MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

[Candleflame]

Could you possibly make a print screen from the teslafi battery degradation that also show the number of cars involved in that data and post, or mess me ? (I would like it for another forum stuff.
I can only see other 2021 M3P, as mine.

 

[emmz0r]

No LFP in M3P
At the moment only the Panasonic NCA 2170L 82kWh battery is used. I think it is only that battery that is approved with the Performance.
I think there was some guessing tgat the new LG 82kWh battery could be used. I think some refered that battery to be a NCMA, but I think it is a regular NMC( LG INR M50).

that's what the sales guy at tesla said. China m3p delivered to Europe.

 

[AAKEE]

that's what the sales guy at tesla said. China m3p delivered to Europe.

They just started or are about to chip M3P from China. But at a certainity of 99% there wont be any Long range performance with LFP with the todays LFP technology.
There need to be a misconception somewhere.
Besides the ”to low capacity” for a long range and space, the only WLTP range advertised is 567km, which would need the 82kWh battery.
There is a LG ”82kWh” battery coming, probably real capacity about 80.6kWh. That one is most likely a NMC battery( some people claim NMCA, but the regular LG M50 cell is NMC).
The MIC will as long as possible have batterys produced in China. If the LG M50 is up to the job (by Teslas standards) we will probably see that battery in the MIC built Performance in the future.

 

[AAKEE]

@Candleflame: Thanks, could you maybe also include the text below covering the number of cars.

 

[stergd]

MIC M3P (LRW* VIN) are already delivered in Greece the previous days. They guess that they have Panasonic battery aswell.

 

[Candleflame]

@Candleflame: Thanks, could you maybe also include the text below covering the number of cars.

about 150. im in bottom 11%.

 

[AAKEE]

about 150. im in bottom 11%.

Thank you!

 

[DariusJula]

When will the q4 cars show up? Is it November?

I am also curious about this. Does anybody know?

 

[emmz0r]

They just started or are about to chip M3P from China. But at a certainity of 99% there wont be any Long range performance with LFP with the todays LFP technology.
There need to be a misconception somewhere.
Besides the ”to low capacity” for a long range and space, the only WLTP range advertised is 567km, which would need the 82kWh battery.
There is a LG ”82kWh” battery coming, probably real capacity about 80.6kWh. That one is most likely a NMC battery( some people claim NMCA, but the regular LG M50 cell is NMC).
The MIC will as long as possible have batterys produced in China. If the LG M50 is up to the job (by Teslas standards) we will probably see that battery in the MIC built Performance in the future.

Don't know what to tell ya. The seller was pretty certain.

 

[AAKEE]

Don't know what to tell ya. The seller was pretty certain.

Well, I think the sellers have been wrong before.
Are you sure the seller said ”LFP” or was it only battery from LG or China? I think this should be a missconception.

All information about when Tesla started using LFP was that it would only be used in Standard range vehicles because of the low power density and energy per weight.
Available information say the CATL LFP has about 160Wh/kgon the cell level. The 2170L is rated 260Wh/kg. For a M3P with 567km WLTP/ 82kWh battery this would mean 100-200kg extra if it would be possible to accommodate it in the current space, which I seriously doubt without doing the math.

LFP is not suitable for long range vehicles duecto weight and space issues.
Also, at least when it comes to other LFP batteries( I know to little about these), LFP is not the best when it comes to delivered power / kg battery. All these point in the direction of not being used in the P or long range vehicles.

Elon Musk says Tesla is shifting more electric cars to LFP batteries over nickel supply concerns

Elon Musk’s Tesla Model 3 cobalt-free strategy is ushering in an LFP battery movement

As for the SR+ I actually think the range got lower with the LFP compared to the NCA-equipped cars despite that there should be room to fill extra batteries as SR+ only use a part of what the LR does.
I guess it is quite possible that there is no more space available for battery cells in the SR+ with LFP. And in that case it isnt possible to sell a LR with LFP today.

 

[lowgitek]

The closest I got was 99 %.

Here are my results:

LR 2021 EU with 18"
VIN 818xxx, Update 2020.44.25
E5D - old headlights
Parked outside, Temp. 7°C; Mileage = 1.000 km
WLTP 580 km - 148 Wh/km
Rated on car @ 99% = 527 km (328 mi)

In other words pretty much the same as OP/EV Promotor.

Hey, just curious how do you get those data in grafana?

 

[conv90]

I have a Wallconnector connected to 3phase/400V.
-Yes, I have the charge set up to commence at 0330 during the night. If I have been at a normal working day my SOC is about 30-35%. With the charger set at 11kW it takes about 2hrs to charge to about 56%.
I always connect the WC when I park it in my garage. Charging will take place every night.
The choise of 1,3 or 11kW charging power is mostly a question of the supply to the charger. There is a slight difference in charging efficiency but these charging rates is considered slow charging( less than 0.25C) anyhow and you would probably not be able to see any difference in degradation due to this.

I got my M3P at the last new year. In hour very cold climate i started with 80% SOC during the coldest (-30C) days. When it got less cold I lowered the SOC successively and ended up at about 55-57%. As I’m a less newbee on my Tesla for the upcoming winter I might use a lower SOC during the cold days.
The li ion battery degrade less from time at lower SOC and also less when using smaller discharges(charge often is better).

I think my teslafi range chart speak for itself about low degradation. The average fleet line is usually one to three other MP3’21, depending on these cars odo readings.
Started with a NFP of 80.7kWh the day after delivery and it still is at 80.7. The NFP is affected by the charging habits and higher SOC seems to push the NFP down.

View attachment 707203

Disclaimer:
I do not think anyone need to work hard to keep degradation low. You’ll be fine anyway.
I’m interrested, partly because of a hobby where I use different lithium batterys and started reading, when I ordered the M3 I started reading research reports again about li ion in general and NCA in particular.
I decided to use my knowledge to keep the degradation down, mostly for fun and not to the extent that It impact the fun part of having a Tesla.

@ Ro_explorer: you might be able to get less degradation and a clearly higher NFP when you get your wall connector.

@AAKEE , do you have a tiimeline over the odometer? I mean if you have some date in the X-axis.

 

[AAKEE]

@AAKEE , do you have a tiimeline over the odometer? I mean if you have some date in the X-axis.

This is from teslafi, it didnt get teslafi until after about three months after I got the car.

Also, I have taken notes of the Nominal full:

7/1 80.6kwh
12/1 80.7
13/1 81.0
16/1 80.9
18/1. 80.5
20/1. 80.6
15/2. 80.2
25/2. 80.0
27/2. 80.0
28/2. 80.0
5/3. 80.0
8/3. 80.0
9/3. 80.0
10/3. 80.0
19/3. 80.1
23/3. 80.1
2/4. 80.2
3/4. 80.1
4/4. 80.1
5/4. 79.9
6/4 80.1
11/4 80.4
12/4 80.5
13/4 80.5
14/4 80.6
15/4 80.9
17/4 81.0
22-23/4 81.0
28/4 81.4
30/4 81.4
1/5. 81.4
2/5. 81.4
3/5. 81.4
4/5 81.4
5/5. 81.4 Laddat till 85%
19/5 81.4
20/5 81.5 laddat 100%
23/5. 81.3
24/5. 81.4
25/5 81.4
26/5 81.2
27/5 81.4
29/5. 81.6
5/6 81.0
4/7. 79.5
15/7. 79.8
22/7 80.4
26/7. 80.5
28/7. 80.4
Between here 3400 km holiday drive with SuC and warm weather.
6/8. 80.0
7/8. 79.4
9/8. 79.6
10/8. 79.6
16/8. 79.8
17/8. 79.9
22/8. 79.7
23/8. 79.7
25/8. 79.9
29/8. 79.8
30/8. 79.9
1/9. 80.3
2/9. 80.4
3/9. 80.6
4/9. 80.7
6/9. 80.6
9/9 80.7
10/9 80.8
11/9 80.9
15/9 80.9
16/9 80.9
17/9 81.0
18/9 81.0 laddat 100%
19/9 80.4
20/9 80.3
21/9 80/3
23/9 80.3
24/9 80.3

 

[Candleflame]

looks like the 80kwh batteries have less degradation than the 78.8kwh ones.

 

[AAKEE]

looks like the 80kwh batteries have less degradation than the 78.8kwh ones.

As a 2170L-owner, one can at least hope you’re right

Did you look at the average? And take the *Not older than 10 months* fact? ( as time also causes degradation, specially in the first two years). There is only 4 other vehicles with the same odometer reading, and many of the cars showing the initial 15000km is not that old I guess).
Also, remember, the range ”start” at 507-508km on the 2021/2170L

As for my line, its probably higher due to my charging levels and charging scedule. I use my knowledge I got from my use of other lithium batteries and also a lot of home studies of research.
As it is only 3-4 cars at the datapoints above 15000km my ”high” reading pull the average up by a noticeble amount.

 

[AAKEE]

looks like the 80kwh batteries have less degradation than the 78.8kwh ones.

This is one day with four other cars, all M3P '21. Average 480.35, new= 507km points to 5% degradation on the rangemeter. My M3P shows full range down to a NFP of 80.4kWh. I think the NFP most often is about 80.5-80.8 for new M3P so the degradation shouldnt maybe not be calculated from the 82.1kWh full pack when new.
5% for 23700km 7-10 month old car, is this better than 2018 to 2020 ?

 

[conv90]

looks like the 80kwh batteries have less degradation than the 78.8kwh ones.

My 2021 M3P is 6months old 13000 kilometers. Started at day one at 79,6 kWh NFP and 499 extimated range.
Afetr that Tesal changed the constant climbed to 505 km up to beginning of august.
It stayed at 79,5 79,6 79,7 for 4 months and half, then after an update in beginning of august (this is a pure coincidence...) dropped 1 kWh (just after the update) to 78,5 kWh NFP .
Now it averages at 78,8-78,6 since beginning of august and 495-499 km extimated range at 100%.

 

[AAKEE]

My 2021 M3P is 6months old 13000 kilometers. Started at day one at 79,6 kWh NFP and 499 extimated range.
Afetr that Tesal changed the constant climbed to 505 km up to beginning of august.
It stayed at 79,5 79,6 79,7 for 4 months and half, then after an update in beginning of august (this is a pure coincidence...) dropped 1 kWh (just after the update) to 78,5 kWh NFP .
Now it averages at 78,8-78,6 since beginning of august and 495-499 km extimated range at 100%.

Fleet average seems to be about 490km at 13.000km on the ODO, so you seem to be doing fine

 

[Candleflame]

This is one day with four other cars, all M3P '21. Average 480.35, new= 507km points to 5% degradation on the rangemeter. My M3P shows full range down to a NFP of 80.4kWh. I think the NFP most often is about 80.5-80.8 for new M3P so the degradation shouldnt maybe not be calculated from the 82.1kWh full pack when new.
5% for 23700km 7-10 month old car, is this better than 2018 to 2020 ?
View attachment 714095

5% after 1 year and 23k km is probably the same as the old battery.

 

[doggolul]

I’m getting large amounts of vampire drain after a fairly long drive. Is this normal?

I have a 2019 Model 3 SR+ (240 mi rated range, now 220 mi rated according to stats). Thursday at 11pm, I parked my car in a garage, where the ambient temperature is around 65F. The battery reading was 69%. Saturday 4:30pm, I go out and my battery reading is at 60%. So in about a day and a half, I’ve lost 9% or 19 miles to vampire drain. This seems excessive to me. Between those two times, I didn’t have any apps open, sentry mode is off, and cabin overheat protection is off. What can I do about this insane amount of drain?