Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[Drrobmiller]

Hello, so I beta tested FSD beta for the first time last night and this morning in Buffalo NY. I made the trip from NYC to visit my daughter, and the 400 mile drive , plus yesterdays 128 miles as calculated by Stats tesla app put me into the 100 percent safety rating,...12 hours later the email and woo hooo! ...lets see what this is all about.

First off, the positives...unfortunatel;y, its a very short list.

1) I dont have to worry about my safety score anymore. Yup, the best part of all of this is being able to drive normally...these last 3 weeks to obtain the prize was by far the weirdest driving time Ive ever had. So, yes, I cant believe Im exiting the car and not opening my tesla app to see the score.

2) the software downloaded without wifi and uploaded ...no issues.

3)the visualizations are very very cool.



Now, the negatives.

1)only 50 percent of the time does the car complete a 90 degree turn. It disengages constantly, and it would disengage half way through the turn, hesitating the entire time. If your hands are not on the wheel, you can definetly drift and hit another car, or guard rail. It just happens to many times

2)it makes turns without slowing down, talk about aggresive turning!

3)the car hesitates way to much, and can slow down rapidly even on a straight road. I have to watch the rear view mirror to act quickly so the car behind me dosen't rear end me

4)It wont make a right hand turn at a red light....and if theres a shoulder, it doesnt drift into it prior to making the 90 degree right turn.

5)parking lots,...forget it....useless

6)very jerky accelrations and serious hard breaking....your break pads will finally see some action and wear and tear.

7) random disengagements, out of nowhere.

Guys, this is definietly a beta that we signed on for. Very surprized that alot of posts read online on how amazing this is. Please, its like your a student driver observer but its a computer. You MUST , MUST, have your hands FIRMLY on the wheel and be ready to react in a moments notice.
My advise is to test without passengers unless they know they will be jerked around. My question with so many disengagments ...Is there a recalibration breakin period that I dont know about like when we got our cars initially? I'm wondering if the cameras or sensors on my model x 2020 loaded are defective. Im mean this many disengagements?

or....is this beta really quite the leap foward and with all the beta testing feedback the program will improve exponentially with each new version?

At breakfast, I told my daughter that 20 years from now when there are self driving robotaxis, I will be an 80 year old and telling my grandkids the story of how I beta tested the FSD beta. I hope within the next few months its a happy story.

PS....the drive back home with no safety score anxiety, like I said, what a weird 3 weeks

 

[EVNow]

You MUST , MUST, have your hands FIRMLY on the wheel and be ready to react in a moments notice.

It disengages constantly,

Here is the critical issue with FSD Beta. Not sure why the youtubers haven't talked at length about this.

We know,
- Tesla wants us to intervene quickly if something seems to be going wrong
- It looks like FSD disengages with a lower amount of force on the steering wheel
- BUT, the steering wheel action at turns is very jerky i.e. it quickly rotates left & right on every turn.

So - how exactly can we tell whether FSD is going to turn properly ? The only way to tell for sure is if the steering wheel is turning as expected. But since it is jerky, you have to let it bounce around and finally make the turn i.e. you have to not intervene and keep the faith that it will turn properly. This "keep the faith" is exactly opposite of "intervene if something seems to be going wrong".

Half the time - during turns - I don't know whether the car disengaged beta or it disengaged because I was holding the steering wheel firmer than it lets me.

They need to make the turns smoother for us to properly test. Otherwise there will be far too many disengagements and occasional rim damage because there is no way I can tell whether its going to brush the curb or not with the jerky steering wheel action.

 

[Drrobmiller]

Here is the critical issue with FSD Beta. Not sure why the youtubers haven't talked at length about this.

We know,
- Tesla wants us to intervene quickly if something seems to be going wrong
- It looks like FSD disengages with a lower amount of force on the steering wheel
- BUT, the steering wheel action at turns is very jerky i.e. it quickly rotates left & right on every turn.

So - how exactly can we tell whether FSD is going to turn properly ? The only way to tell for sure is if the steering wheel is turning as expected. But since it is jerky, you have to let it bounce around and finally make the turn i.e. you have to not intervene and keep the faith that it will turn properly. This "keep the faith" is exactly opposite of "intervene if something seems to be going wrong".

Half the time - during turns - I don't know whether the car disengaged beta or it disengaged because I was holding the steering wheel firmer than it lets me.

They need to make the turns smoother for us to properly test. Otherwise there will be far too many disengagements and occasional rim damage because there is no way I can tell whether its going to brush the curb or not with the jerky steering wheel action.

I kinda figured that,...how do you know? I wish the car would just take the turn SLOWER,...that way it gives you a little extra time to let it "do its thing" very risky stuff here, like playing chicken.

BTW,...is the video button set up to record an event, lets say 10 seconds saved?

 

[VanFriscia]

Half the time - during turns - I don't know whether the car disengaged beta or it disengaged because I was holding the steering wheel firmer than it lets me.

Yes, 1,000x this! Add hilly & curvy country roads to that too - they're almost as bad as normal turns. I often truly have no clue if the car disengaged itself or if it was because of my hands on the wheel. Here's to hoping they move to eye tracking to gauge driver engagement sooner rather than later, because hands on the wheel kinda stinks for FSD city driving.

 

[tpatana]

Age is SO subjective? Are you trying to chronologically date me? I have been told that I don't look old enough to be so accomplished, but I will tell you that I'm way older than the internet. I do remember, a long time ago, sitting behind Jesus in second grade. Oh sugar! That will probably offend some people. Sorry in advance.

I'm so old they measure me with carbon dating.

 

[jabloomf1230]

For those of you having major trouble with 90 degree turns and winding roads, the option of last resort is to recalibrate the cameras. Just keep in mind that this process could take anywhere from 25 to >100 miles and may not improve the way that FSD beta works.

 

[Phlier]

On the other hand, it is understandable that you might want to do this for yourself. By creating your own test track, you can be in a better position to judge whether new FSD versions are better, or not.

Yup, that's exactly the reason.

I think that Tesla is adding all the new "Data Acquisition Units" aka "Beta Testers" so that when Dojo finally does come online, they have copious amounts of data for it to drink like a frat boy with a beer bong.

If it is really capable of the performance they're quoting, the current fleet won't be able to keep it fed. Which is why I think it's a great idea for them to be stashing all that data for when it finally comes alive.

It'll really be exciting when it does... we should finally hit the business end of the exponential growth graph.

I imagine they also need the time to properly label and categorize the footage to aid in training, too. Having huge piles of data that are all labeled, categorized, and ready to digest should really help the learning process.

But my primary reason for driving an extensive area around my town isn't just data acquisition, it's to track rate of improvement.

 

[Phlier]

Our others struggling with TACC staying on after a disengagement? This is a constant problem for me. It seems that a steering wheel disengagement leaves TACC on but a brake (of course) cuts it off. I think the steering wheel should ALWAYS disengage TACC from Beta FSD. When you are in a stressful event you are NOT thinking did I disengage by wheel or brake. TACC NEEDS TO turn OFF.

Completely agree.

I'm sure there are others that would argue that they'd like it to stay on, so unless Tesla gives us an option to have it either way, they're gonna end up in yet another situation where they can't please everyone.

But yeah... I want everything off when I take control with the wheel.

 

[Drrobmiller]

For those of you having major trouble with 90 degree turns and winding roads, the option of last resort is to recalibrate the cameras. Just keep in mind that this process could take anywhere from 25 to >100 miles and may not improve the way that FSD beta works.

I was wondering about recalibration the cameras. But yeah, a catch 22.
it seems the way it takes a 90 degree turn is some hesitation at 45 degrees where you think you will drift into oncoming traffic...so you grab wheel tighter and this causes a disengagement,....I guess.

‘so learning curve happening here just like safety score, Just figured at this point the turns would be taken slower so you would have more confidence to let the turn totally complete passes 45 degrees.

 

[Phlier]

For those of you having major trouble with 90 degree turns and winding roads, the option of last resort is to recalibrate the cameras. Just keep in mind that this process could take anywhere from 25 to >100 miles and may not improve the way that FSD beta works.

There have been a few reports of people being unable to get their cameras to pass a recalibration, too. Ended up having to take their cars to an SC.

Makes me wonder if Tesla has tightened up the parameters, or something.

I've re-calibrated mine a few times in an attempt to get it to recognize some speed limit signs that it's not seeing. And why it's not seeing them is a real head scratcher.

It did successfully see them for the first day or two after the re-cal, but now it's back to not seeing them again, several calibrations later.

 

[Phlier]

Half the time - during turns - I don't know whether the car disengaged beta or it disengaged because I was holding the steering wheel firmer than it lets me.

Yup. It would be nice if it made a different sound when FSD auto-disconnects vs too heavy of a hand.

 

[nvx1977]

Here is the critical issue with FSD Beta. Not sure why the youtubers haven't talked at length about this.

We know,
- Tesla wants us to intervene quickly if something seems to be going wrong
- It looks like FSD disengages with a lower amount of force on the steering wheel
- BUT, the steering wheel action at turns is very jerky i.e. it quickly rotates left & right on every turn.

So - how exactly can we tell whether FSD is going to turn properly ? The only way to tell for sure is if the steering wheel is turning as expected. But since it is jerky, you have to let it bounce around and finally make the turn i.e. you have to not intervene and keep the faith that it will turn properly. This "keep the faith" is exactly opposite of "intervene if something seems to be going wrong".

Half the time - during turns - I don't know whether the car disengaged beta or it disengaged because I was holding the steering wheel firmer than it lets me.

They need to make the turns smoother for us to properly test. Otherwise there will be far too many disengagements and occasional rim damage because there is no way I can tell whether its going to brush the curb or not with the jerky steering wheel action.

this is why I prefer steering interventions to be non-disengaging. Significantly reduce torque resistance to allow driver to smoothly take a turn, then when no torque is detected, resume autosteer. I suppose they don't want to do this for driver-monitoring issues, but cabin camera is helping now. This way, every manual intervention by the driver is assumed to be a correction.

 

[nvx1977]

I hit AP Jail on the highway today for the first time ever. Forgot the speed limit has been lowered to 80mph. Heads up everyone

 

[wtwieder]

Yup, that's exactly the reason.

I think that Tesla is adding all the new "Data Acquisition Units" aka "Beta Testers" so that when Dojo finally does come online, they have copious amounts of data for it to drink like a frat boy with a beer bong.

If it is really capable of the performance they're quoting, the current fleet won't be able to keep it fed. Which is why I think it's a great idea for them to be stashing all that data for when it finally comes alive.

It'll really be exciting when it does... we should finally hit the business end of the exponential growth graph.

I imagine they also need the time to properly label and categorize the footage to aid in training, too. Having huge piles of data that are all labeled, categorized, and ready to digest should really help the learning process.

But my primary reason for driving an extensive area around my town isn't just data acquisition, it's to track rate of improvement.

By the time this super computer comes on line, won't much of the back logged data, not previously digested, be too old to eat? In other words, future software versions may have addressed the situations that make the a lot of old, unprocessed data irrelavent
Or, perhaps, that won't matter to a computer, so hungry, that it will quickly gobble up everthing, fed it, healthy or not.
Such a computer is beyond my imagination.

 

[Phlier]

By the time this super computer comes on line, won't much of the back logged data, not previously digested, be too old to eat? In other words, future software versions may have addressed the situations that make the a lot of old, unprocessed data irrelavent
Or, perhaps, that won't matter to a computer, so hungry, that it will quickly gobble up everthing, fed it, healthy or not.
Such a computer is beyond my imagination.

Probably not.

Remember that they need to teach the AI "This is a dump truck," "This is a dump truck with a bicycle in front of it" "this is a dump truck with a car in front of it" "this is a dump truck with a dog in front of it" "this is a dump truck with a dumpster in front of it", etc. etc. etc. et freaking cetera.

That type of data doesn't really get stale.

That's probably not a very good analogy... actually, it's really not (they most likely will label occluding objects separately, not as part of the object they're labeling... if that makes sense), but at least it makes the point; a lot of objects in the world that the machine needs to learn, with a lot of contexts, too.

How they are going to teach the machine to recognize partially obscured objects just blows my mind.

 

[dcesq06]

For those of you having major trouble with 90 degree turns and winding roads, the option of last resort is to recalibrate the cameras. Just keep in mind that this process could take anywhere from 25 to >100 miles and may not improve the way that FSD beta works.

Hopefully, the first and last resort is Tesla fixing its FSD software!

 

[aronth5]

For those of you having major trouble with 90 degree turns and winding roads, the option of last resort is to recalibrate the cameras. Just keep in mind that this process could take anywhere from 25 to >100 miles and may not improve the way that FSD beta works.

Already did that and Tesla ran remote diagnostics to confirm cameras are good. Minor improvement with right hand turns since the B pillar camera was not fully calibrated and the rear camera was not calibrated at all. The latter appeared to be related to my bike rack which I removed prior to calibration. I find it interesting that FSD worked with the rear camera not even calibrated.

 

[jebinc]

Yup, that's exactly the reason.

I think that Tesla is adding all the new "Data Acquisition Units" aka "Beta Testers" so that when Dojo finally does come online, they have copious amounts of data for it to drink like a frat boy with a beer bong.

If it is really capable of the performance they're quoting, the current fleet won't be able to keep it fed. Which is why I think it's a great idea for them to be stashing all that data for when it finally comes alive.

It'll really be exciting when it does... we should finally hit the business end of the exponential growth graph.

I imagine they also need the time to properly label and categorize the footage to aid in training, too. Having huge piles of data that are all labeled, categorized, and ready to digest should really help the learning process.

But my primary reason for driving an extensive area around my town isn't just data acquisition, it's to track rate of improvement.

@Phlier @diplomat33 And when is DoJo supposed to come on line? “Two weeks,” or “soon,” I forget which!

 

[Drrobmiller]

So I want to retract what I said earlier about pressure on wheel, I stand corrected . I initialy wrote....
"You MUST , MUST, have your hands FIRMLY on the wheel and be ready to react in a moments notice."....

....looks like I'm wrong pertaining to the 90 degree turns disengaging. I now understand that you have to let your palms "rest" on the wheel while the computer does its stuff. Seems to be doing a little dance back and forth while calculating the 90 degree turn. Im use to a slow rotation of the wheel but it appears thats not how it works.

So it looks like I was causing the disengagements on the turns by holding the wheel to tight, thinking that it wasnt completing the turn etc.
I was also worried that I would get dinked by not having enough pressure on the wheel. 2 strikes your out?

So sorry about that. BTW, how are these yoke steering wheels dealing with this?. Seems easier to let the wheel graze against your palms as its doing its incremental dance, it has 360 degrees.

Anyway, looks like there's a learning curve with fsd beta like there was a learning curve for the safety test.

Better drive this afternoon.

 

[Phlier]

And when is DoJo supposed to come on line? “Two weeks,” or “soon,” I forget which!

Yes.