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MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

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I've been reading through this thread for a few days now trying to get more info on batteries after ordering my 2021 M3 LR and I have to say, you guys are damn amazing lol. This is some intense data and analysis. Was really fun to read through it all and getting a pretty solid understanding of how my battery might work. Also glad to see that my VIN is most likely going to be a 82 kWh battery.
 
Yes, I guess thats the main explanation for my NFP Values.

I had NFP = 80.1kWh for six weeks.
Had 80.6 which topped 81kWh when I first connected SMT at about 1000km. After about one week I saw 80.1kWh and that was stable for six weeks. Then it started to climb about 0.1 each day or so until 81.4kWh.

This was about the same time as I reduced the daily charging scedule to 60% from first 80 to 70%. The 60% charge was lowered to about 55-56% before the NFP climbed really high.

If I had kept 80% I guess it would have stayed much lower.
What was your constant when you first hooked up SMT with a NFP of 80.6 or so?

I think your current value seems to be about 160.9 Wh/km or 259 Wh/mi.
At 80.6 kWh, you should have been around 158.5 Wh/km or 255 Wh/mi, if the variable constant theory is valid.
Do you have any of those old SMT screen shots with the lower NFP?
 
What was your constant when you first hooked up SMT with a NFP of 80.6 or so?

I think your current value seems to be about 160.9 Wh/km or 259 Wh/mi.
At 80.6 kWh, you should have been around 158.5 Wh/km or 255 Wh/mi, if the variable constant theory is valid.
Do you have any of those old SMT screen shots with the lower NFP?
Yeah, here is one:


He doesn't show what SMT says his rated km are (I'd definitely prefer to see this from the screen in the car or SMT, but oh well), but the SOC is there (94.7%) and that is equivalent in this particular case.

73kWh (Usable) / 482rkm / 0.955 = 158.6Wh/km

If he had somehow kept his current constant that would have implied 475rkm at 94.7% which would be 501.5rkm at 100%, and he would have said something about that if that were the case. He's never seen rated mile reduction AFAIK.

Well, actually he said a little later that his car showed 500km when full - but remember that was before they updated the constant to give him 315 miles instead of 310 miles (this was an overnight jump around February 11th 2021 that led to no difference in the energy screen product calculations - the threshold was unchanged, just the constant adjusted). So that's the same as 508km/509km. It actually means his constant was 161Wh/km back then - but that was with a pack capacity equal to the threshold, so it would have been 158.6Wh/km with the new constant. And it would have been 163Wh/km with a 81.5kWh capacity probably, under the old constant regime. Anyway you can review his posts. I realize that if you haven't been following along assiduously, it all seems a bit hand-wavy and sketchy.


Here, this post should make you feel better (unfortunately he just states the NFP but no screen capture, but he says it was 80.6kWh, and he confirmed it when I asked a couple posts later):


508km max range (according to SMT). 80.6kWh NFP. Post constant update via software. QED? 😂
 
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I just received my car today and I also asked for the COC.

It looks like the car (VIN 961xxx with manufacturing date on 14th of May) is the E3LD version (new 82kw Panasonic battery), however it's strange that "Maximum power" is left out (you can see it's blank). Why might that be?

Also, no major panel gaps or any issues at all for now.
 

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Here, this post should make you feel better (unfortunately he just states the NFP but no screen capture, but he says it was 80.6kWh, and he confirmed it when I asked a couple posts later):


508km max range (according to SMT). 80.6kWh NFP. Post constant update via software. QED? 😂
The screenshots were all missing important data to conclude anything, but he did state that he had 80.6 and 508 km. That is definitely different than what he shows now.
I wonder if his rated line on the energy graph changed when he was first updated and saw 508 km?
 
I wonder if his rated line on the energy graph changed when he was first updated and saw 508 km?

It certainly did. I think if you dig through this thread you'll find it documented. The line moved from ~164Wh/km to ~162Wh/km (or so). As usual ~3Wh/km above the actual constant used on the energy screens.

You can see in this post (post-update to 508/509km) he's substantially below the solid line with a dotted line position at 158Wh/km, while the projected range and rated km match as expected - dotted line would be right on top at 161Wh/km or 162Wh/km (and the projected range and rated km will mismatch of course). If you look prior to February you can find the other line position, probably (if someone drove to it, which I don't recall, but I really have no doubt that it moved (otherwise the math wouldn't work out)).


The screenshots were all missing important data to conclude anything, but he did state that he had 80.6 and 508 km. That is definitely different than what he shows now.

Yep, but at least he confirmed that NFP (twice) and the SMT range info always appears to match the car. Preponderance of the evidence... I think if you go back through all the detailed captures here you may be able to find additional supporting evidence, from him or other users, but only the recent posts have really dialed in on concurrent captures from SMT and the vehicle (which removes all the ambiguity), I believe. But I basically forget everything that has been posted, so I might be forgetting some key confirmatory data previously posted with lower NFP closer to 80.6kWH + information from the car with rated range (still) of 508/509km.

I guess I suffer from confirmation bias, but I've thought it worked this way for a long time and I've never seen any contradictory evidence, so I guess I'm convinced now, especially with the recent data. How else would it work, is the question? I don't know how else to explain all the observations...

Here's one pre-update we previously discussed (so this is 80.6kWh = 500rkm), showing capacity loss and the baseline constant (you can see he's below the line still at 162Wh/km as you'd expect, since it is at 164/165Wh/km).

 
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What was your constant when you first hooked up SMT with a NFP of 80.6 or so?

I think your current value seems to be about 160.9 Wh/km or 259 Wh/mi.
At 80.6 kWh, you should have been around 158.5 Wh/km or 255 Wh/mi, if the variable constant theory is valid.
Do you have any of those old SMT screen shots with the lower NFP?

Dont have all screen dumps but heres 80.4 and 507km:F2967B14-0D58-4DA7-92FA-F2F003F2DA13.jpeg54D301C1-2E6A-49C1-AF72-AEB7AE084AB2.jpeg

And a few days later:

9875D7C6-1D85-4F8C-B871-581622EB7046.jpeg9F2D981D-F4DB-4D58-AA0E-96E227C0929A.jpeg
 
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I guess I suffer from confirmation bias, but I've thought it worked this way for a long time and I've never seen any contradictory evidence, so I guess I'm convinced now, especially with the recent data. How else would it work, is the question? I don't know how else to explain all the observations...
I guess for me I had not seen enough solid evidence or maybe I was just not paying close enough attention, to think it had to be anything other than a fixed constant change by Tesla, which they clearly implement on many occasions.

But I think that AAKEE's results make it hard to dispute the variable constant theory. "Variable constant"- what a beautiful oxymoron!
Great job on figuring that one out!

I think it's a little bit sneaky on Tesla's part, but so is the fact of including the buffer in the range calculation, such that you don't achieve rated range even when driving at the rated efficiency.
 
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"Variable constant"- what a beautiful oxymoron!
Haha. Yeah, unfortunate; might have to rework the terminology a bit! “Piecewise-defined value which is constant below a certain threshold” does not have a good ring to it. At least when your full pack capacity is below the degradation threshold it is still a constant...and that is when people start to care.

It’s a bit of a mystery how much of an effect this has had over time. In 2018/2019 I think it had some effect. But, I think in 2020 most vehicles shipped with capacity very close to the threshold, so it was of minimal impact. But now with the 82kWh packs (and broader use of SMT, etc.) we are seeing vehicles with vast differences between the threshold and their initial full pack capacity, so the expansion of the energy in each rated mile is now very obvious - so obvious it became obvious to everyone how it works.
 
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It's 6 or 7 weeks I charge to 60% my 2021 P, a day yes a and a day not...I'm still at 79.6kWh. LOL my car is special..
Is there a place where to read a code on my European (Italy) battery? (just to see if Italian batteries are the same ast the scandinavian/germany ones).
 
It's 6 or 7 weeks I charge to 60% my 2021 P, a day yes a and a day not...I'm still at 79.6kWh. LOL my car is special..
Is there a place where to read a code on my European (Italy) battery? (just to see if Italian batteries are the same ast the scandinavian/germany ones).

https://youtu.be/_MawITCEg6U 7

  • First I filmed between the bottom cover (lower aero cover) and the lower control arm. Can see the sticker but the wiring harness is in the way. (6-20 seconds in the attached video)
  • Next I go just above the control arm, and I try to swivel and reposition the camera several times. Spend 5+ seconds for each angle to let the autofocus do its magic.
  • Wheel turned all the way to the left, go in behind the RIGHT front wheel.
  • I’m holding the phone in portrait mode, barely need to tilt it to move around.
  • You can see on the screen when you get above the arm, but I don’t think you can see the screen while the camera is pointed at the sticker.
  • Start with the phone vertical, screen turned directly toward the tire/right side of the car.
  • I would say tilt the phone about 15-20 degrees to the left, swivel the screen slight toward the front of the car, and angle the camera a bit backwards (away from you)
  • LG Chem 77KWH (74.5) → 1522312-##-#
  • Panasonic 79KWH (77.8) → 1104423-00-P
  • Panasonic 82KWH (82.1) → 1104423-00-T / 1104423-0L-P
 
It's 6 or 7 weeks I charge to 60% my 2021 P, a day yes a and a day not...I'm still at 79.6kWh. LOL my car is special..
What about letting the SOC get down to 20% or less, charge once to 90%(not below 90% because balancing only happens at 90% or more) and let it sit for a couple if hours(2-3), then charge to 80 or 70% the next time, and decrease the charge level by 10% or so until 60% is reached? After this continue to charge to 60%( or between 50 and 60%) and be a little patient…

My reason for thinking like this is that I did charge to 80% during coldest winter and then step by step reduced the charging level, after this my NFP rocketed up.
And, when it reached 81.4 it was rock solid, did not change at all when I kept charging to 56%.
Maybe yore stuck at a lower NFP for the same reason my stuck( but at a lower level than me).
 
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12 days of charging to 60% (everyday or every second day) now and the capacity just won't stop climbing 🙂

After over five months of 80,4kWh it reached 81,5kWh today. I really wonder when it stops. From experience there is an extra 0,5kWh on top, when charging to charge complete.
View attachment 672964
12 days....
It's 5 weeks I do 60% charge and my battery still at 79,6 kWh (sometimes 79,5 sometimes 79,4 sometimes 79,7)
My range on SMT varies fro 501 to 503.
I tried also to do the 94% (starting from 10%) charge and let it sleep at 91%.
It stays at 79,5-79,6
Probably an Unlucky Battery (a second choice).
Unbalance is perfect at max 4-6 mV
 
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12 days of charging to 60% (everyday or every second day) now and the capacity just won't stop climbing 🙂

After over five months of 80,4kWh it reached 81,5kWh today. I really wonder when it stops. From experience there is an extra 0,5kWh on top, when charging to charge complete.
Did you see any further rise?

For me it topped 81.5 briefly( on two 100% charges) but 81.4 was steady both before and after for a long time.
 
Did you see any further rise?

For me it topped 81.5 briefly( on two 100% charges) but 81.4 was steady both before and after for a long time.
No, 81.5kWh was the peak. The moment I charged higher than 60%, the Nominal Full Pack went back down. If I kept this charging habbit for longer, the capacity might have been more stable.

3ae2f475af19a43c3d1477711b77f34739b8f6d8.png


I couldn't continue with the test, as I have sold the Q4/2020 Performance for a Q2/2021 Performance, which I picked up today.
The tests will continue on this one, though ;-)
 
No, 81.5kWh was the peak. The moment I charged higher than 60%, the Nominal Full Pack went back down. If I kept this charging habbit for longer, the capacity might have been more stable.

3ae2f475af19a43c3d1477711b77f34739b8f6d8.png


I couldn't continue with the test, as I have sold the Q4/2020 Performance for a Q2/2021 Performance, which I picked up today.
The tests will continue on this one, though ;-)
WOW, let us know the readings on SMT on the FRESH new car!