MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[kxts]

Just got my update to 2020.48.12.1. Currently showing 167 mi/268 km at 47%, which extrapolates to 355 mi (range of 352 - 359 allowing for a range of 46.5 - 47.4%)/570 km (range of 563 - 574.)

I’m at 1067 miles on the odometer, so it’s good to see the full rated range before degradation starts to set in!

Constant (km): 210 / 268 * 174 = 136.3 Wh/km
Constant (mi): 132 / 167 * 277 = 218.9 Wh/mi
Capacity: 268 / .47 * .1363 = 77.7kWh (range of 77.0 - 78.6 accounting for 1 decimal of rounding on the percentage)

These numbers are probably a bit off since I’m only at 47% and the rounding error is large. Unfortunately I’m still charging at 120V so it’ll take me a while to get to 80% and decrease the error. I still need to poke around some more and try to find that battery label.

(This is a US 2021 LR, and I was seeing 346 miles at 100% with 2020.39.103 and 2020.48.10.)

 

[EV Promoter]

Hi @AlanSubie4Life

Got some few problems for that testing, but relevant numbers has been taken.

1) Right before the update to 2020.48.12.1

Rated range = 339 km @ 64% - Real 63.6 %
Constant (353/339) x 134 = 139.5 Wh/km
Nominal pack 74,2 kWh with 0.4% degradation.

2) Just after the update (but prior of reset):

Same nominal battery capacity
Projected ideal range from SMT 542 km
Rated range = 343 km @ 63% - Real 63.2 %
Constant (351/343) x 134 = 137.1 Wh/km

3) Charge @100% at SuC.

I wanted to test the range and SMT parameters after at 100% full charge, so i went directly from that test to the SuC.

But the update was a mess. As soon as it fineshed, it did appeard a couple of error messages, one to call the assistence, the other of navigation maps not updated, and the usual warnings of Autopilot not running (most EU cars have been delivered with a faulty camera and we are waiting for replacement. So, as previously, i thought was good practice to do a 2-wheel+pedal reset.
It did erased abolutely every setting and data in the car, including trips and associations of keys and so on. It did happen already to some few people updating to this exact update. Lot's of strange things on BT & Wifi connection too and my navigation still doesn't work waiting for the update. I wrote to the service today.

In that condition, i did some few meters and the OBD transmitter stopped to work, i don't know if it's connected to the update mess. It's a 7 years old OBDLINK LX (Android) and the phone doesn't find it anymore. The light on the OBDLINK works. But it cannot be paired. I don't know what's wrong, possibly just the trasmitter doesn't work anymore. So, i could'nt take the SMT data after the full charge.

The Rated range went to 545 km, the Constant was too shabby to be taken from the energy screen, so i took it later at a lower SOC during the trip following the full charge (first screen below). Confirmed 137 km Wh/km, spot on. Of course no SMT reading, unfortunately.

Anyway not even the full charge went competely right: after the estimated time to 100%, i've been waiting an extra 50 min. to see appearing "Recharge Complete". It did never appeared, it kept recalculating and increasing the range 1 km per time at very slow pace and the speed of charge getting to 1 kW. At the end i could'nt wait anymore and i did interrupted the charge. Very strange.

, the number is exactly 137 Wh/km as previusly.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Hi @AlanSubie4Life

Got some few problems for that testing, but relevant numbers has been taken.

1) Right before the update to 2020.48.12.1

Rated range = 339 km @ 64% - Real 63.6 %
Constant (353/339) x 134 = 139.5 Wh/km
Nominal pack 74,2 kWh with 0.4% degradation.

View attachment 619710 View attachment 619712 View attachment 619713

2) Just after the update (but prior of reset):

Same nominal battery capacity
Projected ideal range from SMT 542 km
Rated range = 343 km @ 63% - Real 63.2 %
Constant (351/343) x 134 = 137.1 Wh/km

View attachment 619716 View attachment 619717


View attachment 619714 View attachment 619715

3) Charge @100% at SuC.

I wanted to test the range and SMT parameters after at 100% full charge, so i went directly from that test to the SuC.

But the update was a mess. As soon as it fineshed, it did appeard a couple of error messages, one to call the assistence, the other of navigation maps not updated, and the usual warnings of Autopilot not running (most EU cars have been delivered with a faulty camera and we are waiting for replacement. So, as previously, i thought was good practice to do a 2-wheel+pedal reset.
It did erased abolutely every setting and data in the car, including trips and associations of keys and so on. It did happen already to some few people updating to this exact update. Lot's of strange things on BT & Wifi connection too and my navigation still doesn't work waiting for the update. I wrote to the service today.

In that condition, i did some few meters and the OBD transmitter stopped to work, i don't know if it's connected to the update mess. It's a 7 years old OBDLINK LX (Android) and the phone doesn't find it anymore. The light on the OBDLINK works. But it cannot be paired. I don't know what's wrong, possibly just the trasmitter doesn't work anymore. So, i could'nt take the SMT data after the full charge.

The Rated range went to 545 km, the Constant was too shabby to be taken from the energy screen, so i took it later at a lower SOC during the trip following the full charge (first screen below). Confirmed 137 km Wh/km, spot on. Of course no SMT reading, unfortunately.

Anyway not even the full charge went competely right: after the estimated time to 100%, i've been waiting an extra 50 min. to see appearing "Recharge Complete". It did never appeared, it kept recalculating and increasing the range 1 km per time at very slow pace and the speed of charge getting to 1 kW. At the end i could'nt wait anymore and i did interrupted the charge. Very strange.


View attachment 619728 , the number is exactly 137 Wh/km as previusly.

View attachment 619726 View attachment 619727

Well, at least you got the “before” data and verified no change in usable capacity with this update.

Can always get the complete “after” data later.

Remaining unknowns:
1) Voltage at 100% compared to 77.8kWh pack
2) Performance constant/full capacity
3) ?

 

[EV Promoter]

Well at the least now we know that with this update the constant of 137 Wh/km is exactly the same btw US and EU.

But with the US batteries giving a range of 567km rather than 545km with LG's, which is rather annoying.

I'm getting direct indications by some acqueintance that the EU E3D, that should be fitted with Panasonic +77 kWh usable, so substantially larger than the 74,5 LGs, with this update are getting the same 545 km. Odd.
WRONG INFORMATION.

EDIT: different values for the E3D are coming from precise measurement with SMT: same range and probably same batteries of the US, after the update: 564km projected from SMT, 77,8 kWh nominal new.

Übersicht 2021 LR / P Batteriekapazität Fahrzeugschein

2nd EDIT: another E5D LG Chem got my same problem of not reaching the "Recharge complete" @100% and it seems from SMT that only the 98,6% of battery was used at 100%.

Übersicht 2021 LR / P Batteriekapazität Fahrzeugschein

The situation is becoming clearer, as Tesla's fraud of selling at the same price point to some customer the LG with +20km less range and 3,3 kWh less of capacity than the Panasonic.
Just the pure luck of a lottery decided which one you were getting.

 

[Korgmatose]

So what you are saying is that the EU M3 AWD are sold with both pana 77 and LG 74, but both are capped at the lowest rate to seem similar to the same market and not invoke any consumer laws, and the constant-changes are to mask that fact?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

EU E3D, that should be fitted with Panasonic +77 kWh usable, so substantially larger than the 74,5 LGs, with this update are getting the same 545 km. Odd.

But some people in Europe with Panasonics are seeing 77+kWh, right?

 

[EV Promoter]

So what you are saying is that the EU M3 AWD are sold with both pana 77 and LG 74, but both are capped at the lowest rate to seem similar to the same market and not invoke any consumer laws, and the constant-changes are to mask that fact?

According to the very last measurement, now the two version shows two different range values, 545 and 565 km (just updated my message) and we cannot invoke any law because Tesla does'nt declare capacity nor the battery maker.
Fraud.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

and the constant-changes are to mask that fact?

Constant is the same in all vehicles of same trim level with the latest update, AFAIK. 137Wh/rkm

If you don’t have the bigger capacity you will see it in the form of reduced rated range. Nothing is hidden.

 

[EV Promoter]

But some people in Europe with Panasonics are seeing 77+kWh, right?

NO, Corrected in the previous msg, it was a mistake. Probably the guy didn't update to 48.12.1

Added the link to the proper SMT data on updated E3D Panasonic 77,8 kWh, 564km ideal from SMT. From that link:

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

NO, Corrected in the previous msg, it was a mistake.

Ok.

So, yes, people with Panasonic in Europe do see 77+kWh. And the full range matching the US value, with the final constant. If I understand correctly.

Guess it remains to be seen whether they’ll ever unlock the LGs (or if the voltage readings even indicate they could be).

Personally I’d love to see some definitive battery labels to compare these two types of batteries in Europe, but I guess we are not going to get those.

 

[EV Promoter]

Ok.

So, yes, people with Panasonic in Europe do see 77+kWh. And the full range matching the US value, with the final constant. If I understand correctly.

Guess it remains to be seen whether they’ll ever unlock the LGs (or if the voltage readings even indicate they could be).

Personally I’d love to see some definitive battery labels to compare these two types of batteries in Europe, but I guess we are not going to get those.

Yes, we can conclude that:

- all cars, US and EU, with this update have the constant of 137 Wh/km.
- The EU cars E3D version with Panasonic batteries have a net 77,8 kWh (new) and same US range of 353 mi /567 km about.

- For the moment only in EU, Tesla have sold, asking the same money and hiding it to customers, cars with cheaper LG Chem coming from Nenjing, China, of smaller capacity of 3,3 kWh, less range of about 22 km, slower charging and identified by the homologation EU code E5D.

- Will Tesla increase safely voltage and capacity of the LG Chem in the future and take it at the least on par with the Panasonic? We hope so, because at the moment they can only be called Fraudsters.

@AlanSubie4Life i've tried to reach the label but my back doesn't allow the stretch. I should visit a shop and ask to remove the aeroshield and for the moment i can't say i have so much interest, things are pretty clear.

 

[Korgmatose]

What's weird is that I should not have an LG- battery according to the registration but see only 546 km...

 

[EV Promoter]

What's weird is that I should not have an LG- battery according to the registration but see only 546 km...

From your papers (E3D) and the pic of your label, it's pretty sure you have a Panasonic. So, there must be some reason why it does shows 546km but not that you an an LG. This is a big point.

If i'm correct, you didn't posted the energy screen (at a SOC say +60%) after the update: from that it can be checked if the costant is the old or the new one.
This is a the first check to do. Post it.

 

[wesdxccc]

Have I missed something, has anyone confirmed if the LG packs - which are believed to have less capacity - are or are not being sold in the US?

Lots of talk about these packs in Europe, but what evidence is there that we don't have them in the US as well? They're all coming off the same production line in Fremont I believe.

 

[Korgmatose]

From your papers (E3D) and the pic of your label, it's pretty sure you have a Panasonic. So, there must be some reason why it does shows 546km but not that you an an LG. This is a big point.

If i'm correct, you didn't posted the energy screen (at a SOC say +60%) after the update: from that it can be checked if the costant is the old or the new one.
This is a the first check to do. Post it.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

but what evidence is there that we don't have them in the US as well?

For the time being, absence of evidence is being used as evidence of absence.

What's weird is that I should not have an LG- battery according to the registration but see only 546 km...

Yes, this is a weird phenomenon. Maybe Tesla's hardware ID system has decided you have an LG battery, even though perhaps you don't. No idea how all these interlocks work.

View attachment 619806View attachment 619799

Remember, a single picture, with all three numbers, taken in distance display mode, is what is necessary for constant calculation.

 

[Korgmatose]

@AlanSubie4Life added displayed Range to the set. Taken at the same time in average range mode

 

[jaqueh]

Have I missed something, has anyone confirmed if the LG packs - which are believed to have less capacity - are or are not being sold in the US?

Lots of talk about these packs in Europe, but what evidence is there that we don't have them in the US as well? They're all coming off the same production line in Fremont I believe.

Cool you're waiting for your Model 3 too just like me! Welcome to the Tesla world where information is opaque and you'll never get a straight answer. I think it's best to assume the worst and determine if you'll be ok with it, and then decide if you want the car or not.

 

[TomaGo]

Hello,

With your data and those of the Germans guys I tried an image synthesis, tell me what you think.
All this is to be confirmed with the data coming from the new owners

Thomas

 

[Korgmatose]

So constant calculation is 377/546*198 ? = 136,71 ...

To be honest, this mess is getting a bit tiresome, and I wish now that I had not fallen for the Tesla "clearance sale" that they have thrown this year