Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[tivoboy]

Late afternoon drive lots of shadows on the road and lots of phantom slowing. On back roads with no lines or faded lines, car several times jerked the wheel left and went into the opposite lane. On very narrow road with yellow center line car stayed in the center of the road ( which is what I would have done) but kept stopping or slowing, we were headed East, the sun was low in the sky to the west, the only thing I can think is the car saw its own shadow and got scared. As in " its afraid of its own shadow"

I can concur with ALL of this X2. Although I will say I had very similar experiences when NOT heading into the Sun, heading away from it and heading South where the Sun would have been to the right at this time of day and year. It’s just sad.

 

[flyhighboi20]

Stop sign experiences seem to be all over the board. I had it stop right where it theoretically should with a stop sign that is arguably too far from the intersection, but this was in a low speed subdivision. I also had it behave just like previous versions at another stop sign that is on a higher speed marked road. Others have indicated that it stops way before signs, and in one case someone indicated that it didn't get stopped until it was encroaching upon the crossing road.

My experience (at least with .3.1 and .4) has been if the stop sign is not mapped it stops very late and all depends on how fast you are going, at 25 it stops just fine, at 45 it stops pretty hard and late and at 60 it blows through it (this includes stop signs that have flash red lights). Seems to be a matter of the cameras being able to see far enough and the car being able to react in time. I have not tested this on 10.5 yet but I would guess it hasn't improved (if I am correct about it being the camera detection of the stop sign). Mapped stop signs it seems for me that it usually approaches them way too slow, then stops, then creeps, then I hit the accelerator. Beta is good for me if there are no cars around, I am just not one to let it be a pain for other drivers so it fails more intersections than it passes (generally turning at stop signs) if other cars are around.

 

[tivoboy]

Stop sign experiences seem to be all over the board. I had it stop right where it theoretically should with a stop sign that is arguably too far from the intersection, but this was in a low speed subdivision. I also had it behave just like previous versions at another stop sign that is on a higher speed marked road. Others have indicated that it stops way before signs, and in one case someone indicated that it didn't get stopped until it was encroaching upon the crossing road.

I had this as well, and its VERY frustrating and annoying. The car literally BRAKED, not even REGEN and came to a HARD stop ~20 feet from the stop sign. There wasn’t even a white line far out, RR crossing, ppl Xing, nothing, it just felt come to hard stop. The cars behind wanted to kill me. The woman behind my was shaking her fist, I half thought someone was going to get out of their car and smash my window with a tire iron. Same thing happened at a GREEN LIGHT for no reason. Car came to a COMPLETE stop, at the white line, when the lights were GREEN. I saw the lights were green in the UI, the car could see them as green and it came to a complete stop.

 

[EVNow]

Car came to a COMPLETE stop, at the white line, when the lights were GREEN. I saw the lights were green in the UI, the car could see them as green and it came to a complete stop.

Car thinks there is a stop sign there ? Check the map.

 

[vanjwilson]

My first 10.5 drive left me with the following observations:

Good:

• Stays to the right of unmarked roads much better than previous versions (opposite of @vanjwilson here).
• ...

On the way home this evening, going through my neighborhood with wide streets and lots of speed humps, it did much better than it did this morning going through a neighborhood on the back way to my gym. (That area had much narrower streets.)

Stayed on the right half of the unmarked road most of the time, except a couple of times where it veered left to go around cars parked on the street--then it took a while for it to get back right. Perhaps it's because the steering wheel is less jerky in general with this version?

Slowed down sooner for the road humps, too. Maybe more regenerative braking than brakes.

 

[tivoboy]

Car thinks there is a stop sign there ? Check the map.

Here is the street. It’s not really an intersection I think the lights are just for the school crossing. Car stopped about where the RED arrow tip is, yellow circled areas are where the light trees are. I think there is another in the middle of the lane above. Nobody was in the crosswalk. No flashing, nothing.

 

[Twiglett]

first 10.5 drive started much better down the local unmarked streets, its road positioning was so much better than 10.4
it still does the odd thing where it treats yields like stop signs or a corner with a side road coming in gets treated like a 3way stop.
This makes progress very slow because stops take much longer than the should do.
Actually I think stop signs with no traffic are slower than with traffic.

 

[jebinc]

I can sum up 10.5 in two words
Totally, Useless.

I would have used three words by putting an F word in between but I figured why not just be efficient.

Wow, just wow.

** At this point I‘m going to reach out to Tesla beta and see if they want to check if there is something wrong with my car, that the car can’t figure out on it’s own, or that their sensors or calibration can’t detect deficiencies or problems that would yield this type of failed result. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and try and verify.

Glad to have gotten out after 10.4. Who needs this aggregation?! Might get back in around v11 or v12 next year. Good luck, all!

 

[EVNow]

Glad to have gotten out after 10.4. Who needs this aggregation?! Might get back in around v11 or v12 next year. Good luck, all!

Oh c'mmon - admit it. You are missing all the fun.

 

[jebinc]

Oh c'mmon - admit it. You are missing all the fun.

@EVNow I had expected problems, sure, but I didn’t expect subsequent multiple releases that were pretty much more of the same. While some things improved, others regressed. For me, the “net” experience over three releases was like stirring a a pot of shite soup. Will live vicariously through you all for the next six-12 months or so. Nice tweet, BTW. I replied!

 

[thewishmaster]

I had this as well, and its VERY frustrating and annoying. The car literally BRAKED, not even REGEN and came to a HARD stop ~20 feet from the stop sign. There wasn’t even a white line far out, RR crossing, ppl Xing, nothing, it just felt come to hard stop. The cars behind wanted to kill me. The woman behind my was shaking her fist, I half thought someone was going to get out of their car and smash my window with a tire iron. Same thing happened at a GREEN LIGHT for no reason. Car came to a COMPLETE stop, at the white line, when the lights were GREEN. I saw the lights were green in the UI, the car could see them as green and it came to a complete stop.

Make sure to hit the snapshot every time you override at that intersection. I did that for a few weeks with one and they finally fixed it. Unfortunately I have run into 2 more intersections that are treated improperly, 1 on 10.4 (stops on green) and 1 on 10.5 earlier today (treats as a stop sign despite a red light). In the second case I suspect it doesn't understand where the stopline is supposed to be, and tries to treat it as if it's already in the intersection if you engage FSD beta from the proper stopline

 

[EVNow]

Here is the street. It’s not really an intersection I think the lights are just for the school crossing. Car stopped about where the RED arrow tip is, yellow circled areas are where the light trees are. I think there is another in the middle of the lane above. Nobody was in the crosswalk. No flashing, nothing.


View attachment 736615

Make sure to hit the snapshot every time you override at that intersection. I did that for a few weeks with one and they finally fixed it.

Was the issue happening consistently and now it doesn't happen at all ? I think these kinds of issues / fixes are map related. BTW, what was showing in the visualization at these places ? Anything obviously wrong ... ?

If its the map - I wonder how do they fix it. Afterall they don't send the new map version only once a year or so.

See this discussion ...

FD Beta : TomTom Map, Roundabouts and the Speedlimit

In TomTom looks like "right turn" is missing. Correct it is TomTom. I couldn't find a web browser interface for TomTom. Perhaps others know of one. I tried Google maps and OSM (via OSRM OpenStreetMap Routing with Open Source Routing Machine ) From: Shurtleff Ave, Napa, CA 94559 To: 132 Soscol...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[thewishmaster]

Was the issue happening consistently and now it doesn't happen at all ? I think these kinds of issues / fixes are map related.

If its the map - I wonder how do they fix it. Afterall they don't send the new map version only once a year or so.

See this discussion ...

Green mentioned on twitter they send various map patches in between releases and especially in between actual base map updates. Not sure what they contain, but likely info on lanes, traffic control devices, etc that can all impact the quality of the decision-making by the car

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I had this as well, and its VERY frustrating and annoying. The car literally BRAKED, not even REGEN and came to a HARD stop ~20 feet from the stop sign. There wasn’t even a white line far out, RR crossing, ppl Xing, nothing, it just felt come to hard stop. The cars behind wanted to kill me. The woman behind my was shaking her fist, I half thought someone was going to get out of their car and smash my window with a tire iron. Same thing happened at a GREEN LIGHT for no reason. Car came to a COMPLETE stop, at the white line, when the lights were GREEN. I saw the lights were green in the UI, the car could see them as green and it came to a complete stop.

Do you have an accelerator and a way to disengage if necessary? Or did those disappear in 10.5 too? No need to brake early. Just press the accelerator to get through it, possibly while disengaging.

 

[tivoboy]

Was the issue happening consistently and now it doesn't happen at all ? I think these kinds of issues / fixes are map related. BTW, what was showing in the visualization at these places ? Anything obviously wrong ... ?

If its the map - I wonder how do they fix it. Afterall they don't send the new map version only once a year or so.

See this discussion ...

FD Beta : TomTom Map, Roundabouts and the Speedlimit

In TomTom looks like "right turn" is missing. Correct it is TomTom. I couldn't find a web browser interface for TomTom. Perhaps others know of one. I tried Google maps and OSM (via OSRM OpenStreetMap Routing with Open Source Routing Machine ) From: Shurtleff Ave, Napa, CA 94559 To: 132 Soscol...

teslamotorsclub.com

I hadn’t actually done this road before there was a lot of traffic on my test route, so I took this simple road. The only odd thing in the visualizations was as I said, the cat was SEEING GREEN lights.

 

[tivoboy]

Do you have an accelerator and a way to disengage if necessary? Or did those disappear in 10.5 too? No need to brake early. Just press the accelerator to get through it, possibly while disengaging.

What does this even mean? Was it supposed to be sarcastic or something..since when I translate it back to Russian it usually gets lost. I’m pretty good with humor but sarcasm is harder for me.

 

[tivoboy]

Make sure to hit the snapshot every time you override at that intersection. I did that for a few weeks with one and they finally fixed it. Unfortunately I have run into 2 more intersections that are treated improperly, 1 on 10.4 (stops on green) and 1 on 10.5 earlier today (treats as a stop sign despite a red light). In the second case I suspect it doesn't understand where the stopline is supposed to be, and tries to treat it as if it's already in the intersection if you engage FSD beta from the proper stopline

EVERY time, I do and I sent a bunch of increasingly NASTY bug reports… at one point I think I MIGHT have even said “what is this s..t” but hopefully, I didn’t actually.

On another note. I noticed that my 10.5 FSD release notes said that one had THREE disengagements before it would revoke FSD, but I’ve read that some people say It’s only TWO. Are there different thresholds for different folks, cars, drivers? Does more chances mean you’re a WORSE driver or a BETTER driver?

 

[Ben W]

First drive impressions today with 10.5. Overall not substantially different from 10.4, although I was using it on mostly different streets. Some highlights:

- Got completely lost trying to get out of an easy parking lot; started driving across marked lines and around in circles. Finally gave up and disabled.
- Often slowed to a complete stop (and stayed stopped) when it had the unambiguous right of way. Happened on turns, freeway onramps, roundabouts. Had to kick-start many times. (On the 'assertive' setting.)
- A couple times tried to make left turns from straight-only lanes, and also once tried to go straight from a left-turn-only lane.
- Failed to exit a vanishing lane on a surface street, marked prominently with cones, and almost ran into a gore point.
- Took a freeway onramp at quite high speed into stopped traffic, with no attempt to slow down. I had to disable and slam on the brakes or we would have ended up at 70mph on the shoulder.
- Failed to stop at a prominent "Stop Behind White Line" sign, and almost ended up stopped on train tracks. Had to disable and back up.
- Improvement: no phantom braking at an underpass that almost always caused phantom braking with 10.4!

Looking forward to trying it out on some my usual routes in the next few days.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

First couple drives with 10.5 - the best improvement is that it does a much better job of staying to the right on unmarked roads. It did get startled by something to the right a few times and veered left (no pedestrians/cyclists/anything in sight), but the default behavior has been much better. Remaining annoyances are still there:
* Veering left before making a right turn a solid 50 feet ahead of the intersection (though it did start to point itself to the right as it approached the stop sign). Happened a couple times. No cars coming the other way so I just let it do its thing.
* Abrupt stops before the stop line if there is a pedestrian on either side of the street (happened once with someone on the opposite side, once on the same side). I don't mind if it stops a little short, but it needs to plan for it better. It did stop well a few other times.
* Crawling through intersections - not "creeping for visibility", but maintaining a very very slow pace through the entire intersection once it has decided to go.
* Not taking its turn assertively enough at stop signs - I almost don't mind this one, but combined with the point above, it's hard to gauge how much to press the accelerator if I need to nudge it. Twice I let go too soon because I thought I made my point, and the car decelerated rapidly to its preferred pace instead.

EDIT: another snapshot I sent was where it stopped completely at a stop sign and didn't appear to want to move even after I pressed the accelerator - seemed content to stop if I let go. Ended up pushing it all the way through the turn. It drove under the speed limit for some time before it finally remembered it was on a 25mph street.

I’m seeing pretty much the exact same things you pointed out. Phantom braking is still pretty bad on CERTAIN roads I travel. Others are fine. I wish it would at least drive the speed limit on unmarked roads. The 26-30mph speed when the road is marked 40-45 will not make folks behind me happy. I use the accelerator to override. Car actually seems to stay farther right when overriding, which I’m ok with.

 

[mhan00]

What does this even mean? Was it supposed to be sarcastic or something..since when I translate it back to Russian it usually gets lost. I’m pretty good with humor but sarcasm is harder for me.

it means that you’re driving. You should be able to feel the car braking when it shouldn’t be and hit the go pedal yourself. Tesla told us the Beta isn’t ready and that we are driving and we should be taking over when needed, and that can be anytime. Why would you let it piss people off enough that you were scared someone would use physical violence?