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MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc
- Thread starter EV Promoter
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A 3 second google search.
www.google.com
www.tesmanian.com
Tesla Model 3 tweaks include new battery pack with updated cells
It looks like Panasonic and Tesla got to work on more energy-dense cells quite quickly.
www.google.com
Tesla 2021 Model 3 Gets Upgraded 82 kWh Battery Pack, Extending Range
Tesla recently launched a refreshed Model 3. Among the many improvements, the cars received a range increase of 5 to 10%, depending on the configuration. It is now clear what was really behind this.Tff-forum.de user HolgerS found information that the Long Range and Performance Model 3 now...
www.tesmanian.com
This was for the P model but the LR one is still rolling out and I don’t think we have had confirmation for newer LR models with the 82kwh yet EXCEPT the MiA sent to EUA 3 second google search.
Tesla Model 3 tweaks include new battery pack with updated cells
It looks like Panasonic and Tesla got to work on more energy-dense cells quite quickly.
Tesla 2021 Model 3 Gets Upgraded 82 kWh Battery Pack, Extending Range
Tesla recently launched a refreshed Model 3. Among the many improvements, the cars received a range increase of 5 to 10%, depending on the configuration. It is now clear what was really behind this.Tff-forum.de user HolgerS found information that the Long Range and Performance Model 3 now...
The SR/+ never will (and doesn’t have the 75 to begin with). They presumably will move to a different type of battery like the MiC
Ah, so, we're still in the dark with respect to if the M3-LR's have the new battery pack or not (as per my original question)?
From this forum very few took Q2 deliveries so far in the US/Canada. And among those I don’t think anyone looked
travis3000
Member
Yep, at this point we don't really know for the M3 LR. M3P for sure has the bigger battery. I guess in the coming weeks as new deliveries come in we will have a better idea. We just need someone from this forum to get their car and check.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I'd expect more cells produced on a single day to be more similar than ones produced on different days.
To be clear I wasn't (previously) suggesting that they were actually "binning" packs. Just artificially limiting some somehow. But, on that topic: It's possible that they are binning packs, keeping healthier ones for the US, while sending a variety to Europe (healthy and "unhealthy"). But we have no real comprehensive data from the US (not enough data points for Performance) since no one seems to care what is their pack capacity here.
Pointless speculation follows:
A little odd. 508.5km is nearly exactly 316 miles (508.55). But the Performance EPA range is 315miles. Not 316. I suspect Tesla's ratings are denominated in miles to "start with," since that is the EPA measurement. Anyway, it could be that the car is calculating that 316.0 miles is the maximum displayed range (no idea whether anyone in the US has seen 316miles - I'd expect it, since presumably you could change to miles and see 316 miles in this case - which would also happen in the US).
If you go back to this post: MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc
You find that we were previously (before constant adjustment) at exactly 310 rated miles * 260Wh/rmi = 80.6kWh for the "limit."
80.60kWh/316rmi = 255.1Wh/rmi (158.45Wh/rkm).
So if they chose that number (316rmi) for the limit, and left the 80.6kWh cap the same, then maybe this could make sense (and 255.1Wh/rmi would be the official constant)?
Alternatively, maybe they use round numbers for the constant (in /rmi units):
80.6kWh/255Wh/rmi = 316.1rmi (508.7km)
At that range, if it really is the max, you could be right at the limit where it bounces back and forth. But still, you're charged so far over the limit of 80.6kWh, I'd still expect it to stay pinned at 508.7km (or 508.55km) which would display as a consistent 509km... But rounding errors in the software or during recalculations (as you say) could make this behavior occur, even if you're far over the limit - depending on how they actually perform the math.
Hard to get enough precision (really need nearly 4 significant figures) on the constant or the maximum range (from the energy screen - but for a car currently charged over the 80.6kWh "limit," such calculations to determine the constant would be misleading - due to the rated range cap I'd expect you to calculate a constant value that is too high) to say with certainty what might actually be happening, I guess.
This may be a bit off topic, but companies and governments are spending zillions of dollars installing superchargers everywhere. Why not electrify some lanes, at least on major highways, so you can charge as you go?
This is the plan in Sweden, at least to some extent. I think they already are building such a system for trucks to perform tests.
But really, it probably is extremely expensive and the battery technology of today is already good enough not to need this for cars. I wouldnt support the idea if I was in the politics…
Mine LR will be delivered this Friday. I'll let you know
Well, I saw 504-505km range when the nominal remaining passed 80.6. That I am quite sure of. The range did not reach 508 km until 81.2, that I am very sure of.
509km was shown about 81.3 or maybe 81.4 but it started alter between 509 and 508 km and this continued for as long as I had the time to watch the slow end of the charging.
At least 0.5kWh was added after it showed 509km the first time, and as that 0.5kWh is equal to about 3km or 2miles there wouldnt be a rounding error (in a regular meaning at least).
So I do not think it looks like 80.6kWh is the ”full battery” in the calculation, at least not anymore. And 81200/508 is closer to 160Wh/km than 158.45, otherwise I dont get 81.2 and 508 to ad up.
This is my suspect al least for Italy. (not for Europe because @AAKEE is in Europe.I'd expect more cells produced on a single day to be more similar than ones produced on different days.
To be clear I wasn't (previously) suggesting that they were actually "binning" packs. Just artificially limiting some somehow. But, on that topic: It's possible that they are binning packs, keeping healthier ones for the US, while sending a variety to Europe (healthy and "unhealthy"). But we have no real comprehensive data from the US (not enough data points for Performance) since no one seems to care what is their pack capacity here.
I explain: Im in Italy and the price of Performance Model 3 is artificiallly low here in Italy.
We have limits on Tax credit for Electric vehicles. It's needed to stay UNDER EUR 61000 . Model 3 Perf price has been decreased from about 65000 (during january reduction) to 60.990 (just 10 eur under the limit).
Even during recent increase on prices of Model 3 (Sr+ and LR AWD increased 2 times but NOT the perf model to stay under the 61000 limit)
Probably with a lower economic margin on Italian Performance models, Tesla is shipping in Italy the last choice/worse of E3LD.
Mine is still at 79,5 kWh Nominal Full Pack. (still displaying 506 km )
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Ah...I thought we had looked at this earlier in this thread - with you in fact - and we had the 80.6 cap still. MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc
That is where we (or at least I) got our current understanding of the constant.
However, things could well have changed (the cap seems to changed), so I think it is time to capture the energy screen on your car at a high SoC (does not need to be 100% and in fact there are benefits to not doing so - though getting the 100% screen would also be helpful (both)). This will allow us to recalculate the constant.
As a reminder: capture the three numbers %, projected range, recent avg efficiency. And another picture with “energy display Distance Mode”, capturing rated range remaining, projected range, recent average efficiency.
This can likely all be done now with your car in the garage as long at the SoC is above 80% or so. Higher the better but 80% is high enough.
Doing the same during a Supercharge capturing SMT at the moment you first reach the max rated range (and a picture of the screen for good measure at the same time), would be great. Along with another energy screen (and SMT) picture when nominal energy remaining/nominal full pack stops increasing would be great. (But that can all wait for later.)
To me it seems like there is an unknown here again. Maybe the prior data was thrown off by the cold or something. But in any case, no harm in another snapshot, which will explain what is going on...
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
If possible, if you could also take an energy screen picture as described above, that would be helpful. Here is the sample to avoid any confusion: Calculating Your Battery's Estimated Capacity Using the Car's Energy Screen
However, it would be helpful to ALSO get an identical picture with the distance display mode set to distance (rather than energy). At the same time. So two pictures.
Again, does not need to be done at 100% though eventually it would be great to have pictures in both states (two at high SoC (over 80%), and another pair of pictures at max SoC).
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I still would like to see all the pictures described above, but this data suggests:
316 rated miles cap. (508.5km)
257Wh/rmi constant (159.6Wh/km)
With a “max display charge” of 81.2kWh.
It could be as high as 160Wh/km, 257.5Wh/mi, with a max display charge of 81.4kWh or so. Might be more consistent with what you saw.
The pictures should help get closer if they are done at high enough SoC.
To me, it looks either earlier data was bad (I’d have to dig through to see if we have any old pictures in this thread as evidence but I probably won’t), or Tesla has increased energy available (the cap) for the 2021 Model 3 Performance, by about 0.7-0.8kWh. Or it is a temperature issue somehow, and I don’t actually know exactly how that is handled (maybe the “constant” is actually not completely constant with temp - but I’ve never seen any evidence for that - it seems extremely constant)..
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FredMt
TM3 LR Q4 2021 (after LR Q4 2019 and M3P Q2 2021)
Here are some of my pictures before 100% (supercharger), if it could help.
(After 100% follow)
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Unfortunately, really need the energy screen (which tells you how much energy you have left). Calculating Your Battery's Estimated Capacity Using the Car's Energy Screen
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