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Tesla Model 3 82kWh battery pack confirmed by California Clean Fuel Reward website - Drive Tesla Canada
is there a way to find out the total battery capacity without tapping into the BMS?
MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc
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is there a way to find out the total battery capacity without tapping into the BMS?
Yes, when you are at 80% charge or higher, take a picture of your energy graph screen along with rated miles and percent on the battery icon (need to switch display setting to get both). Then post it here.
If you want a totally precise value, you will need Scan My Tesla or TM-Spy BMS data.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Clarification: Should have said “in the US” in my post. You may be right about 2020 EU Performance; I have no idea. In the US Performance 20” 2020 vehicles max out at 299 miles. You can switch to 18” in the wheel settings and it changes though.
We never saw the source here so it is kind of silly to argue over. I don’t even know what data we are arguing about I can’t even remember what in general we were arguing about on this one tbh. Lol.
In any case I think the report didn't even align with the European expected value exactly, for a new car? Didn't you expect 499/500km? That's not what was reported. The report was on the very outside edge where rounding error COULD have taken it to 499km, but it was unlikely. Plus there was no information of any use in this report, unfortunately. As discussed.
EDITED This entire section... since I had a chance to look closely at the picture. Poking away on my tiny phone in the morning, got thrown off by the "SMT Full Pack when new" number (which is just a read back of a hard-coded number associated with the pack and has little bearing on reality), rather than the other real number. Ignore the "SMT Full Pack when new" number! "Nominal Full Pack" is the key number.
Very interesting! This is about what I expected. (See below.) Capacity slightly lower than the EPA result of 80.8kWh. It always seems to work that way.
I still think we're on target for a degradation threshold of about 2kWh higher than the prior Model 3 packs. (About 79.6kWh.). What will be interesting is if they stretch this even further in the future!
Once the 315-mile range shows in the US Performance Model 3, we will have a constant of about 79.6kWh/315rmi = 253Wh/rmi (157Wh/rkm). We will see!
We just need that energy screen picture now! (The two pictures referenced in @ran349 post above.). Then we will know. It may not match the above number (yet!) if the 100% range does not yet match the EPA range of 315 miles.
I guess we will see but I don’t see the lottery here. I just see Performance and regular vehicles.
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TimothyHW3
Member
The only sure way is to charge to 100% and drive steadily at anywhere between 60-85mph to near 0% or until the car stops, then read "used kwh since last charge".
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
“0%” or “until the car stops” are two very different end points.
They would give results differing by ~4.5%!
“Until the car stops” would give the answer.
But the energy screen would give a good lower limit, and SMT would give the answer. Seems most accessible to just recommend the energy screen method.
Your proposed method drives us towards not getting useful data from anyone.
We’re not trying to discover pathological cases where the BMS capacity estimate is wrong, here.
Here is the full SMT Bat. data of the German Model 3 Performance Refresh:
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Here is the full SMT Bat. data of the German Model 3 Performance Refresh:
Definitely ignore that battery degradation number! That's not correct at all; the vehicle never had 82kWh of capacity. Is this your vehicle? If it is, could you pretty pretty please take those two pictures of the energy screen?
It looks to me like they haven't settled on the correct constant yet.
With these results, I would expect that Performance vehicles delivered in the US will show 308 rated miles rather than their final value of 315 rated miles. But the constant will show up at ~258Wh/rmi (160-161Wh/rkm). Rather than the final value of ~253Wh/rmi.
These are all assuming 79.6kWh for the degradation threshold - that may end up not being right. Maybe it'll be 80kWh, we will see. Just need those energy screen pictures and then we will know what that value is.
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Hi eivissa (lovely place), i'm following you and the others on TTforum but unfortunately with google translate. Thanks for you info and please add here the new info the forum is collecting!
In particular i would like to see the SMT screenshots for the LR E3D & E5D!
Here you go 
SMT Data of a Spanish Model 3 Long Range Refresh (E3D)
SMT Data of a German Model 3 Long Range Refresh (E5D)
SMT Data of a Spanish Model 3 Long Range Refresh (E3D)
SMT Data of a German Model 3 Long Range Refresh (E5D)
No, it is not my vehicle. I have offered to send my diagnostic equipment to the first model 3 performance refresh owners in Germany. One accepted, so I shipped him my gear and these are the numbers he got from his car today. Bare in mind that the battery was very cold and he hadn't driven and charged (only 2,3KW from the wall) the car much at that point.
If you are more precise about that energy screen reading I might be able to convince a german owner to get the pictures.
My new M3 Performance will be delivered after Christmas, then it will be much easier as I have SMT connected 24/7.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
First post here is an example: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data
It's really easy, but it's critical to do it at a high SoC (80% or above is best, 100% ideal but definitely not required).
And it's key to get the % AND the rated range in quick succession. Need four numbers:
%, Rated Range, recent efficiency, and projected range. This requires two pictures. Ideally in km (more accurate).
Probably doesn't matter much. I doubt we'll see numbers much higher than 80.2 to 80.5kWh full capacity (from SMT) from this new Performance battery for now even if they're warm. It may go up later. We'll see. Would be interesting to see much higher numbers right now but I don't think we will.
TimothyHW3
Member
Capacity when new is the value provided by the can bus and on the old batteries it was pretty close to reality(nominal full) when new. Only the lg and the new batteries seem to have bigger deviation. Might be just how they are built, with more top buffer.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yes, that was true for the older batteries. However, even the SMT people aren't sure what the "Full Pack when New" means. So whether it aligns or not, and whether it should be used to gauge degradation are open questions right now. I am not sure (perhaps you could comment), but it sounds like "Full Pack When New" is a single value for a given pack type (77.8 I think for the older packs?) - all people with SMT on older Teslas with that pack are seeing that read back? Is that correct?
If that's the case, it's clearly not a good reference for degradation (packs vary a bit on initial capacity, probably by 1kWh or maybe occasionally 2kWh!), and it may not be a good reference for what is the Tesla-determined max capacity of this new pack, either. It's just a rough value - but the fact that it has gone up 4kWh is about right for a 5% increase.
On the other hand, if it's an accurate representation of the pack full capability, it may give us a clue as to what is still "untapped" - it's possible that there is another 1.8kWh or so to be released at a future time when/if Tesla thinks it is safe. And that would not be a surprise given the ~5% capacity increase.
Also there was little reason to think that Tesla would immediately allow all 5% of the capacity increase for the brand new cell (risk!), and the EPA documents already told us that wasn't going to happen in this first round.
So no surprises so far. (Other than the weird two-pack issue in Europe for the smaller pack.)
I have described the task in our TFF Performance Refresh Drivers thread. Will keep you guys posted if we get some more data
The only thing I note, is that setting 60% in the app does NOT set 60% in the car. More like 61-63%, FWIW.
I got the EU M3 Performance to do a new set of notes. This time at 95 %.
first picture is of my request, the second is his reply. He notes that he has pictures.
He has 2021-refresh for sure, since he noted he has new headlights (that some of us don’t have) and a VIN-range of 827xxx.
first picture is of my request, the second is his reply. He notes that he has pictures.
He has 2021-refresh for sure, since he noted he has new headlights (that some of us don’t have) and a VIN-range of 827xxx.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Thanks! Not surprised by that - could not have the quoted numbers (original or new) make sense for a new 2021. Numbers work out about the same as prior calculations.
Degradation threshold: 80kWh-80.7kWh
(Since his is a brand new vehicle it may currently slightly exceed that capacity; SMT would probably read between 80.4 and 81kWh. No way to say exactly - we just know degradation will start to show once capacity drops below ~80kWh.)
We can get a more accurate idea on the degradation threshold once we know what Performance vehicles are maxing out at right now.
Vehicle constant: 162Wh/rkm (161.7Wh/rim)
So if the 100% charge of 2021 Performance vehicles is 497rkm, degradation threshold is:
~80.3kWh
As mentioned, I am expecting a constant adjustment which increases displayed range (they need to get to ~507rkm) with no impact on battery capacity. We’ll see. It’ll probably be in the Christmas present software update. For the US. The same may apply in Europe - not sure how they handle range display over there.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oops. I meant they could not make sense for 2020.
Stupid autocorrect. I meant rkm (rated km). Probably thought I hit I instead of K.
This is 260Wh/rmi. Therefore: On the energy screen the line will align exactly with the “rated” line at a recent efficiency of ~265Wh/mi and ~165Wh/km. For now. I expect that to change.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Hello,
Thanks a lot for these informations, i'm reading this topic everyday
did you find something about the battery sticker ? What is "BB" ?
Ideas for battery sticker picture method are here. No one has taken a picture this way yet. It is really quite easy with a modern phone camera and a bright flashlight! No disassembly required is my guess but that is TBD pending photos. Know nothing about “BB.”
Tesla confirms new 82 kWh battery in 2021 M3
Hopefully someone will post a picture soon. Important to note this is just a label. You can’t look at documentation and labels and use it to strictly define capacity. Certainly the 80+kWh label will indicate higher capacity. But if it says 82kWh that is just a nominal value - it does not imply it is exactly 82kWh. Just close to that value. Different values indicate differences in the underlying battery. But that is all we can say for now.
The best ways to determine capacity are the methods covered in this thread (Energy Screen & SMT for even more precision). Energy Consumption Screen is the most accessible method of course. It is really the only thing the Energy Consumption screen is useful for. It is not very useful for anything else (only Energy -> Trip is useful).
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