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Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

Phlier

Bluebird
Jun 12, 2019
2,184
4,082
Utah
Has anyone else noticed that when FSD beta is enabled, and you apply enough force to disengage auto steer (but TACC is still enabled), the visualization switches back to the old production style (no more red, yellow, blue-green/gray jumping decision path, etc.) until you fully disengage FSD beta using the up-stalk or brake pedal? I haven’t stayed on TACC for long enough after that to see what stack it’s using for speed control. I.E. - what happens when you approach a stoplight in that state? Does it brake really late and hard like production AP stoplight control or does it gradually and more naturally slow down like FSD beta does?
I have noticed the lack of enhanced visualizations after disengagement... mentioned it in a post buried around fifty pages back. I haven't really chased it as far as you have, though, as I've pretty much given up on the current FSD version. I might have to do a bit more exploring, though, as your post has my interest piqued!
some of my AP snapshots are self explanatory, so I haven't been accompanying them by emails.
Same.

I've sent a few emails for snapshots that were hard to contextualize, as well as to report other bugs that I don't have snapshots for. But for the most part, I've just been pushing the camera icon.
 
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EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
12,557
33,588
Seattle, WA
They use OSM for turn-by-turn navigation, Valhalla is the routing engine and its built on top of OSM. GitHub - valhalla/valhalla: Open Source Routing Engine for OpenStreetMap
Good call. They even maintain a fork of Valhalla in their organizational Github account: GitHub - teslamotors/valhalla

Interesting. So, what do they use TomTom for ?

May be they just get a bunch of mapping data - have customized, in-house "integration" built on top of various mapping data they get - then use Valhalla for navigation on top of that custom mapping db ?

Figuring out whether a road has a simple intersection or one with a roundabout is irrelevant to routing. So, they could still use TomTom for some of the features and Valhalla for routing.

ps : Its also possible they actually don't use Valhalla - but toyed with the idea for a while, but gave up. The above linked github shows last updates that are 4 years old.

pps : This seems to be what is happening. Tesla no longer uses opensource Github Valhalla but the new API version MapBox provides.

The navigation data and routing engine are provided by another software company, MapBox, which has been working on these projects for about a decade now.

In 2018, MapBox acquired a routing engine named 'Vallhalla', which is now part of the core API MapBox provides to users and enterprise clients like Tesla, Facebook, and many more. MapBox claims they gather data from millions of devices that their application is a part of and they reach at least 600 million people a month.
 
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GlmnAlyAirCar

Active Member
Mar 19, 2015
1,684
1,616
Sanatoga PA
I've noticed that 15mph signs are sometimes detected and visualized when OSM has maxspeed data. I haven't found a 15mph sign that wasn't already OSM mapped yet, but I'll keep looking. But even then, it looks like it's mostly vision based and sometimes the neural networks don't give high enough confidence to render:
View attachment 729326

I also tested with OSM mapped 20mph and 5mph signs (the various 10mph OSM mapped ones I checked didn't actually have a posted speed limit sign):
View attachment 729327View attachment 729328

A few interesting things about the 20mph sign:
  • the neural network actually predicted it to be 30mph and adjusted speed up on the 1st pass (photo from a 2nd pass)
  • when initially turning onto this road, the car's map data knew it was 20mph even though OSM doesn't have a speed limit for that segment
    • yet another observation that maybe only Smart Summon uses OSM
  • another speed limit sign on the street was initially rendered on the visualization but was removed as I got closer
    • probably thought it was a 30mph sign then confidence dropped below some threshold
Even though my neighborhood has posted 15 mph signs, FSD still wants to blow through it at 29 (25mph+offset). I'll see what it says on OSM.
 

JulienW

Active Member
Jul 7, 2018
3,152
4,166
Atlanta
10:30 - good example of Beta’s bewildering decision to change lanes away from an upcoming turn. Super annoying.
EVERY single time I'm crossing 17th street bridge in the left lane with a left turn on Market St coming up. At about the end of the blue line it ALWAYS decides to change into the right lane (which is also going through a traffic light intersection) and immediately has to change back into the left lane to make the turn (blue line going down). Very annoying and obtuse behavior. But at least I get to look like an idiot to everyone around me.

Also another problem this street has a BUS lane on the right and Tesla often decides to turn into it and then realizes it shouldn't and then turn back out. So it will often "weave" back and forth across all 3 lanes.

Screen Shot 2021-11-04 at 4.30.34 PM.png
 

DerbyDave

Active Member
Jul 2, 2020
1,699
975
Kentucky
First Drive. 20 miles (10 miles each way) on 2 lane Kentucky roads - one with no lines. At least 5 times I had to clip video for bad behavior. Two phantom braking incidents. Two Take Control Immediately (with Emergency Beeps and braking) phantom warnings. Trying to pass cars stopping at a stop sign on road with no lines. Driving down the center of the road with no lines, me swerving to avoid oncoming cars. It is exciting driving with the FSD, because it doesn't work. I'll see how it does in town and on the Interstate. Disappointed at the lack of progress from what I had before. I had stopped using that because it didn't work. I'll continue testing so Tesla can start programming for our country roads, because not much has been done so far. Initial 20 mile results are not encouraging.
 
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EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
12,557
33,588
Seattle, WA
EVERY single time I'm crossing 17th street bridge in the left lane with a left turn on Market St coming up. At about the end of the blue line it ALWAYS decides to change into the right lane (which is also going through a traffic light intersection) and immediately has to change back into the left lane to make the turn (blue line going down). Very annoying and obtuse behavior. But at least I get to look like an idiot to everyone around me.

Also another problem this street has a BUS lane on the right and Tesla often decides to turn into it and then realizes it shouldn't and then turn back out. So it will often "weave" back and forth across all 3 lanes.

View attachment 729378
Check in TomTom map.

I think one of the issues is - Tesla using TomTom / MobileBox / Valhalla to do routing, when showing Google map in UI. ATleast if they showed what they used for routing decisions, we'll know what the issue is.
 
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Mardak

Active Member
Oct 13, 2018
1,115
2,337
USA

EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
12,557
33,588
Seattle, WA
Curiously, OSM is missing `lanes` data for this middle segment (but has the data for adjacent segments) right where you've indicated the end of the blue line:
View attachment 729384
@JulienW Good case where you can change the middle section also to 3 lanes and see if the behavior improves after a while.
 

Bull

Fortunately not EndlessBull
Supporting Member
Oct 25, 2020
645
1,816
Tucson, AZ
I'm having about the same experience on our poorly marked roads here in Tucson. My car also keeps trying to drive in bike lanes which I'm pretty sure the bikers aren't going to love. It also accelerated towards pedestrians in a crosswalk which required IMMEDIATE intervention. There was even a flashing red light above the crosswalk. Unfortunately I was brand new to FSD Beta so I didn't know which camera button to push to report it. Now I know but it is poor design to have the confirmation message on a different screen.

I'm hoping that with tens of thousands of beta testers it will improve quickly.
 
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Bull

Fortunately not EndlessBull
Supporting Member
Oct 25, 2020
645
1,816
Tucson, AZ
First Drive. 20 miles (10 miles each way) on 2 lane Kentucky roads - one with no lines. At least 5 times I had to clip video for bad behavior. Two phantom braking incidents. Two Take Control Immediately (with Emergency Beeps and braking) phantom warnings. Trying to pass cars stopping at a stop sign on road with no lines. Driving down the center of the road with no lines, me swerving to avoid oncoming cars. It is exciting driving with the FSD, because it doesn't work. I'll see how it does in town and on the Interstate. Disappointed at the lack of progress from what I had before. I had stopped using that because it didn't work. I'll continue testing so Tesla can start programming for our country roads, because not much has been done so far. Initial 20 mile results are not encouraging.
Which driving profile are you using? I started in chill but switching to average today to see the difference.
 

Bull

Fortunately not EndlessBull
Supporting Member
Oct 25, 2020
645
1,816
Tucson, AZ
For the first few miles, I was in average, but noticed it was not completely stopping when it should, so switched to chill. You can't do rolling stops here.
I'm kind of surprised that rolling stops are built in as the default. But I guess being designed in California explains a lot.

Rolling stops not allowed here either so I may end up switching back to Chill.
 

tivoboy

Active Member
Jun 12, 2018
2,240
5,322
palo alto, ca

10:30 - good example of Beta’s bewildering decision to change lanes away from an upcoming turn. Super annoying.
This is such an honest, genuine and ACCURATE representation of what the current ”build” can produce. Throw it in a more urban environment and one can easily see how it can certainly break down further. Today I had a journey to the city (san Franciso) and made EVERY effort to use it as much as I could. From a near crash merging onto the main highway (280) which was a complete and epic fail In front of a SEMI (the car didn’t attempt to accelerate or de-celerate at ALL to try and manage a simple merge) to NOT navigating around a single road obstacle, or being able to adjust when other drivers made some turn signal LESS crazy Ivan moves into my lane in the city. I think on the inbound I dis-engaged over 25 times, but kept pushing to re-engage and see what the car would do. One time, worst scemario (I guess AS IF trying to slowly merge onto a main highway in FRONT OF A SEMI AT THE SAME SPEED wasn’t enough) the car seemed to have interpreted a stop LIGHT as a stop SIGN and after a painfully long stop/start/stop up to the line, the car decided to enter the integration at a RED LIGHT which required me to full brake peddle and call it a day.

I will say, doing a 45-50 minute drive (normal driving at speed, driver in control) to a FSD Beta drive, takes about 20% MORE time overall and you can easily double that in the overall life removed from the driver.

I‘m getting close, getting close to pushing the button (blue pill) but I’ll probably continue but not engage it on this type of driving till we get another rev.
 

Robwoodruff

Member
Nov 21, 2016
161
371
Ohio
Today I had two good drives with Full self driving. I turned off Automatic emergency breaking, Obstacle-aware Acceleration, Forward Collision Warning and Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance and the car no longer did any Phantom breaking or strange swerving off the road. It seems like Full self driving and the other systems are on two different computer programs that are fighting with each other. Full self driving has the accelerator pedal pressed at the same time Obstacle-aware Acceleration is breaking. Once I turned them off, the car drove like it should. Unfortunately, you have to turn off Automatic emergency breaking each time you get in the car because it turns itself back on each time you go from park to drive and the phantom breaking starts again.
 

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