Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[Mardak]

Not sure Tesla uses OSM for anything other than summon

Tesla seems to have a mixture of data for driving and potentially a different primary source for each of road connectivity vs speed limits vs lane data -- and maybe even depending on the region. Tesla can of course augment it with their own fleet data collection. From digging into problems in FSD Beta videos from before, a lot of lane selection issues matched up very well with OSM having wrong/missing lane counts and turn lane information. At least from my testing so far, it seems likely OSM is not the source of speed limit data, but I'm not sure what services provides (free) access to their speed limit data remotely.

I did find another road that does not have OSM maxspeed data, and the car switched to 20mph before seeing a sign and then visualized it!

I wonder if Tesla knows their under-25mph sign detection is not as confident, so they currently require map data to confirm before showing? But at least we know it's possible for both 15mph and 20mph signs to be visualized now.

 

[aronth5]

Today I had two good drives with Full self driving. I turned off Automatic emergency breaking, Obstacle-aware Acceleration, Forward Collision Warning and Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance and the car no longer did any Phantom breaking or strange swerving off the road. It seems like Full self driving and the other systems are on two different computer programs that are fighting with each other. Full self driving has the accelerator pedal pressed at the same time Obstacle-aware Acceleration is breaking. Once I turned them off, the car drove like it should. Unfortunately, you have to turn off Automatic emergency breaking each time you get in the car because it turns itself back on each time you go from park to drive and the phantom breaking starts again.

I went for a drive after changing my configuration to match yours. Definitely reduced phantom braking/slowing but not completely. I would guess at least 60% less but want to try again during the daylight hours. The downside of course is when your not using FSD you've added risk. But an interesting test. Would be interesting to see the results if other FSD testers try this.

 

[Taser8612]

This is such an honest, genuine and ACCURATE representation of what the current ”build” can produce. Throw it in a more urban environment and one can easily see how it can certainly break down further. Today I had a journey to the city (san Franciso) and made EVERY effort to use it as much as I could. From a near crash merging onto the main highway (280) which was a complete and epic fail In front of a SEMI (the car didn’t attempt to accelerate or de-celerate at ALL to try and manage a simple merge) to NOT navigating around a single road obstacle, or being able to adjust when other drivers made some turn signal LESS crazy Ivan moves into my lane in the city. I think on the inbound I dis-engaged over 25 times, but kept pushing to re-engage and see what the car would do. One time, worst scemario (I guess AS IF trying to slowly merge onto a main highway in FRONT OF A SEMI AT THE SAME SPEED wasn’t enough) the car seemed to have interpreted a stop LIGHT as a stop SIGN and after a painfully long stop/start/stop up to the line, the car decided to enter the integration at a RED LIGHT which required me to full brake peddle and call it a day.

I will say, doing a 45-50 minute drive (normal driving at speed, driver in control) to a FSD Beta drive, takes about 20% MORE time overall and you can easily double that in the overall life removed from the driver.

I‘m getting close, getting close to pushing the button (blue pill) but I’ll probably continue but not engage it on this type of driving till we get another rev.

This seems to be a fair and representative perspective of many beta testers … which is why Tesla would be wise to put on the phantom brakes to adding more users. I happen to be very risk tolerant and truly enjoy the thrill of being a “test pilot” but many/most just aren’t comfortable with the many quirks of the current release, understandably so. I hope most of us, like this user, still soldier on for the greater good.

 

[lonelylonley]

Sorry for the dumb question, but I noticed that FSD disappearing and just autopilot works when driving on the highway ( though its within the city, for example from my home to Walmart) and it reappears when I am off highway. Is this normal behavior for the FSD?

 

[MP3Mike]

Sorry for the dumb question, but I noticed that FSD disappearing and just autopilot works when driving on the highway ( though its within the city, for example from my home to Walmart) and it reappears when I am off highway. Is this normal behavior for the FSD?

Yes.

 

[Dan D.]

Sorry for the dumb question, but I noticed that FSD disappearing and just autopilot works when driving on the highway ( though its within the city, for example from my home to Walmart) and it reappears when I am off highway. Is this normal behavior for the FSD?

It's all in the manual. Have you not read the FSD manual?

 

[BMW740iL]

the disengagements will continue until morale improves

 

[thewishmaster]

Still cannot tell why it keeps stopping at this intersection:

Green light, with or without a lead car, FSD beta just pulls up to the line and stops. I paid close attention to the screen and there is no stop sign or anything unusual visualized. Maybe hard to see traffic lights? Though I vaguely recall seeing them visualized just fine. There's always too much traffic around to see whether beta will treat it as a stop sign or sit forever but if the conditions line up I'll give it a go.

 

[JulienW]

Another example that may be OSM related. This intersection was changed a couple of months ago. A bike line was added about where the blue line is and the burm is extended to about the green triangle. You must pass this and then turn. Yesterday my car coming south turned right where the OSM white direction line is crossing the bike lane and the burm. It even has those ½ plastic spheres around it so you don't drive over it.

Made an account and did do an easy practice edit on another road. May try and change this too.

OT: At least a little but are all changes made in OSM reviewed? Seems if anyone could make any change someone with a grudge could screw up a city.

 

[JulienW]

@JulienW Good case where you can change the middle section also to 3 lanes and see if the behavior improves after a while.

So I changed it to 3 Lanes like the other sections. Does this look correct? Need to hit Save but will do that. Sill a little confused since it is really 2 lanes and 1 Bus lane. The Bus lane is used as a right turn lane in sections. Don't see a way to denote a Bus lane. Are Bus lanes just considered lanes?

EDIT: Will also set Speed Limit to 35MPH.

 

[derotam]

They use OSM for turn-by-turn navigation, Valhalla is the routing engine and its built on top of OSM. GitHub - valhalla/valhalla: Open Source Routing Engine for OpenStreetMap

It is interesting because I have an area that is showing correct on OSM(one way section of road) but the car ALWAYS routes it wrong and wants to turn the wrong way down the one way section of road. So while a lot of people say that it follows OSM, here is one data point that shows it does not.

Edited to add picture from OSM.

 

[SilverString]

First Drive. 20 miles (10 miles each way) on 2 lane Kentucky roads - one with no lines. At least 5 times I had to clip video for bad behavior. Two phantom braking incidents. Two Take Control Immediately (with Emergency Beeps and braking) phantom warnings. Trying to pass cars stopping at a stop sign on road with no lines. Driving down the center of the road with no lines, me swerving to avoid oncoming cars. It is exciting driving with the FSD, because it doesn't work. I'll see how it does in town and on the Interstate. Disappointed at the lack of progress from what I had before. I had stopped using that because it didn't work. I'll continue testing so Tesla can start programming for our country roads, because not much has been done so far. Initial 20 mile results are not encouraging.

Same here. To get anywhere from home, I have to drive a few miles on blacktop that has no lines and the car drives in the middle of the road. To make things worse the route is full of small steep hills so you do not see oncoming traffic until it is very close. It sometimes gets over, but several times I have had to force the car to the right to avoid a head-on collision. This is the biggest issue I have so far and hope it gets addressed soon. In general the car seems less confident on roads it used to navigate smoothly.

 

[mxnym]

Still cannot tell why it keeps stopping at this intersection:
View attachment 729482
Green light, with or without a lead car, FSD beta just pulls up to the line and stops. I paid close attention to the screen and there is no stop sign or anything unusual visualized. Maybe hard to see traffic lights? Though I vaguely recall seeing them visualized just fine. There's always too much traffic around to see whether beta will treat it as a stop sign or sit forever but if the conditions line up I'll give it a go.

If you don't see the lights indicating green in the visualization, then it would be appropriately stopping for a stop line / power outage. To elaborate, in at least some states, a stop line means stop even without the sign (though you seldom, if ever, see that unless a sign has been knocked down), and AFAIK, traffic control signals that don't have power are supposed to be treated as 4-way stops in all states.

ETA: You should still report this if you haven't, because they need the sample in order to figure out and correct it. I'd recommend sending an e-mail to match the report, because even though it's obvious to you, it may not be obvious to whoever might review the report.

 

[aronth5]

This doesn't add any clarity but interesting conjecture about OSM and Tesla
Tesla - OpenStreetMap Wiki

 

[Gigaron]

When I drive west on Chestnut St/Westborough/Sharp Park (the same street changes names) in south S.F., FSD doubles the time the drive takes because it doesn’t know how to optimize getting through the lights and going around left turn traffic blocking the next lane over because the turnout is too short.

 

[edseloh]

OT: At least a little but are all changes made in OSM reviewed? Seems if anyone could make any change someone with a grudge could screw up a city.

I wonder about that as well. There's a checkbox to request a review when saving changes, but it's optional.

I first learned that Tesla uses OSM data around the time that Smart Summon was released. I had tried it out when I first got the software update and it performed horribly. I was in the back part of my work parking lot and tried to use summon to fetch my car. I deliberately parked where there were no other cars nearby. It started out slowly driving toward me and then took off diagonally, crossing a bunch of (empty) parking spaces. The weird thing was that the path made absolutely no sense.

When I heard about OSM being used by Tesla I looked at the map, and sure enough the bizarre diagonal path was there, exactly as the car had followed. I fixed it in OSM, but haven't used the Smart Summon feature since. At the time I thought that OSM was only used for private roads and parking lots, but maybe they're incorporating OSM data into navigation as well.

 

[jebinc]

As 10.4 release looms, please be sure to update your data in the tracking spreadsheet today, attached to post #1. Thank you!

 

[FSDtester#1]

As 10.4 release looms, please be sure to update your data in the tracking spreadsheet today, attached to post #1. Thank you!

Is it still looming? Has anyone caught any social media posts from Em? I don't have any social media, and don't know how to use it. I am taking a long trip this weekend and would love to test it.

 

[jebinc]

Is it still looming? Has anyone caught any social media posts from Em? I don't have any social media, and don't know how to use it. I am taking a long trip this weekend and would love to test it.

Nothing since the "Probably Friday afternoon" Elon tweet earlier this week. Should be interesting to see what, if anything, happens this afternoon (PST).

 

[FSDtester#1]

Nothing since the "Probably Friday afternoon" Elon tweet earlier this week. Should be interesting to see what, if anything, happens this afternoon (PST).

Ah, that's right I think I remember seeing the Elon percentages, probably is 60% I think that's how the Elon time equation worked out