nominal full pack (not 435km) and we'll see the final "settled non-expanded" constant being about 222Wh/mi (138Wh/km). However, those were at SOC of only 60% so they're not ideal for accuracy. Note that at 138Wh/km, 61.3kWh would be 444km, to give an idea of the impact of the constant expansion on perceived rated range (constant expands to make sure this value is never seen). Obviously just small differences.

Thanks for all the data, in any case. Not much point in getting the energy screen info unless you're close to 100% charge anyway. But it's always interesting to me to cross check it since it provides us an insight into when capacity loss should start to show. So if you do happen to see a vehicle with close to 100% that you're running SMT on...just a quick pic?
 
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I am due to pick up my UK Model 3 Long range MIC in a few days, it will have the E5CD LG 75kWh battery pack. I have the option to take it or possibly wait and take the one in the next quarter but not sure if that would be different and the higher rated Panasonic 82 kWh battery.
 
@MESSIAH The 82kWh E5LD is a new LG variant, not Panasonic (3=Panasonic, 5=LG). Was holding out for that myself, so put an order in mid Nov for next quarter once I saw the date slipped to March -- and then ended up with a December delivery date haha.

Given that they're still saying 360 miles WLTP on the configurator, I don't think they're coming to the UK in Q1 either, so I think you're likely be waiting until at least Q2, if they come to the UK at all.

For comparison, the configurator for the rest of Europe has been quoting the 614km range (380 miles) for orders due to ship in Q4 2021, so if our configurator isn't saying 380 miles for Q1 then Q1's cars are probably still going to be the 360 mile E5CD (75kWh LG).

Batteries-Tesla-Model-3-LR-Performance.png
 
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If I was Elon, and the space and time they now have for q122 deliveries. I’d wait for all q4 deliveries to complete before announcing anything…. to prevent cancellations

This is why they made 60kwh cars and put them in transit (4 weeks from China to EU) before official Q4 change, they'd get too many cancelled cars from people wanting another 10% range.
 
This is why they made 60kwh cars and put them in transit (4 weeks from China to EU) before official Q4 change, they'd get too many cancelled cars from people wanting another 10% range.
True but at this point, and given my car is due in a week or so, I aint going to take that gamble that the new battery is in Q1 deliveries. Odds are, it isnt. You can get the new battery which is all great but come Q4 2022 there will be a different battery, a better battery.

Where do you stop.

300+ range is more than enough for most. 250+ range on the SR+ is more than enough for most. Value wont just fall out the arse of your car, people buy second hand on the basis that it isnt new and most up to date. Odds are, a buyer in the future wont have a clue about which brand or chemistry your car battery is. The same way that most people who buy ICE aint got a clue about internal engine modifications that changed a 32mpg car to a 39mpg car.
 
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Regadring battery and range. I believe I rad a couple of times that the 2021 refresh M3 can have some issues with the heat pump so it reduce range by using energy? Not sure it is the right thread to post this in. But how do a non-expert detect that ?

 
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