MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[eivissa]

I wonder why the Europe/UK LG/capped Panasonic never showed even 353 miles (the advertised epa at the time) then? Not sure what’s changed so that they are advertising 360 miles with a 75kwh battery? Although advertised and what ends up being displayed on the screen are two different things I guess

That question has actually been explained in this very thead. Several times...

The EPA range of 353 miles is based on an unrestricted Panasonic battery with 77,1-77,8 kWh. The European Pansonic is, as you mention restricted by about 3%, so it will never show more then 97% of the EPA range...because of calibration and degradation usually less.

 

[Jibjab]

That question has actually been explained in this very thead. Several times...

The EPA range of 353 miles is based on an unrestricted Panasonic battery with 77,1-77,8 kWh. The European Pansonic is, as you mention restricted by about 3%, so it will never show more then 97% of the EPA range...because of calibration and degradation usually less.

So the displayed vs advertised will be even more adrift for the cars arriving from China then, fair enough.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Not sure what’s changed so that they are advertising 360 miles with a 75kwh battery?

WLTP miles. Not EPA. Not the same.

even 353 miles (the advertised epa at the time)

In Europe they do not have to make the EPA energy available. They only have to provide what the WLTP test was done with. That was accomplished with about 75kWh of energy apparently.

But they still display EPA rated miles (just a measurement of energy displayed in units of EPA “miles”, not a display of distance). This energy display is consistent with the 75kWh expected.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The displayed energy (denominated in EPA miles/km units of energy) will generally match or exceed the stated results for the certification entity of the country where the vehicle is delivered.

Remember, it is just a display of energy, not range.

 

[TimothyHW3]

Can 580km/360 miles be extracted from only 75kwh?

Surely, if you drive it at below 130Wh/km on one go. Or in other words drive around 7-8 hours...

 

[eivissa]

Small heads-up:

E5LD LG 82kWh NMC battery pack incoming!

 

[thinger]

Bjorn was testing Model 3 LR 2021. Seems that has usaged battery is only 76kwh. Nominal is 79.6kwh.

If anyone is interested in these tests.

 

[eivissa]

Bjorn was testing Model 3 LR 2021. Seems that has usaged battery is only 76kwh. Nominal is 79.6kwh.

If anyone is interested in these tests.

Only takeaway for me was, that the battery wasn't run in properly yet. He only got to 80.1 usable remaining and it was interesting to see that the smaller LG LR is 40kg heavier.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Bjorn was testing Model 3 LR 2021. Seems that has usaged battery is only 76kwh. Nominal is 79.6kwh.

If anyone is interested in these tests.

Yeah, seems like exactly what you would expect from such a test. 80.1kWh, 76.5kWh usable as expected. As expected, the trip meter indicated ~75.8kWh used for 100% (it went from ~101% to 1%) - about 99% of 76.5kWh, as usual - this 1% fudge factor is always a bit variable of course.

 

[TimothyHW3]

He also did a V3 Supercharger test in his live video,if anyone cares to compare it, it seemed not quite optimal as it dropped below 200kW around 25% or so. Took him about 45 Minutes to 90%(but 6kWh more than hos last car).

It seems the charging is a little slower, but not much couple of minutes.

If you factor in the 6% difference an take higher SOC%, it took about 7-8 minutes to charge 6kWh on the old car so the difference is about 1-2 minutes to 90%. Which could easily be charger or temperature variation. I bet 100$ that he will not factor in the 6kWh difference in his comparison video and just claim the new battery is slower ...

 

[Ofarlig]

He also did a V3 Supercharger test in his live video,if anyone cares to compare it, it seemed not quite optimal as it dropped below 200kW around 25% or so. Took him about 45 Minutes to 90%(but 6kWh more than hos last car).

It seems the charging is a little slower, but not much couple of minutes.

If you factor in the 6% difference an take higher SOC%, it took about 7-8 minutes to charge 6kWh on the old car so the difference is about 1-2 minutes to 90%. Which could easily be charger or temperature variation. I bet 100$ that he will not factor in the 6kWh difference in his comparison video and just claim the new battery is slower ...

Most of his tests leave a lot to wish for really, and most of the times his “conclusions” are not supported by the data he himself has presented. But, it is worth watching because as you did we can get data and do our own analysis on it.

 

[AAKEE]

He also did a V3 Supercharger test in his live video,if anyone cares to compare it, it seemed not quite optimal as it dropped below 200kW around 25% or so. Took him about 45 Minutes to 90%(but 6kWh more than hos last car).

My M3P with the 2170L did also drop below 200kW at about 25%.

I guess theres a little more internal resistance in the 2170L, maybe due to the low cobalt content, than in the old 2170 cell.
probably that that also cause low power at low SOC, specially when the battery is cold.

 

[TimothyHW3]

Ok so he posted the video now and I think I won the bet with myself.
He didn't factor in kWh difference, he said the old one/2019 charged way faster(it was about 2 mins in kWh to about 50kWh and about 3-4 mins to about 67kWh as predicted)

And he for some reason lists this 2019 as 80kWh...wtf... To top it up with the fact that he doesn't use the buffer on the Teslas("I guess it has some buffer, whatever, we don't use this one"...sure) in his range tests, but tests the other cars until you see the turtle(meaning almost no kWh available) - he is just becoming a joke nowadays, at least in terms of Tesla knowledge.

 

[emmz0r]

My M3P with the 2170L did also drop below 200kW at about 25%.

I guess theres a little more internal resistance in the 2170L, maybe due to the low cobalt content, than in the old 2170 cell.
probably that that also cause low power at low SOC, specially when the battery is cold.

Hope it's not a physical limitation, but it doesn't look good. They should have have unlocked it by now... My M3P 2021 still charges slow compared to 2019 tesla.

Ok so he posted the video now and I think I won the bet with myself.
He didn't factor in kWh difference, he said the old one/2019 charged way faster(it was about 2 mins in kWh to about 50kWh and about 3-4 mins to about 67kWh as predicted)

Still charges slower tho...

 

[eivissa]

V18 is online...

-New 5,0Ah LG cells -> Should be a simila 82kWh pack. Certified currently only for the Long Range.
-New Accelerator pedal, which finally might be physically insulated from the brake pedal, so Auto Hold is not noticed with a kick anymore.
-R138 AVAS approval.
-Active hood? Is this pedestrian protection or an Automatic Frunk incoming? The latter would be nice!

 

[panpan1]

Regarding the new batteries, are these for China/Europe only or also for US?

 

[eivissa]

Regarding the new batteries, are these for China/Europe only or also for US?

I think the new LG pack was just a necessary development to counter with a competitive battery for the Asian market.

Europe will probably get a mix of US and China cars until GF4 in Berlin is up and running. European customers are actually very eager to get the China made quality and if those cars now come with a competitive battery, that sounds like the best of all worlds until we get the German made cars.

 

[AAKEE]

My M3P has started to step up the NFP. After a week with stable 55-60% charge it seems to climb about 0.1kWh/day. Its not that warm anymore, about 25 degrees top instead of the 30. Dunno if thatsa the reason. I will go for some holiday trips soon so I guess the NFP-climb will not hit the top before I charge full and leave home. On the other hand, it will be really interresting to se the whereabouts of the capacity from this lower NFP situation.

 

[Intervention]

Have about 1500 miles on my Model 3 Long Range.

About 2 weeks ago, I did have it charged to 100%, and it showed 355 miles.

Last night I took it on a roadtrip to the casino. Just over 255 miles with 3 passengers and avg speeds of 80-82 on the highway.

Used up just about 89% of the battery to get the 255 miles

Was surprised to not see a higher kWh than 65. Maybe I'm not understabding the calculation correctly

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Have about 1500 miles on my Model 3 Long Range.

About 2 weeks ago, I did have it charged to 100%, and it showed 355 miles.

Last night I took it on a roadtrip to the casino. Just over 255 miles with 3 passengers and avg speeds of 80-82 on the highway.

Used up just about 89% of the battery to get the 255 miles

Was surprised to not see a higher kWh than 65. Maybe I'm not understabding the calculation correctly

How long did you stop for on the trip?

You should see (355rmi-26rmi)*220Wh/rmi*0.955*0.99 = 67.8kWh

But energy used when parked is not counted.