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Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

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Elon stated that SpaceX uses lidar to dock Dragon with the ISS, so I think they have a pretty good idea of what lidar can and can not do.

Sure, Elon is known for making some rather grandiose statements, but he has the experience behind him when he stated, "anyone chasing lidar is doomed."
I expect Tesla to improve / expand the sensor suit. But they will have a large bill to pay of they can't deliver City Streets NOA with HW3.

When talking about Lidar etc we should look at the context. When Tesla jumped on FSD train, Lidar was expensive and ugly. You just couldn't put that on a consumer car. But now that Lidar isn't that expensive and can be small enough to be hidden in cars - if Tesla were to start over again they might consider putting lidar. It makes life easier.

Either way they are right on one thing - HD Maps are not practical if you want to cover 2 Million paved roads in N America (and probably even more in ROW). HD Maps are only practical for Robotaxi services in large cities.
 
Had my first no disengagement (a few accelerator pushes) drive through Midtown for about 2 miles. Was a slower traffic morning (Black Friday) but I will take it. Did make one MAJOR mistake that it ALWYAS makes. Turning onto 14th Street from the outside turn lane it always tries to go into the inside lane an I have to disengage (or I could just hit them and make a duplicate NHTSA report🤣🤣). There were cars in front of me (lead cars as always) but no one beside me so for the first time I let it play out to see if it would actually go all the way into the inside lane:rolleyes:

Still I may have 3 shots 🥃🥃🥃 in celebration of a no disengagement drive and summon a Tesla Robotaxie:eek: to take me home.:cool:

Screen Shot 2021-11-26 at 4.54.21 PM.png
 
Since there are lots of posts about maps and mapping sources, I only just noticed that Tesla uses Apple Maps for vehicle locations. Has it always been that way? Why would they use TomTom for FSD but Apple Maps for location tracking?
Tesla uses Apple Maps in the iOS App for location. Also Tesla uses Google images in the car. This is just for you to see and has nothing to do with the car driving. The car runs a mapping system "under the hood" that it uses for navigation. This mapping system is probably from a combination of different data sources aggregated, like TomTom, Open Street Maps and Here.
 
Noticing some definite limitation in FSD ‘reading’ signs. It keeps wanting to turn right and going into the freeway entrance only marked lane rather than staying in the lane that will take it over the freeway as the nav system is guiding it. also does not seem to notice the ‘no turn on red’ sign(admittingly small sign). Finally, locally we have crosswalks located not at an intersection , has yellow strobes that are triggered by pedestrians. FSD does not seem to recognize anything is there.
 

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Noticing some definite limitation in FSD ‘reading’ signs. It keeps wanting to turn right and going into the freeway entrance only marked lane rather than staying in the lane that will take it over the freeway as the nav system is guiding it. also does not seem to notice the ‘no turn on red’ sign(admittingly small sign). Finally, locally we have crosswalks located not at an intersection , has yellow strobes that are triggered by pedestrians. FSD does not seem to recognize anything is there.
FSD ONLY reads standard Speed Limit, Stop and Yield signs at this time. FSD can't read any other signs at all.
 
Just had the smoothest drive so far with either 10.4 or 10.5 release so far.
Not on the really small side roads, but larger multilane roads with stops signs, traffic lights, merges hidden lights, filter lanes etc.
No interventions and only one cautious slowdown.
Really smooth corners, very good traffic light handling and lane keeping.
I've noticed with 10.5 that it will sometime move to left lane when approaching busy lights with right turns (when we are going straight on). This is something I often do myself to the right turn traffic can make the turn.
It handles a 2:1 lane merge really well, but took several hundred yard to start to slow down from 50-40 when the limit changed which isn't good.
Overall, the best drive yet.
 
Tesla uses Apple Maps in the iOS App for location. Also Tesla uses Google images in the car. This is just for you to see and has nothing to do with the car driving. The car runs a mapping system "under the hood" that it uses for navigation. This mapping system is probably from a combination of different data sources aggregated, like TomTom, Open Street Maps and Here.
One thing I'd add is - Nav is supposed to work even if there is no internet connectivity. So the map has to be locally stored & I think the google map that shows up on the screen is downloaded in realtime ...
 
One thing I'd add is - Nav is supposed to work even if there is no internet connectivity. So the map has to be locally stored & I think the google map that shows up on the screen is downloaded in realtime ...
Yes the "what you see" Google interface map is dynamically downloaded by cell service as you need it (just like a phone). No cell service NO interface to see. But the car gets it's "under the hood" Navigation data downloaded a couple of times each year and it a couple of GBs if I remember correctly. This can be seen under Software menu. Here is a pic of it downloading from a year ago.

I don't have Wi-Fi and must use my iPhone hotspot to download updates. Luckily for some reason Tesla is using cell data to download all Beta updates, as of now. Hope they keep this up.


IMG_5982.jpeg
 
Had my first no disengagement (a few accelerator pushes) drive through Midtown for about 2 miles. Was a slower traffic morning (Black Friday) but I will take it. Did make one MAJOR mistake that it ALWYAS makes. Turning onto 14th Street from the outside turn lane it always tries to go into the inside lane an I have to disengage (or I could just hit them and make a duplicate NHTSA report🤣🤣). There were cars in front of me (lead cars as always) but no one beside me so for the first time I let it play out to see if it would actually go all the way into the inside lane:rolleyes:

Still I may have 3 shots 🥃🥃🥃 in celebration of a no disengagement drive and summon a Tesla Robotaxie:eek: to take me home.:cool:

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Atlanta highways are insane. Even in the 90s, I remember 85 going into downtown was 8 lanes across each direction.
 
Atlanta highways are insane. Even in the 90s, I remember 85 going into downtown was 8 lanes across each direction.
Actually it is 2 speeds. 85MPH or 5MPH and nothing in-between except hard braking.:oops:

Sorry misread your post as in I85. Here is a pic of it right now north of Atlanta (Buckhead in left background). Kinda low traffic but it is the middle of a holiday.
IMG_0022.jpeg
 
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FSD ONLY reads standard Speed Limit, Stop and Yield signs at this time. FSD can't read any other signs at all.
That is also my understanding but am surprised it doesn't read standard speed limit signs at exit ramps. That could help address the excessive exit speeds I encounter on some ramps. Maybe Tesla believes they can adjust speed as you enter the exit ramp by vision only. They have made some progress here but still have a long way to go to avoid approaching some exit ramps at high speed only to perform a hard brake which should be unnecessary. I can always tell this is coming when my wife grabs the door handle as the car slings around the exit ramp unless I disengage first.
 
Went for a short 15 minute drive on a new route - no interventions except in one place where the roundabout is not in the map (so I found one more !). So, 15 or 30 minute drives with "Zero Disengagements !!!!" are not that difficult.

While coming back - it was a different story. Raining and I wasn't sure how "degraded" FSD really was. Several disengagements (on a slightly different route). Seem to slow down every time there was a cross walk.

Also - the car consistently has problems when there is a cross-walk just before the traffic lights. The car stops before the cross-walk instead of at the stop line.
 
This is already in place in some areas, and they can also receive signalling from emergency services to override the light on demand during emergencies. Not sure how pervasive it is though. Certainly local DOT has some overall system capability for this but that would be through central control.
We have a few of those in my area (receiving a signal from emergency vehicles that is, not transmitting light status). Long before you see the emergency vehicle in the area, a weird white light turns on above the traffic light, then several seconds later all lights turn red, and then after just long enough for people to be really confused, an ambulance or fire truck will show up and drive through, and then the white light turns off and it goes back to normal operation.

The only time I had it happen while on FSD, I was already at a red light, so it was just a really long duration red with a white light on top for a while from where I was. FSD stayed put as expected
 
and interpreting the NOT red of this one light in the middle as time to go into the intersection
This shouldn't happen anyway, as flashing red lights with no stop signs can and do exist in less than all travelled directions in some intersections. In my lay opinion, it is more likely FSD is switching to the wrong function or has bad map data that the lights override when not apparently flashing. I'm surprised we don't see more of that, though, considering how much even automotive LED (DC) lights flicker in video while traffic control LEDs may well be AC.
This is already in place in some areas, and they can also receive signalling from emergency services to override the light on demand during emergencies. Not sure how pervasive it is though. Certainly local DOT has some overall system capability for this but that would be through central control.
You have any sources on this? I assume Audi's proof of concept was in Germany, and you appear to be talking about the US since you mention DOT. Thing is, according to what I've read, emergency vehicles use light to do this, not radio, and it is one-way communication. There's also the fact that each state has a different DOT.
I hope Tesla continues to secretly test lidar. On FSD 10.5 I am disengaging every 1 to 2 minutes. It's absurd. In my opinion vision is not working and is too finicky depending on light, shadows and time of day.
I don't think Tesla is "secretly testing" LIDAR. I think they utilize LIDAR to prove out their camera configurations and calibration functions.
Aren't all of these lighting positions standardized? People who are color blind can still drive. All I was saying is there are other ways of identifying a traffic signal and I would think that the really smart people at Tesla would have already worked that into the system they use to ID whether or not the car should go or stop.
Not at all, I've heard anecdotes of red lights being on the bottom and colorblind people stopping for green and going for red accordingly. There's also the fact that each state has its own regulations as I mention in a previous unrelated reply in this post. If that weren't bad enough, the fact that they can theoretically be turned sideways in either direction is further exacerbated by the fact that some states have lights turn yellow between green and red (that is as it becomes time to stop) while other states have them turn yellow between red and green (that is as it becomes time to go). In atypical situations, a colorblind person has to pay attention to vehicles in front of them (even AP does that). If there are no lead vehicles in such a situation, a colorblind person can only rely on cross traffic (FSD is better off recognizing the colors than relying primarily on the behavior of potentially occluded cross traffic), and may well run a red or stop at a green depending on the situation.
I don't have Wi-Fi and must use my iPhone hotspot to download updates. Luckily for some reason Tesla is using cell data to download all Beta updates, as of now. Hope they keep this up.
I'm guessing "some reason" is that they want all beta testing vehicles on the same version for data collection and/or liability purposes. There was a time (before Model 3 started flooding the streets) when all updates would go over mobile some time after they were released over WiFi (technically, I think this would still happen [after years instead of weeks, assuming the versions that would be available via mobile weren't pulled before the scheduled date passed] according to code exploration by @verygreen ), but IMO, a similar era is unlikely to return considering that it didn't return with paid premium connectivity.
 
LOL. So, didn't want to spend the time & money needed for a proper roundabout and just put a few poles and called it a day. Pathetic.

Or worse, the contractor pocketed 90% of the money.
In Europe, a lot of urban roundabouts for smaller roads are literally just a large dot painted in the road, maybe a foot or two in diameter.

Here's the first example I found in a random intersection in Edinburgh (coordinates 55.949063, -3.194402):
Roundabout.png