Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[tivoboy]

Was a little rough when I went up north recently because the speed limit on the expressway for a good portion is 75 so I was just sitting in the slow lane doing 80 getting passed by everyone. But I guess I always have the option of manually driving so I'll take it for now but I hope as time goes on they change it.

Has anyone tested can one turn OFF the FSD beta in settings for some period of time and get back to regular EAP/AP and allow the car to drive on highways at above 80 mph? and then of course, turn the FSD Beta back on in settings and pick-up where we left off?

 

[Z_Lynx]

The FSD visualization while driving manually locked up for me for four or five blocks in town today. At a stoplight that had just turned green, the enhanced display froze - yellow lines, green lights, cars visualized, all locked unmoving on the screen. I don't recall that happening before or anyone describing the screen locking up.

This is a two lane road in town that is only occasionally driven using FSD. Speed limit happens to mysteriously change from 25 to a non-existent 30 mph going south at one cross street and displays the correct 25 mph traveling north for the length of the road.

 

[CharleyBC]

The FSD visualization while driving manually locked up for me for four or five blocks in town today. At a stoplight that had just turned green, the enhanced display froze - yellow lines, green lights, cars visualized, all locked unmoving on the screen. I don't recall that happening before or anyone describing the screen locking up.

This is a two lane road in town that is only occasionally driven using FSD. Speed limit happens to mysteriously change from 25 to a non-existent 30 mph going south at one cross street and displays the correct 25 mph traveling north for the length of the road.

I've had this happen a few times pre-FSD, so it's not a new phenomenon--maybe just more colorful now. In one case it was stuck for about ten minutes, then suddenly started working of its own accord. In another it persisted until I got to my destination, and was then normal when I got back in the car to go home. I imagine a reboot would do the trick too.

 

[Z_Lynx]

Thanks for the info. It was pretty surprising to me. I wonder if it would have affected FSD if I had it engaged.

 

[thewishmaster]

The FSD visualization while driving manually locked up for me for four or five blocks in town today. At a stoplight that had just turned green, the enhanced display froze - yellow lines, green lights, cars visualized, all locked unmoving on the screen. I don't recall that happening before or anyone describing the screen locking up.

This is a two lane road in town that is only occasionally driven using FSD. Speed limit happens to mysteriously change from 25 to a non-existent 30 mph going south at one cross street and displays the correct 25 mph traveling north for the length of the road.

Mine does this once in a while, with or without FSD engaged. Last time FSD appeared to stay engaged while the visuals froze. I took over since I couldn't tell what it was thinking

 

[Oil Freedom]

There have been some good postings about FSD Beta reacting (or not) to live and dead animals on the road. Happily these two coyotes from the other night were quite alive. However, if the car was aware of them, it didn't react -- possibly because they were still too far ahead and were quickly clearing out of my path.

I have no idea if they were visualized on the touchscreen. Probably not though. Someone was walking their very large dog during the day, and for a moment the dog was visualized as something the size of a tiny purse dog before vanishing. It was pretty funny to see the giant dog disrespected into snack size!

 

[EVNow]

I'm not worried by this and see it as a good sign that they're closely monitoring real-world results and reacting as quickly as possible.

Tesla does loads of automated testing before releasing the software (including beta versions), but there's nothing as weird, unique, or unpredictable as the real world. That's always going to be the ultimate test.

So beta testers are "automated"?

The idea is to keep adding stuff to automated tests so that the build that come out (and get tested automatically) are good - good enough for human testers. Its all about efficiency.

Repeatedly finding bugs that need immediate fixing before going out to wider beta tester audience is not a sign of success..

 

[Oil Freedom]

The idea is to keep adding stuff to automated tests so that the build that come out (and get tested automatically) are good - good enough for human testers. Its all about efficiency.

Of course, automate whatever you can. That's obvious.

Repeatedly finding bugs that need immediate fixing before going out to wider beta tester audience is not a sign of success..

Whatever the reason for an issue, I'd rather they fix it more quickly than not -- which is what happened here. Given the complexity of what they are doing, there are abound to be unforeseen issues. Their slower roll-outs help mitigate this risk.

 

[dandrewk]

The idea is to keep adding stuff to automated tests so that the build that come out (and get tested automatically) are good - good enough for human testers. Its all about efficiency.

Repeatedly finding bugs that need immediate fixing before going out to wider beta tester audience is not a sign of success..

Did you read the rest of my post? This isn't a product that has been out for decades. There are indeed automated tests.... that are ALSO in beta. There are no standards to apply, no "borrowed" technology that can be reverse engineered. There WILL be bugs, many of them embarrassing. That's what beta is all about. If you find it's too disconcerting, then beta (-any- beta) is not for you.

We all know the current state of FSD has a long way to go. Having caught glitches -before- it gets pushed to several thousand users is a very positive sign on the road to success. It shows Tesla has enough data to catch these things early on and not repeat the 10.3 cluster.

Besides, NO promises about the next version have been made, only estimates. The .7 was never even a full beta release.

 

[drtimhill]

Its a bit disconcerting that almost every release had to have new builds because of issues. They need better automated tests.

hmmm .. automated tests to automate testing an automated car???

 

[Phlier]

Not sure how credible "database corruption for opting out" is. The actual problem may have been more process / data handling related than actual DB corruption.

I thought the wink at the end of my sarcastic "database corruption" post was enough, but apparently some guys did take it seriously, which is totally my fault.

The post where I mentioned database corruption caused by people opting out was just a tongue in cheek jab at @jebinc , and was NOT to be taken seriously at all.

My apologies for causing some guys distress!

 

[Phlier]

@coreylista @aronth5 @MP3Mike @Phlier - I think there’s a problem with the driver sensors. I have received multiple red wheel of death alerts while driving with both hands on the wheel making small movements to prove I’m there, and looking forward at the road. I’m alone in the car and phone is in the charging dock, darkscreened. I’ve taken snapshots each time and even sent an FSDbeta email because I cannot figure out why the screaming “Take control immediately” alert. Most often it happens driving to work and I’ve wondered if it’s because I’m facing the sun and it doesn’t “see” me well in the car; an AI facial recognition problem?

What’s the blue tint/overlay? I haven’t seen it. Not sure if I missed it or didn’t receive it. I’m in MSLR refresh and before in AP, the tickler was a this white glow above the car avatar behind the steering wheel. I haven’t seen that since FSD.

From what I understand, there are at least two scenarios that can cause the screaming alert and the red wheel with the "TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY" text.

1. If you ignore the "please apply slight turning force" nags too many times.

2. If FSD encounters a situation where it is unable to safely navigate at the moment.

Number 2 can be caused by many different things... cameras failing, FSD being unable to effectively label its environment, hardware failure, software crash, etc. etc.

So you might have a situation that occurs on your drive where FSD is just giving up and giving you back control. In fact, you can check to see if that is the case... If you get numerous "apply slight turning force" nags that you don't respond to, then yeah, it is because the system is throwing you in jail for not paying attention. But if you're getting the "TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY" text, alarm scream, and red wheel of death without receiving any prior "nags," then FSD is handing control back over to you because it can't (in its opinion) keep operating the vehicle safely.

If you have found an area where it consistently is handing control back over to you because it doesn't know what to do (rather than because you've been ignoring nags), this is definitely a place where you should be pressing the "Report" icon every time it does it; they need to know of areas where FSD just becomes so clueless it hands the car back to you.

Edit to add: Also, if you have the TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY alert, alarm, red wheel due to ignoring nags, you won't be able to engage FSD for the rest of the drive; this is known as "autopilot jail." However, if you get this type of disconnect due to FSD not being able to safely navigate that particular area, you'll be able to engage FSD after you get through the problem area (assuming you don't have some sort of hardware/software issue that caused the disconnect).

That's one way you can also determine whether or not you got disconnected due to ignored nags or an area where FSD just couldn't figure things out.

 

[EVNow]

Did you read the rest of my post? This isn't a product that has been out for decades. There are indeed automated tests.... that are ALSO in beta. There are no standards to apply, no "borrowed" technology that can be reverse engineered. There WILL be bugs, many of them embarrassing. That's what beta is all about. If you find it's too disconcerting, then beta (-any- beta) is not for you.

What makes you think I didn't ?

Idea of automated tests is to eliminate regressions. Ofcourse 100% elimination is not possible - but you want to get close. If you are repeatedly getting hit by regressions (thats what all these rebuilds are for ...) - and you can only find it quickly when you roll out to a few hundred employees, but not before, then they do not have adequate number of tests or variations of internal tests - automated or not.

Afterall 10.3 had a problem with power saving mode interfering with FSD. You don't need to roll out to hundreds to find this out - but a few basic tests on power saving mode. Infact Elon said at that time they will test that from now on. Duh. But more importantly - did they think what other tests they should include ? I guess not ...

Nothing to do with how new the technology is. Its just basic software engineering.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1452729138758963203

 

[dandrewk]

What makes you think I didn't ?

Idea of automated tests is to eliminate regressions. Ofcourse 100% elimination is not possible - but you want to get close. If you are repeatedly getting hit by regressions (thats what all these rebuilds are for ...) - and you can only find it quickly when you roll out to a few hundred employees, but not before, then they do not have adequate number of tests or variations of internal tests - automated or not.

Afterall 10.3 had a problem with power saving mode interfering with FSD. You don't need to roll out to hundreds to find this out - but a few basic tests on power saving mode. Infact Elon said at that time they will test that from now on. Duh. But more importantly - did they think what other tests they should include ? I guess not ...

Nothing to do with how new the technology is. Its just basic software engineering.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1452729138758963203

... and you just proved my point. I'm not sure what yours is.

You use the issues around 10.3 as an example. Tesla pushed it out, had immediate issues, pulled it back and then immediately issued a fix. Flash forward four whole weeks. There are reports of a new release of 10.5 being pushed in 36.8.7. But wait, now there's 36.8.8. You ASSUMED it was because Tesla screwed up... again... Then you become "disconcerted" about innuendo that a) never happened and b) was the direct result of faulty testing software. Wow. I can only assume you work in the industry and have direct knowledge as to how automated driving systems are designed and implemented.

This has EVERYTHING to do with new technology, and it is NOT "basic software engineering". Oh... if only it were that simple.

 

[tivoboy]

I send in a fair amount of video reports. I also send in a fair amount of beta feedback BUG reports (I’m still not sure if this is helping inform the video uploads) .. but there are clearly areas where whatever TEAM or AI is analyzing the videos must be seeing the same issue in the wild, either same place or same situation. It would be really helpful for the regression testing if Tesla could provide SOME feedback to a user who reports, the tag, location and issue that was flagged and possibly corrected. In a normal world this is exactly how one would test and regression test the prior bugs submitted and hopefully, corrected. I know for a fact that my locations real problem areas I upload each time even though I know I’ve submitted it prior. I want them to know it continues to be a problem (although, WITHIN a single build I’m not really expecting it to improve) so it shouldn’t be too hard for Tesla Dojo to send back to a user (or the car) the location of where the prior negative issues were. It could be a location list load straight to the car, encouraging the user to retrace the steps or revisit the location that caused the prior problem or issue? Otherwise, we’re all really just stumbling around driving around sending uploads (some do some don’t) and not purposely going back to retest the most pressing issues. I know I do it somewhat, but getting some feedback from Dojo (or whatever system they are using) would really help accelerate the solutioning I think.

 

[EVNow]

This has EVERYTHING to do with new technology, and it is NOT "basic software engineering". Oh... if only it were that simple.

Nothing is simple. But proper software engineering is needed to avoid these kinds of issues. Not sure what your background is - but I'm neither new to Tesla, nor to software engineering. I know what I'm talking about. My last post on this subject - lets agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Phlier]

I send in a fair amount of video reports. I also send in a fair amount of beta feedback BUG reports (I’m still not sure if this is helping inform the video uploads) .. but there are clearly areas where whatever TEAM or AI is analyzing the videos must be seeing the same issue in the wild, either same place or same situation. It would be really helpful for the regression testing if Tesla could provide SOME feedback to a user who reports, the tag, location and issue that was flagged and possibly corrected. In a normal world this is exactly how one would test and regression test the prior bugs submitted and hopefully, corrected. I know for a fact that my locations real problem areas I upload each time even though I know I’ve submitted it prior. I want them to know it continues to be a problem (although, WITHIN a single build I’m not really expecting it to improve) so it shouldn’t be too hard for Tesla Dojo to send back to a user (or the car) the location of where the prior negative issues where. It could be a location list load straight to the car, encouraging the user to retrace the steps or revisit the location that caused the prior problem or issue? Otherwise, we’re all really just stumbling around driving around sending uploads (some do some don’t) and not purposely going back to retest the most pressing issues. I know I do it somewhat, but getting some feedback from Dojo (or whatever system they are using) would really help accelerate the solutioning I think.

Exactly!

Maybe at some point we'll get some feedback, as the tools they're using to develop the system mature.

Not only is Tesla developing the FSD system, but they're also developing the tools used to develop FSD... gotta make the screwdrivers to drive the screws!

I'm sure that you know this, but there are quite a few people here that have absolutely no idea how software is developed, so please don't take this as a condescending reply. And I'm not expert, by any means.

But yes, having some sort of acknowledgement would be very helpful. At the least, they could send out an "OK, we got that video, no need to keep sending it," if for no other reason than to reduce the workload on how many video clips they have to process.

You gotta think that they're working on something like that?

 

[EVNow]

Not only is Tesla developing the FSD system, but they're also developing the tools used to develop FSD... gotta make the screwdrivers to drive the screws!

Yes - but not to be confused with simple customer feedback / bug tracking system. Plenty of 3rd party software available for that - and they are probably already some. For whatever reason they don't want to spend the effort to let people log bugs and track them to completion like a large number of other tech companies do.

 

[Mardak]

Here's the updated confirmation and checkbox in "FSD Beta 10.5 2021.36.8.8"

Cabin Camera is used to detect driver attentiveness while FSD Beta is in-use to provide you with audible alerts, reminding you to keep your eyes on the road.​

[x] By enabling FSD Beta, I consent to Tesla's collection of VIN-associated image data from the vehicle's external cameras and Cabin Camera in the occurrence of a serious safety risk or a safety event like a collision.​

​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1462888717010436097

 

[spokey]

@coreylista @aronth5 @MP3Mike @Phlier - I think there’s a problem with the driver sensors. I have received multiple red wheel of death alerts while driving with both hands on the wheel making small movements to prove I’m there, and looking forward at the road. I’m alone in the car and phone is in the charging dock, darkscreened. I’ve taken snapshots each time and even sent an FSDbeta email because I cannot figure out why the screaming “Take control immediately” alert. Most often it happens driving to work and I’ve wondered if it’s because I’m facing the sun and it doesn’t “see” me well in the car; an AI facial recognition problem?

What’s the blue tint/overlay? I haven’t seen it. Not sure if I missed it or didn’t receive it. I’m in MSLR refresh and before in AP, the tickler was a this white glow above the car avatar behind the steering wheel. I haven’t seen that since FSD.

Maybe a bad description. Mine is an MY. But I'm pretty sure (at least I think I am) that if I don't respond to the small black nag, at least a portion of the screen gets this bluish haze.. I'll have to purposely not respond maybe tomorrow to confirm this.