Sorry about the quality, this is just the video still frame since I had no idea where to point but got the PN anyway.
(P) 1104423-00 P as claimed by previous poster.
E3D in the registration (initial panasonic classification)
Variant BB
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MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc
- Thread starter EV Promoter
- Start date
Sorry about the quality, this is just the video still frame since I had no idea where to point but got the PN anyway.
(P) 1104423-00 P as claimed by previous poster.
E3D in the registration (initial panasonic classification)
Variant BB
I'm not familiar with Smt & which parameters are more reliable , just checking. Thanks!
I just got an update to 2020.48.10 on my US 2021 LR. The charge constant is the same...rated range extrapolated to 100% is currently 348 miles.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Patience...remember first that what we're talking about is just bookkeeping (it doesn't actually change your real-world range - you seem to have approximately (within 0.5kWh) the right amount of energy for a new vehicle...)! An increase in rated range doesn't necessarily mean an increase in range, especially if your energy does not change. We will see what happens with the "Christmas" update, if there is one. And it may take longer. The number on the SR+ on the website is still not EPA official. And the first Tesla test of the Performance they submitted to EPA was all messed up for AC charging efficiency. So we may need to wait for another round of testing before they finalize. Sometimes EPA documents are resubmitted. I haven't been paying close attention to the EPA site but that's where they would show up first.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
The previous picture (we don't know what vehicle it came from, but it is claimed to be an 82kWh vehicle) was also 1104423-00-P unless I am missing something.
Yours is most definitely a 2021 AWD with ~74.5kWh of capacity (currently made available, anyway) and it has the label 1104423-00-P.
So we (or at least I) can only say that some 2021 AWDs have the 1104423-00-P part. Whichever part that is. It's TBD which part number is in "82kWh" Performance vehicles. We need to have a battery label picture from someone roughly verified (via pictures of range or something) to be a Performance owner.\
Lots of possible explanations that I can think of for now. Just have to fill in the pieces.
Do you know by chance if this is the code of the pre-refresh Panasonic 78-79 kWh?
Now, after the SMT readings, the German forum is convinced that the E3D are fitted with the "old" Panasonic and the "new" with 80.X kWh are only fitted on the P. Which make sense.
On the Norwegian forum it seems that the LG- variant battery has had some display changes in range display on 2020.48.12
Kjørelengde
Kjørelengden er økt, slik at den mer nøyaktig gjenspeiler kapasiteten i batteriet.
Translated:
Range
Range has increased to better reflect the capacity of the battery.
Supposedly the reported 100% range went from 535 to 546Kjørelengden er økt, slik at den mer nøyaktig gjenspeiler kapasiteten i batteriet.
Translated:
Range
Range has increased to better reflect the capacity of the battery.
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@Korgmatose
I've just received the 2020.48.10. I'll do a 100% charge when i get the 48.12
Thanks for informing us, poor LG owners
I've just received the 2020.48.10. I'll do a 100% charge when i get the 48.12
Thanks for informing us, poor LG owners
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Why don't they just take pictures of their labels and get something more definitive? It's no surprise at all that the higher capacity batteries are fitted on the P - we've known that would likely be the case since October. Only question is: what is the part number (I'm not sure I believe the picture above, allegedly from a Performance, is from a Performance - I don't know anything about the provenance of the picture)!
I don't know what the part number of the prior 2020 AWD was. I should have taken a picture of my (2018) battery label long ago when I had the bottom aero shield off. As it is, because the older 2018 labels were structured differently, the picture I am asking others to take won't work for mine (won't be able to see the part number). I believe I probably can get a picture of the part number if I try harder though. Just have to reach in further. But my picture isn't relevant here...it's a 2018!
If we want to answer this question, we need new owners to take their pictures. We now know what the situation is for the 74.5kWh pack (it's 1104423-00-P). From @Korgmatose's picture.
Previously, part numbers were different, of course. Here are a couple of really old pack pictures, from eBay (a RWD, and a 2018 AWD I think - I would think this would mean mine is a 4422 pack as well - but no idea what it was in 2020):
@Korgmatose
I've just received the 2020.48.10. I'll do a 100% charge when i get the 48.12
Thanks for informing us, poor LG owners
You guys shouldn't need to charge to 100%. Just extrapolate from 90%. For rough estimations like this that should be fine. This increase in available capacity is not a surprise, of course. If I had to guess, it'll keep on increasing until the capacity nearly matches the original Panasonic cells. But we'll see.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
To be clear, when you do get the update, if you see the range increase, be sure to check that the energy screen constant is the same. You can't tell whether you actually have more energy available until you check the energy screen and also quote the SoC. For all we know, they just adjusted the constant down with this update (I do expect something like 136-137Wh/rkm eventually (77.6kWh/(353rmi*1.609rkm/rmi), but it's impossible to say right now what it will settle at, since we don't know the degradation threshold for certain). Interestingly, 136.5Wh/rkm would give 546rkm out of a 74.5kWh battery. So...check that energy screen if you see your rated range change.
Alan, you're doing a bit of confusion:
- My picture with 1104423-00-P is coming directly from a customer of the German forum with a AWD code E3D.
- Korgmatose posted his picture, same 1104423-00-P, and wrote he have an AWD code E3D.
So, one thing is clear, the Panasonic in EU 2021 M3 (code E3D) have that code, 1104423-00-P, nothing to do with the Performance.
And if you missed it, E5D from EU homologation documents, it's with no other doubts an LG Chem, the one fitted by springtime in the MIC Long Range RWD.
By exclusion, E3D relates to Panasonic battery.
If the car is an AWD, the SMT readings shown the same values of the old AWD M3s.
The Performances in EU have all the E3D codes but SMT is showing the 80.8 kWh value, so perhaps the New Panasonic.
Here the homologation EU document:
I'll do a dedicated new thread to show with links and documents how Tesla is giving in EU, for the same price and no notice to customers, the inferior LG Chem or the Panasonic, as a lottery, damaging us, customers with the LG Chem, particularly on reselling the car.
This is bad cheating and unfair commercial practice, that cannot be sued just because there's no declaration of the capacity or battery brand.
And i know which journalist to choose to explain carefully the thing.
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TimothyHW3
Active Member
Do you have an AWD or P?
And can you link to the norwegian forum and maybe ask them what the 100% on the LG batteries show in km when charged to 100% (not the app)? I think Tesla might be cheating a bit here since LGs have 3kWh less than the Panasonic, they can't have the same range unless Tesla moves the constant line down.
Strange, that phrase (norwegian language) is a phrase completely taken from the typical release note wording from Tesla, but if you go on the release note of the 2020.48.12, there's no mention of it.
2020.48.12 Official Tesla Software Update | Teslascope
Fishy.
I have a "regular" NON-P LR AWD.
2020.48 is the source, perhaps this only applies in the changelog for a particular variant of cars with the battery in question? I have no other source than the forum members saying. Asked for screenshots of the relase notes.
I was just aking you a link to the source, thanks
Indeed, it could be related just to the LG E5D.
TimothyHW3
Active Member
Maybe they can also say if they have the E5D or E3D model. If they increased the E5D range it can only be through moving the goal post - the constant lines, which will be cheating. No other way to increate the range on a car that has 3kWh to 6kWh less capacity thatn the next one with the same capacity and same rated range.
Also, would be great if you can ask the guy to post screensthots from the energy tab and what the straight line says in Wh/km - where the two lines match roughly and also show the battery rated range in km on top (he has to change the tab to average, not actual and also switch to km not %)
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I may well be confused, but this post is the source of that confusion:
You quoted this picture, but you claim it is an "82kWh" battery. I don't think there is any evidence (yet) that the "3" LR battery in the code sheet you provided is always the same capacity battery. The 3 could just indicate that it is not an SR battery, not an LG battery, and not a CATL battery. There's no REQUIREMENT that they provide a different code for batteries with two different capacities, I don't think. I agree it would be weird for it to not be unique...but it might not be.
If it is strictly a unique code (and that's an if, not a given), that would mean that the 1104423-00-P battery MUST be a nominal 82kWh battery, and in the vehicles that are AWD (non-P) with ~77+kWh available, it is simply locked out. But this would probably be visible in these vehicles by charging to 100% and looking at the regen dots (assuming a top lock, which seems likely).
Something to look at to try to piece together the picture! Just need to find someone with such an AWD (non-P) vehicle!
I still think we need more battery label pictures from AWD and P vehicles to understand the whole picture, rather than relying on paper documentation (which is notoriously unreliable).
I think you could be right about the potential difference, but I think right now the picture is unclear. I hope you are wrong and Tesla roughly aligns the capacities in future, for you and for others. For now, for sure, there are some vehicles with less capacity.
The ones @Korgmatose has posted indicate ~534rkm as I recall. For his ~74.5kWh battery. It does get confusing who reports what though, so maybe I am not remembering correctly.
They may well move the constant lines if the range increases, as mentioned a few posts above. Something to keep an eye out for if a future software update gives a range increase. However, remember there is MAYBE some evidence that the LG is not fully charged at 100% based on the regen dots. So I don't think it's a done deal that ~74.5kWh is the maximum for that battery. Again, there may be safety concerns and Tesla may be taking a phased approach here. We'll see. Changes here will probably be measured on the scale of months though, not days.
This is all getting very confusing. We mostly just need more pictures (Energy Screen, SMT, and battery label) and less talk to help fill in the picture!
I think by now you should know that "82 kWh" & "77 kWh" are the number reported on the German papers, that allowed us to understand there were 2 different batteries in the AWD 2021.
Those numbers clearly doesn't relates to effective capacity, and we did compensated with the SMT readings that has been given reading directly on the 2 type of cars, 74 kWh for the E5D (the "77") , 77,7 kWh for the E3D (the so-called "82 kWh").
But you still are asking what you have already, we don't need anymore data on AWD. never mind.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I'm not quibbling, but I haven't see what you are talking about summarized all in one place. I'm not in Europe, so I don't follow all the details, and I'm not looking in other forums. But I got the impression there were THREE different situations, just from this thread:
1) Performance - ~82kWh (verified as ~80.3kWh per this thread via SMT). (this would correspond to the E3D according to you, I think)
2) AWD - ~77.5kWh based on energy screen & SMT. (What does this correspond to?) (According to this post, it's an E3D: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data)
3) AWD - ~74.5kWh based on energy screen, and SMT (this would correspond to the E5D according to you (and others))
So, what gives? Are there two different batteries, or three different batteries? That's all I am asking.
Do we have pictures of the battery labels for all 3 of these situations??? I haven't seen them. We just need a clear correspondence.
Also what I mentioned: regen behavior at 100% (or all at 95% even) would also be useful to have...for all three situations. (This is difficult to standardize due to different temperatures of course.)
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TimothyHW3
Active Member
There are 3 batteries at the moment, not 2.
1) E5D LG ones with nominal full when new at 74.5 (77 listed in the papers, mostly brick protection at the bottom)
2) E3D Panasonic with 77.8 nominal full, on papers listed as 79kWh, old batteries for all cars since 2018.
3) E3D Panasonic in the performance cars only - 81kWh nominal full, listed as 82kWh. A new battery.
No evidence of 82kWh for the AWD model yet.
AWD Panasonic cars show about 545km while full
AWD LG show 535km when full
Ps show 500km when full.
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