Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[asterothe]

I read, further back on this thread I think, that currently the only signs Tesla reads are speed-limit, stop, and yield.

I think it uses map data for lane direction. That's how the nav shows you which lane, or lanes, you need to be in when you're following the turn-by-turn directions manually. You could try testing this by setting destinations that would require a left or a right turn at that intersection, and then driving up to it with FSD Beta off. If the "next turn" directions indicate that you can be in either the turn or the middle lane, that would confirm that it's map data and it's not updated in your car yet.

I also think they periodically push new map data to every car, but it could be a while before this new traffic pattern shows up in your car.

Thanks. This is very concerning though. They should override map info if there's a forced line change.

 

[EVNow]

Thanks. This is very concerning though. They should override map info if there's a forced line change.

"concerning" ? More like a feature yet to be implemented (along with so many others).

 

[asterothe]

"concerning" ? More like a feature yet to be implemented (along with so many others).

It should have been higher in the list.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It should have been higher in the list.

Seeing as they haven't consistently mastered stopping or going yet, or steering, in the most basic situations, it's not clear that where this request is on the list really matters, since it's obviously going to be below those items.

 

[EVNow]

Seeing as they haven't consistently mastered stopping or going yet, or steering, in the most basic situations, it's not clear that where this request is on the list really matters, since it's obviously going to be below those items.

I'm wondering whether the great hesitancy, including jerking of the wheel when turning from a stop - but not when turning when moving - is a result of something we haven't talked much before.

When the car is standing still - does it take more time to figure out the speed of approaching vehicles than when the car is moving ? We know the way they figure out the speed using vision is by estimating the distance moved for a given time period of time. To get the speed to the accuracy needed - they need to wait a little longer so that the car moves more. This is esp. true of vehicles approaching from left and right at a distance because the angle of those vehicles to the car doesn't change that much when the cars are far.

If Tesla is moving - then the change in angle (or image position) is greater given a particular length of time. So, it is probably faster for the car to calculate the position and speed of vehicles when the car itself is moving.

Ofcourse, this explanation doesn't account for 10 seconds it takes the car to get going from a stop (esp. when both sides are empty).

 

[Mardak]

We know the way they figure out the speed using vision is by estimating the distance moved for a given time period of time

Given that the 10.5 visualizations don't show temporal memory of moving objects, I'm guessing FSD Beta 11 will introduce the memory aspect to that prediction which should also help with cross-traffic attributes such as speed and parked-ness to better predict when to yield or go.

 

[Tam]

...radar...

If the garbage can is plastic, I am not sure the radar would pick it up.

Even if the radar picks that up, it's programmed to ignore stationary obstacles so I am not sure it would help in this scenario.

I think LIDAR would help.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

Hope you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving.

TL/DR – Red Wheel of Death in FSD Beta – lose all AP functions, turn it off and you’ll get AP only, no NOA.

On a recent 600mi trip the Red Wheel of Death came up and knocked out all AP functions of FSD Beta. This was the only warning I received on the trip. The FSD Beta screen stayed same, but no TACC, AP or NOA. Apparently it did not like the overpass on the onramp to PA turnpike. It had no problem with it when I came off the same ramp at Breezewood. I went through the toll booth, pulled to the side, put it in park and then resumed trip, nope still no functions for you. Found a pull off on highway, put in park again, turned off Navigate, got out of car closed the door and then got back in. Still no FSD Beta functions. Screen still remained FSD Beta even though I was on a highway, which was interesting to see. Normally it switches to NOA on it’s own when you hit a highway and then back to FSD Beta when you exit highway. The Screen was no different on the highway than FSD Beta screen around town. I then went to AP screen and turned off FSD Beta. AP screen now showed on highway with the two blue lines. No NOA capability though. Reached a Supercharger and charged up. Turned FSD Beta back on and still no FSD Beta capability or NOA. Reached my destination and did a reboot. Later that evening I turned FSD Beta back on, screen came up but no functionality. Still no NOA either. During trips that evening the screen would switch back and forth from the AP screen to the FSD Beta screen while driving on back roads but still no functions, which was odd to see the screen cutting in and out of FSD Beta as you are driving. Next morning everything was back to normal after it had a good sleep through the night. There was no wifi connection at this location, if it did anything with Tesla it had to have been done through the network.

I did hit the camera button when it freaked out and gave the red wheel of death. Something for the tesla code warriors to look at. Return trip home with FSD Beta was fine. Oh, tunnels now stay in NOA when on highway, they don’t drop to AP when you have FSD Beta turned on. It did struggle with the back mountain roads around the greater Pittsburgh region. Many times hitting or overrunning the double yellow. Concerning when a work truck on those narrow back roads is coming at you and has those wide mirrors and wide wheel wells, dually. Didn’t have problems with seeing over blind hills, i.e., the old phantom braking hot spots, had lots of intermittent slowing though. Did slow down most of the time hitting sharp curves, several times it went in a little fast though, just making sure you’re paying attention. Did miss a left turn even though it called it out and showed it. Also missed the right turn in the two lanes for the on ramp even though it showed it, decided it wanted to take a bite out of the barriers straight ahead, uh no, not today. Too many times it did not turn on the blinker when making exits off highway or turns. Sometimes it would other times not.

I wish the fall back when FSD Beta gets tangled up, was back to normal NOA. Almost had a bad one when it didn’t slow for a sharp exit on the highway, had to jump on the brakes and keep the car from going off the road in the curve, that was some good Talladega. Opps. You forget when you have been using NOA for so many years, that AP alone (which FSD fall back puts you in) isn’t going to do that. It doesn’t take exists. Gets the blood flowing. Everybody awake out there.

So if you get the Red Wheel of death, just go to the screen and switch off beta, you’ll get AP back, but no NOA, or you can just drive manually, ughhh, painful.

Stay safe and keep testing. Check is in the mail or even better, free supercharging being added to your account for being a tester. LoL. Have a Teslarific day.

This has happened to me, and generally doing a reboot of the MCU seems to fix it. It actually surprised me that this worked, as I assumed the issue was with the AP computer. But, nonetheless, it worked.

 

[colettimj]

My take on FSD, especially when I compare it to AP on highways, is that it just isn't predictable.

I know how AP will handle highways situations (for the most part), but I have no idea if FSD will handle a turn amazingly well or if it will pull halfway through and stop dead. My hope is that Tesla will get FSD to a point where local street driving, excluding turns, becomes predictable; no phantom turn signals, no slowdowns/braking for no apparent reason, no attempts to drive around a car stopped at a red light.

 

[Canefan456]

Sorry for the NOOB questions but I'm new to FSD Beta (got it yesterday) and I'm just wanting to make sure I understand a key difference. It seems like the Navigate on Autopilot setting has no effect when on city streets with the new FSD Beta (10.5) engaged with a double tap of the stalk, i.e. it behaves the same whether NOA is turned on or off. On the highway, the behavior is as before, i.e a double tap on the stalk engages AP and only if I engage NOA will the car execute auto lane changes and take exit ramps. Do I have that right? Is there anything different at all with how FSD behaves on the Freeway with FSD Beta? I do notice that the visualization is showing brake lights.

 

[Harriscott]

Sorry for the NOOB questions but I'm new to FSD Beta (got it yesterday) and I'm just wanting to make sure I understand a key difference. It seems like the Navigate on Autopilot setting has no effect when on city streets with the new FSD Beta (10.5) engaged with a double tap of the stalk, i.e. it behaves the same whether NOA is turned on or off. On the highway, the behavior is as before, i.e a double tap on the stalk engages AP and only if I engage NOA will the car execute auto lane changes and take exit ramps. Do I have that right? Is there anything different at all with how FSD behaves on the Freeway with FSD Beta? I do notice that the visualization is showing brake lights.

Yes, FSD ignores that. Interesting quirk. I have NOA enabled at the start of every trip (in the "customize NOA" settings), it appears you do not.

 

[Canefan456]

Yes, FSD ignores that. Interesting quirk. I have NOA enabled at the start of every trip (in the "customize NOA" settings), it appears you do not.

That's correct. I turned off that setting because I spend a lot of time on the interstate in and around Atlanta during high traffic times, and I found myself disabling NOA more often than not because I wanted to control the lane changes while still on AP. I pretty much only use FSD for longer trips where the traffic is a little sparser.

 

[Harriscott]

Oh! I should turn it off too, next time it gets annoying. I went through Atlanta a couple days ago and it kept second-guessing me about the HOV2+ lane.

 

[FSDtester#1]

My drives have been a little better on 10.5, except for 1 thing Phantom braking.
That has gotten much worse. I know there has some back and forth over what causes it, but I can confirm that my street which is a mile
leading up to my neighborhood I turn in to is filled with trees that overhang the street. During the day for that 1 mile I will get 5 - 8 phantom brakes only
on that street, as it is loaded with shadows on the street. At night I get maybe 1 or 2. So I am convinced it is shadows that FSD can't figure out what they are and if it should slow down. I am sure they aren't the only thing, but they definitely contribute to the problem.

 

[old pilot]

Drove today in normal FSD normal mode, dry roads some shadows on road. On a short trip had usual phantom slowing and car moving left to make a right turn. I've notices since changing from 10.4 to 10.5 on two lane roads, before encountering a speed limit sign, the default speed is always 25 mph.

 

[JulienW]

Anthropomorphism:

Today I believe Beta had a mental meltdown. Was coming to my first right and car was too fast. The intersection was an island divided with another Tesla stoped at the light waiting. My car started braking late and it started passing the turn. It then started turning like it wanted to go head on with the other Tesla on the other side of the island. I grabbed the wheel and hard turned so it would make the turn and then TACC full locked up the brakes and stopped me ass out in busy traffic. This is a perfect example of why I want TOTAL control when I take over. After that FSD lost all confidence and was a complete nervous Nillie and failed at everything. I pulled over a second and had a pep talk to let Beta collect its feelings. Beta still could not get back on the horse and ride successfully.

I have scheduled a session with an esteemed Beta psychiatrist for today and hope she and Beta can work it out. If not may need some time in an institution and maybe even a lobotomy.

Wish us luck.

 

[thewishmaster]

More 10.5 being overly cautious to a toxic degree - this morning it was crossing an intersection, saw a pedestrian waiting in the median, swerved right as it approached the median, swerved back to the left after it passed the perceived danger. Yet whenever I see a car with an open door and a pedestrian standing next to it, or digging in the car, it doesn't change its behavior as early as I would prefer (thus I typically disengage). "Inconsistent" seems about right. I wonder if we'll get v11 this week, or will it another 10.x build...

 

[generalmilk]

Interesting. I did experience the similar mental meltdowns of the beta. Maybe it does have feelings. Maybe it feels so bad and guilty after each and every failure it experienced in its short lifetime. And this is from a born handicapped nearsighted poor baby.

I’m hugging my car now. It’s ok, it’s all gonna be better.

 

[generalmilk]

More 10.5 being overly cautious to a toxic degree - this morning it was crossing an intersection, saw a pedestrian waiting in the median, swerved right as it approached the median, swerved back to the left after it passed the perceived danger. Yet whenever I see a car with an open door and a pedestrian standing next to it, or digging in the car, it doesn't change its behavior as early as I would prefer (thus I typically disengage). "Inconsistent" seems about right. I wonder if we'll get v11 this week, or will it another 10.x build...

Same here, it does not give enough space to a car with open door and sometimes half a person in the car “digging”. I even confirmed on the screen with later case that it failed to detect the person.

 

[EVNow]

Same here, it does not give enough space to a car with open door and sometimes half a person in the car “digging”. I even confirmed on the screen with later case that it failed to detect the person.

Definitely the kinds of issues to report during EA Beta.