MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[conv90]

I did never care to check the sticker. Did get SMT right away and after I connected it, I saw the 82.1kWh full pack when new. That did it for me.

I have seen very steady numbers. Usually connects SMT when I arrive at home or sometimes before leaving work. I did have 80.1 for a long time during the coldest days and then it i creased about 0.1 per day to 81.4…that one was rock solid for at least a month.( except for temporary increase to 8-.5 and 81.6 at two 100% charges).
It decreased to 81.0 after some higher than usual 56-60% charges, and was rock solid at 81.0 for maybe a week before I put it outside for two nights in warm weather.
Now parked inside and will continue to see where the NFP goes.
Its so nice weather that I have about 20C in the garage now, so the datk and cold hideaway is of until the good part of the summer ends( which isnt that long up here )
No, I’d say my NFP usually is rock solid.

But for the (unhappy) persons seeing below 80kWh, I think my below 80 value today should be seen as a proof that ambient temps might be the thing causing part of the issue. I am not one single percent worries that my battery only can hold 79.8kWh as I read earlier.
BMS imperfection in calcsshould be the thing.

You are right , me too I'd don't care to check the sticker if my batteri was 81 kWh NFP .
Just tried to understand if 00-T and 00-P is the "split" between ~79 kWh batteries and over 81 kWh batteries.
About your rock solid readings and mine rock solid readings we are comparing your high 79 to mid 81 (so a 1,5kWh variance) with my 79,4 to 79,7 , a 0,3 kWh variance.
And my so limited diffences are with all the temp possible (from -7° to 40°C).
Mine stays at 79,6 regardless of temp (and regardless of charging style).
I know you don't care to know the label of the battery code, but it should clarify if you ave a 00-T like mine or a 00-P, so a possible different batt

 

[TimothyHW3]

I am with @conv90, @AAKEE please look at the sticker, it takes a few tries to move the camera, but you can do it. That will put the theory of 00-T vs 0L - P to the test.
I am actually kinda convinced that these LR 2021 00-T batteries can't do much more than 80kWh, because this is the increase reflected in WLTP range in the papers.

 

[FredMt]

Just tried to understand if 00-T and 00-P is the "split" between ~79 kWh batteries and over 81 kWh batteries.

My understanding is that :
- 00-T is Panasonic 2170L signature, for M3P 2021, LR 2021 (Q2 2021), even for SR+ 2021 (Q1 2021).
( It is supposed that for TM3P 2021 end Q4 2020, 2170L is as well include in 0L-P pack to be compliant with 567km WLTP.
MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc )
- 00-P is LR E3D / E3CD Panasonic 2170 cells.
(Pack capped in Europe during Q4 2020 and Q1 2021 to fit with LG pack size ~75kWh)

 

[AAKEE]

I am with @conv90, @AAKEE please look at the sticker, it takes a few tries to move the camera, but you can do it. That will put the theory of 00-T vs 0L - P to the test.
I am actually kinda convinced that these LR 2021 00-T batteries can't do much more than 80kWh, because this is the increase reflected in WLTP range in the papers.

Yes, I will check it.

Saw the request earlier and did get the link yesterday from alansubie.
Will check it, as soon as it fits the family schedule

 

[FredMt]

I am actually kinda convinced that these LR 2021 00-T batteries can't do much more than 80kWh,

But the same pack reference 00-T goes beyond 80kWh on TM3Ps (most, if not all? I think since Q1 2021).

 

[TimothyHW3]

But the same pack reference 00-T goes beyond 80kWh on TM3Ps (most, if not all? I think since Q1 2021).

Isn't there only one 00-T so far and all the rest were 0L-P? From that guy who couldn't get 500km and sold it? I think this was the only 00-T in a P so far confirmed, at least in Q4/Q1

 

[FredMt]

Isn't there only one 00-T so far and all the rest were 0L-P? From that guy who couldn't get 500km and sold it? I think this was the only 00-T in a P so far confirmed, at least in Q4/Q1

As I mention above, but maybe I m not clear :
On TM3P, since Q1 2021 (included), I only found 00-T. And before Q1 2021, I had only found one case of 00-T at the end of Q4 2020 ( Arnaudc06's) all the others were 0L-P.
To put it another way, on my side, since end Q4 2021, I have not found any 0L-P.
In Q2 2021, 00-T is as well in LR E3LD (614wltp).
(When I quote a quarter as you know the deliveries from Fremont come from mid quarter to the end).

 

[Jejunjm]

No problem. Anyway, at face value it looks like a somewhat lower pack capacity than a few (but not all!) of the Performance vehicles we've seen. But a very healthy result for the LR, based on what we've seen so far.

We can speculate about what might have happened if you had left it charging...but we'll never know, and that's ok. We can also speculate about what might happen if you modify charging regimen, etc. (as others have done). But no one will know until you do it of course. You can see what happens and report here, if you wish. Anyway, you have a baseline and you can just see what happens.

BTW, out of curiosity, was the destination you navigated to downhill for a bit? Trying to make sure I understand why that projection screen was pinned at 100%. Historically I didn't think they just pinned the SOC like that, but that projection looks like they are - or the destination was downhill for the first 5-7 miles or so. Trying to figure out which it was. You're in Tucson, I thought, so from what I know about that and what I think are palo verde in the background (but seems like too many trees for Tucson - so confused!!!), it probably was not downhill. So that would imply some pinning. Which confuses me. I can actually kind of understand why the energy screen might LOOK that way - but I am curious whether the actual results would match that projection.

Yes downhill for quite a bit. The first 5 miles my battery usage was 70ish w/mi. Got home with 96% batter (18 miles).

Separate note re trees. I was at the Arizona-sonora desert museum. If you are ever in Tucson do visit. It's both wonderful and beautiful.

Anyone want to speculate - How terrible is it for my battery health if I let it sit at 95% until tomorrow (at 100+f)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Yes downhill for quite a bit. The first 5 miles my battery usage was 70ish w/mi. Got home with 96% batter (18 miles).

Separate note re trees. I was at the Arizona-sonora desert museum. If you are ever in Tucson do visit. It's both wonderful and beautiful.

Thanks. That makes sense.

Yes, have visited Tucson a few times. Very beautiful desert country; also have enjoyed the Rincons & Catalinas. I try to avoid May to October or so though.

 

[TimothyHW3]

Anyone want to speculate - How terrible is it for my battery health if I let it sit at 95% until tomorrow (at 100

It is not optimal. Just turn the AC until it drops to about 85-90%.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Anyone want to speculate - How terrible is it for my battery health if I let it sit at 95% until tomorrow (at 100+f)

Yeah if you are really paranoid use the AC and set an alarm for yourself (don’t forget!). Might take a few hours, depending on the temperature and sun exposure. I wouldn’t worry about going below 90% if you are going to drive it at some point soon.
However, I doubt one or two instances like this will have any appreciable impact on your capacity loss.

 

[AAKEE]

What we see from all battery research is that it is time x temperature x SOC that wear on the battery degradation when it comes to calendar aging. One day wont kill it. Probably one day isnt even measurable when it comes to calendar aging/degradation from high SOC.


My personal view:
I would be carefull anyway, and I would not leave it above 80%. And the higher the ambient temperature the lower the SOC to compensate for that.
I did charge to 80% during the coldest days in the winter, but as the ambient temps got less cold I reduced the SOC.
Also, I charge during the end of the night, making the time on high SOC shorter.

 

[AAKEE]

1104423-OL-P.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

1104423-OL-P.
View attachment 678539

The best! Looks like you have a nice gravel collection as well.

 

[Jejunjm]

What we see from all battery research is that it is time x temperature x SOC that wear on the battery degradation when it comes to calendar aging. One day wont kill it. Probably one day isnt even measurable when it comes to calendar aging/degradation from high SOC.


My personal view:
I would be carefull anyway, and I would not leave it above 80%. And the higher the ambient temperature the lower the SOC to compensate for that.
I did charge to 80% during the coldest days in the winter, but as the ambient temps got less cold I reduced the SOC.
Also, I charge during the end of the night, making the time on high SOC shorter.

It may have taken 5 hrs of AC to get it to 83. (From mid 90s.)

 

[eivissa]

1104423-OL-P.
View attachment 678539

Q2/2021 Performance
1104423-00-T CB

Never charged above 60% since delivery and bouncing off the 80kWh at the moment with up to 10mV imbalance.

Next step is a 92% charge. Let it sleep and balance for a couple of hours then up to 100%.

 

[TimothyHW3]

1104423-OL-P

So I guess there might be something to it if you can go to 82kWh and the 00-T can't. I think the 00-T is limited somewhere around the 80kWh (maybe 80.5) mark.

 

[AAKEE]

So I guess there might be something to it if you can go to 82kWh and the 00-T can't. I think the 00-T is limited somewhere around the 80kWh (maybe 80.5) mark.

Fully charged, what is the cell voltage on the 00-T ? If its limited for some reason the cell voltage should be lower than 4.20V/cell when fully loaded and no load ( or very small load) on the battery. I reach very close to 4.200v at 100% SOC.

To be capped at 80kWh the voltage should be somewhere around 4.175 at full charge I guess.

I have a reading at 79.7kWh nominal remaining/99% SOC with 4.174v ( car not completely unloaded, I think heating, lights etc was on). At that time I had 80.6 as NFP.

I do not really see any reason for capping the battery in theae cases? I can se why they did it when they did mix Panasonic and LG with different pack capacity though.

We have nice warm weather at the moment( by our references, up here at the Artic circle), and my NFP is around the 80 kWh mark now. Varies slightly, earlier I had rock solid values. My feeling is that this is heat related.

 

[TimothyHW3]

To be capped at 80kWh the voltage should be somewhere around 4.175 at full charge I guess.

I have a reading at 79.7kWh nominal remaining/99% SOC with 4.174v

Was this the mix value? It will be more interesting to see your max and min values unplugged at different SOC and kWh. It seems that as long as one or a few batteries reaches 4.2V the car tends to stop the charging and the imbalance is higher at the top.

 

[AAKEE]

Was this the mix value? It will be more interesting to see your max and min values unplugged at different SOC and kWh. It seems that as long as one or a few batteries reaches 4.2V the car tends to stop the charging and the imbalance is higher at the top.

Max(=mix?) value of what?
I had 8mV max max delta during the end of the charge. I didnt wait until charging stopped so I dont know how much more balance I had got if I had waited untill it finished the charge.

I have 4mV unbalance/delta mire or less always unless when charging to really high SOC. I have seen 6mV a few times during driving.