Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[EVNow]

One thing I've been noticing is that on unmarked roads when there is a bend, FSD takes a wide turn that puts it in the middle of the road. I think this is an error in the way they assign costs - they should assign a higher cost to crossing the (imaginary) center of the road. Currently FSD takes an easy turn for comfort rather than a sharper turn to keep to the left of the road.

 

[TripleG3]

I most recently saw that when driving towards the sun where maybe FSD Beta lost track of the 2 lead vehicles and/or lane lines. Although it did keep steering fine when I pressed the accelerator without actually taking over steering, so maybe the 10.9 HDR allowed it to stay active for longer but maybe moving object HDR detections isn't happening until FSD Beta 11.

View attachment 763385

Ah, yeah! I was thinking about this when EVNow had suggested cleaning the cameras. While I didn't notice anything that seems like it should have impaired the cameras, perhaps there was just enough fine dust built up that combined with the sun resulted in this kind of behavior. Although I haven't noticed the "TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY" warning in the exact same spots, I do tend to drive the same route at the same time of day and it just happened that the last few weeks seem to have been bad with this error (right after getting 10.9). Coincidentally, it's been sunnier recently and maybe the position of the sun in the sky is just perfect to ruin most of my daily driving (which isn't much).

The other funny thing is that yesterday and today have been much better. Maybe I just needed to complain.

I'm a little hesitant to recalibrate the cameras, as it seems like a little bit of a journey. Certain settings are reset, correct? And it can take many miles of driving to complete? I don't feel like I've read enough positive results with camera recalibration. It all just seems kind of anecdotal.

 

[JulienW]

Have had this problem but got much worse today. When coming up in the outside lefthand turn lane (Green) it will 100% of the time go into the center lane (blue) even forcing other drivers into the inside lefthand turn lane (Red). Today with a lead car and no one (thankfully) in the inside lane it started following/turning the lead car into the outside (Green) lane and then mid way it HARD turned to the left getting all the way into the lefthand turn lane (Red). Then of course it must change lanes 2 times to get into the correct lane which it was in to begin with. Hopefully 10.10's Release Notes cover this.

 

[TripleG3]

One thing I've been noticing is that on unmarked roads when there is a bend, FSD takes a wide turn that puts it in the middle of the road. I think this is an error in the way they assign costs - they should assign a higher cost to crossing the (imaginary) center of the road. Currently FSD takes an easy turn for comfort rather than a sharper turn to keep to the left of the road.

I completely agree with this. I don't fully understand the system, of course, but it seems like the visuals indicate that the edges of the road are recognized, so I don't understand why it's willing to put the car in the middle of the road, well over the "imaginary" center.

There is one turn I drive that is NEVER handled correctly. It's a T intersection where the main traffic is going straight and I need to turn left onto the street as shown below.

This image isn't completely accurate, but it's the general idea. I think FSD starts drifting left even sooner than what's shown here, so it's not as sharp of a turn, but it cuts way over into the middle of the street and then drives DIRECTLY AT the oncoming traffic at the stop sign.

I allowed it to complete the turn once when no other cars were around and it eventually drifts over to the right, but this turn is just horrendous. I rarely ever let FSD even attempt it anymore. I'll usually only check with a new version to see if it's improved.

 

[Mardak]

Just tested newly downloaded NA-2021.44-13555 navigation map data, and it showed the correct position of roads with the blue navigation line, and indeed FSD Beta 10.8.1 was able to correctly make the turn coming from both directions (where previously it turned too early into a parking lot or slowing/swerving too late).

There were still unnecessary lane changes to "follow route," but at least on the one attempt so far, it did not get into a center turn lane too early where previously it would consistently get in and stay while traveling through an intersection just before the desired turn.

 

[flyhighboi20]

I think Tesla made it waaayyy too easy for NHTSA on this one. Yes, you can argue rolling stops are more human-like, thus more "safe" when humans are driving all around an FSD car. NHTSA's hyper-critical stance with anything Tesla made me question their decision to add/keep this driving behavior.

More opportunity for FUD with no or little acknowledgement that Tesla can "fix" it at nearly zero cost with OTA.

I see both sides and understand the issue with the rolling stops from a regulators point of view but then there is also what is to stop them from saying the cars can no longer exceed the speed limit. The same argument would apply that lots of people do it, but it is still breaking the law. That would be especially bad right now with how bad the speed data is on the maps (live in a more rural area). I could see if Tesla didn't give the option and the car always made rolling stops, and I've said previously I think instead of the FSD profiles they should break the settings out so you as the driver could choose that you want it more assertive on changing lanes but not make rolling stops and so on. With us having the option even as it was and the driver still being responsible I don't see why the regulators should be on Tesla about this, if you have it set to do rolling stops and you get a ticket, its on you. My main concern is the speed limit thing I guess the argument could be made for "flow of traffic" but sometimes regulators just want to regulate things whether it makes sense or not.

 

[planetary]

You know, there's a small voice in my head that says all companies working on driving autonomy should strictly program to the letter of the law, allowing for absolutely zero overrides.

This really isn't Tesla's (or Waymo's, etc.) problem. Citizens should take responsibility for the laws of their land. You don't like that rolling stops when perfectly safe are illegal? Go fix it.

 

[powertoold]

10.10 incoming, check your phones!

 

[MP3Mike]

10.10 incoming, check your phones!

What version? Does it include the fix for the seat belt chime recall?

From what I have seen it is supposed to be 2021.44.30.15, which I don't see on TeslaFi, and wouldn't include the recall. So my guess is that they are busy rolling FSD Beta 10.10 into the 2022.4.5 build tree. So it could be a few more days before it gets released to the public.

 

[powertoold]

supposed to be 2021.44.30.15

Yes, it seems to be the "recall" for the dangerous rolling stops that can potentially kill millions per day.

 

[Mardak]

From what I have seen it is supposed to be 2021.44.30.15

Yup. Look like a ~15-20% rollout so far including both FSD Beta 10.8.1 and 10.9.
2021.44.30.15 b917dc TeslaFi.com Firmware Tracker
2021.44.30.15 b917dc625efd Official Tesla Software Update | Teslascope

 

[EVNow]

10.10 incoming, check your phones!

Nothing for me yet - so the trend of me getting releases late continues.

 

[powertoold]

Those of you with 10.9 probably shouldn't update to 10.10

The rolling stop nerf makes the car much more UNnatural in most Stop sign situations, especially when stopping to proceed onto a main road. No one stops at the line in this situation, yet this is what 10.10 does. Humans roll the line, stop beyond the line to peak.

10.10 is disappointing on my first short drive at night.

The care bears and stiflers have accomplished their goal!

 

[powertoold]

Look at this abomination:

 

[aronth5]

Look at this abomination:

I get you don't like the change with the rolling stops removed like most of us but to use "abomination" for a zero disengagement drive is a bit over the top.

 

[AndreP]

I had suspicions that the rolling stops were originally built in because there was some advantage for the system over full stops 100% of the time, either in fluidity of maneuvers or the way these systems use the vehicle's motion to help identify objects/trajectory or something else.

Otherwise it did not make sense to have the vehicles performing an illegal maneuver and not having a toggle to turn them off completely, since turning them off completely would have a noticeable negative impact on performance and cause people to wonder why that's the case.


Won't be surprised if we see more videos showing that rolling stops were being used as a crutch because the object detection in these systems is helped by their own vehicle's motion and they have more trouble identifying things when sitting static -- for example the vehicles being more hesitant at an intersection after coming to a complete stop versus if they were allowed to continue moving.

 

[powertoold]

This needs to be confirmed with more drives, but I think the rolling stop nerf not only applies to Stop signs but ALL stop lines.

For example, on unprotected rights, fsd beta used to slightly roll the line and then peek, but with 10.10, it seems to go to 0-1mph at every stop line before creeping. It's very unnatural.

10.10 also feels less smooth for me as well. It's is more difficult to see in videos.

 

[Yelobird]

Look at this abomination:

You must have different expectations. I didn’t view anything “abomination” rated unless your hunting for click bait. That to me was a well performed loop.

 

[powertoold]

You must have different expectations. I didn’t view anything “abomination” rated unless your hunting for click bait. That to me was a well performed loop.

Ya, it's difficult to see (in a video) how annoying and unnatural it is until you use 10.10.

If you watch whole mars 10.10 videos, you'll start to see how slow it is at Stop signs.

 

[nvx1977]

I don't care about coming to a complete stop vs a rolling stop. I just want the car to get to the stop line faster instead of slowing down 30 ft in advance of the line.