MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[eivissa]

Thanks, 580 km = 360 miles, that tallies with the table you posted previously. Just wanted to confirm the rest of Europe is in the same boat as the UK right now.

My delivery has been pushed back to September (because I have my current Model 3 until then) and then I'll need to make a decision on what to do. I may look at renting a car for a few months until I'm sure new deliveries to the UK have the E5LD.

That sounds like a great plan to me.
I believe that, as soon as the M50 LG cells are going into the new LR as E5LD you will see the range increase in the UK as well. Don't expect to see the equivalent of 614km though. That is the range of the E3LD Panasonic Long Range. A new WLTP run has been done for E5LD with the new rear motor. It is possible that an even higher WLTP will show up in Q4, but at least 614km.

 

[AAKEE]

Setting aside the nonlinearity of the discharge curve, isn’t it more like 1%?

1V = 1000mV (very roughly; it’s actually a bit more) from min to max SOC. So 10mV would be 1%?

Yes, absolutely. My bad. I was meanimg to say that 1mV = 0.1%, and then I got it wrong after that.
Good catch to find the failt and correct it

 

[Ylannl]

Hopefully I hear back soon from their technician.

Today I was told that one of the front bricks may have an imbalance, they could analyse this after a 100% charge. Tesla wants to do a SW reset for that brick if I understood correctly. Could be done remotely, but they prefer to do it in the SeC because of past experiences so they will book an appointment for me.

I did also gain range/capacity according to SMT. I am now at 512 km Full Rated Range and 70kWh Nominal Full Pack. The increases mostly happened after ~1h+ highway drives and full charges from a low (<5%) SOC. I also let the car sit at various SoCs between 20 and 60% last week
Last weekend I did a slowcharge from 0% (just under 3.2V on the cells) to 100% at 3kW, this was also a recommendation from Tesla. The charge took 27-28 hours, so close to 80kWh added (minus charging losses). I saw cell imbalances between 4 and 12 mV in SMT. The CAC values also increased (200 min, 208 avg, 209 max [Ah]).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I did also gain range/capacity according to SMT. I am now at 512 km Full Rated Range and 70kWh Nominal Full Pack. The increases mostly happened after ~1h+ highway drives and full charges from a low (<5%) SOC. I also let the car sit at various SoCs between 20 and 60% last week

Good to hear all the details. Thanks.

Looks like it is entirely possible that the BMS was just really confused and it is gradually re-estimating its way back to the correct capacity (whatever that is). I suppose the reset will speed the process though eventually it seems like it might get there itself. They presumably only allow a certain rate of CAC adjustments unless a serious fault is detected.

One of the rare occasions where I have actually seen a huge recovery with these methods (you now have gained 10kWh). But I guess that was more likely with a new car and a clearly messed up BMS.

That being said, you’re only halfway there…so at the moment everyone here was half right so far. Haha.

Definitely let us know what the final steady state value is! After the reset maybe it will go to 80kWh, but even then you’ll have to wait and see how it settles.

 

[Ylannl]

One of the rare occasions where I have actually seen a huge recovery with these methods (you now have gained 10kWh). But I guess that was more likely with a new car and a clearly messed up BMS.

Yes, mobile ranger today told me he had rarely seen such issues with Model 3 and when it did happen it was mostly software issues.

 

[slowandwrong]

New member and have been speed reading the excellent information provided regarding present and upcoming Tesla tec.

I have ordered a model 3 performance with delivery date August and according to the Tesla rep no information regarding the battery provider is allowed to be shared. They could share that al model 3 performance for delivery to Sweden in august/sep are from Shanghai plant and presumably then the pack will then be the LG Chem NMC 82 Kwh pack like eivissa chart on page 91 predicted.

Have not seen any direct comparisons between the 82 Panasonic NCA Pack vs the LG Chem NMC pack to see the pro and cons and if someone has any info regarding this it will be appreciated.

 

[tezlam3]

so is charging to 80% still best practice or is it 60%?

 

[eivissa]

according to the Tesla rep no information regarding the battery provider is allowed to be shared

So, they say they are not allowed to share this information, while they obviously shared exactly that information?

They could share that al model 3 performance for delivery to Sweden in august/sep are from Shanghai plant

That is correct. Easily identified by the first three VIN letters "LRW"

presumably then the pack will then be the LG Chem NMC 82 Kwh

No, the Performance is not certified for that pack. You will get the E3LD Panasonic 82kWh.

Have not seen any direct comparisons between the 82 Panasonic NCA Pack vs the LG Chem NMC pack to see the pro and cons and if someone has any info regarding this it will be appreciated.

You havent seen any, because this new LG pack is still pretty unknown. We know it suppesedly has NMC(A) chemistry, 5,0Ah per cell, LG M50 cells and at least 80kWh. No charging curve, which would be very interesting.

 

[Dave EV]

so is charging to 80% still best practice or is it 60%?

For longest life? Cycle it between 20% and the lowest SOC that you are comfortable with - so if 60% is enough, then do that.

For maximum acceleration performance, you'll need higher SOC - 90% would be recommended, though personally I would still suggest 80-85% as in somewhat cooler weather, regen braking is reduced at 90% from 80%.

 

[eivissa]

V19 (3rd of August 20201) has been released... As expected it now includes the Model Y.

• Model 3 LR E5LD WLTP 614km -> Identical with the E3LD Panasonic.
• Model 3 SR+ E6LD WLTP 491km -> LFP 60kWh as expected earlier.
• Model 3 LR RWD E5CR WLTP 601km -> Introduced back in Q4/2020, but never released to the public. I guess a bit pointless anyway...
• No technical changes to the Model 3 described, but he had some in V18, so this one was mainly about Model Y.

Model Y Data can be found here:

Model Y European Certification Documents / Technical Data

This is V19 of the Model 3 Type Certificate for the EU. Since V19 it includes the Model Y, so I thought you might be interested to have a look at the data. Certified Variants: Model Y LR / LG Chem 75kWh NMC Model Y LR / LG Chem 82kWh NCMA Model Y P / LG Chem 82kWh NCMA Model Y SR+ /...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[grzywek]

Hi, any chance the old discounted M3 LR with E5CD that are now on ships beeing delivered to Europe will have better range than 580 km because of the new drive unit? I still cannot decide wheter I should accept the delivery or wait till December for Q4 deliveries..

 

[eivissa]

Hi, any chance the old discounted M3 LR with E5CD that are now on ships beeing delivered to Europe will have better range than 580 km because of the new drive unit?

Very unlikely.

• Pre-Refresh LR had 560km/77,8kWh
• Refresh LR has 580km/75,0kWh
• -> That range increase was already quite a stretch...
• I think that WLTP was really on the edge with a golden sample of the LG pack that could reach 75,9kWh.
• Also the newly tested E5LD had the new drive unit and it got the same 614km as the E3LD with the old DU.
• Though both 82kWh packs could get more range I beleive, but Tesla didnt push the values this time and settled for around 80kWh usable capacity for this test.

Just my theory!

 

[RVAC]

• Model 3 SR+ E6LD WLTP 491km -> LFP 60kWh as expected earlier.

You mean E6LR right?

 

[eivissa]

You mean E6LR right?

I do. You are right. No AWD SR+!

 

[AAKEE]

V19 (3rd of August 20201) has been released... As expected it now includes the Model Y.

• Model 3 LR E5LD WLTP 614km -> Identical with the E3LD Panasonic.
• Model 3 SR+ E6LD WLTP 491km -> LFP 60kWh as expected earlier.
• Model 3 LR RWD E5CR WLTP 601km -> Introduced back in Q4/2020, but never released to the public. I guess a bit pointless anyway...
• No technical changes to the Model 3 described, but he had some in V18, so this one was mainly about Model Y.

View attachment 694609

Would be nice to know exactly which LG M50-cell they are(will be) using.

The LGM50T as seems to be the latest consumer versions of the M50 seems to deliver about 18.1 Wh at low discharge and the spec is 18.2 Nominal.
That’s 80.4 kWh for a full pack.

 

[Utkarsh09]

This is in case someone needs a specifications document for the new 3D(1-7) motors by Tesla China: https://www.tesla.cn/sites/default/files/model_3_owners_manual_asia_cn.pdf

 

[tezlam3]

For longest life? Cycle it between 20% and the lowest SOC that you are comfortable with - so if 60% is enough, then do that.

For maximum acceleration performance, you'll need higher SOC - 90% would be recommended, though personally I would still suggest 80-85% as in somewhat cooler weather, regen braking is reduced at 90% from 80%.

im comfortable with even 50 because of short commutes… does frequency matter all that much?

 

[AAKEE]

im comfortable with even 50 because of short commutes… does frequency matter all that much?

Frequency ?

The battery cells suffer from calendar aging, where a lower SOC is better than a higher.
You should be fine following the Tesla advise ( up to 90% daily and 90-100% for trips).
Dont leave the car gor long periods with high SOC, specially when the ambiebt temps is high.

Cycles also causes degradation.
Smaller cycles(depth of discharge, DOD) is better than bigger.
Also, for the same DOD, it is better to have the cycle in a lower state of charge. 50 to 30% is better than 80 to 60%.

I charge to about 50-60% in summer.
70% during late winter and spring. I did use 80% the coldest winter days.
Also I have the charging set to start on the night so the car stands most of the time with the comming home SOC( about 30-35% after work) and quite short time after charge.

 

[Szatan]

How to confirm which version would I have if I only have VIN? I'm sure that my SR+ will be 55kWh but it would interesting to check other parameters.
WLTP range of 491km vs 448km somehow maybe worth to delay car delivery? It will probably have more impact than in LR 580 vs 614km.
Tesla in Poland said they are not planning to increase battery size but they can increase SR+ price... sounds like sales talk to keep order we have.

My SR+ arrives in Poland around 20 of August and in the beginning of September is should be ready to go.

 

[eivissa]

How to confirm which version would I have if I only have VIN?

You can only confirm SR+ drive unit A = old / J = new and LFP yes = F / E = no. Thats it.

WLTP range of 491km vs 448km somehow maybe worth to delay car delivery?

Depends if you prefer proven or always the newest tech. I am pretty confident, that we will see the 60kWh SR+ in Q4 here in Europe. It would be ace for Tesla to push the sales for the last quarter.
Same goes for the Model Y Performance. Officially that one is coming next year, but my gut feeling says it will be available in Europe from November/December. It is still advertised with 480km WLTP, but we now know it has gotten 528km in the test run.

It will probably have more impact than in LR 580 vs 614km.

Especially a big impact on the E5CD 580km. The SR+ 491km really gives that one a run for its money. Thats why I think Q3 is the last time we will see this battery pack.